Is GEP really necessary?
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smurf:
that is the parents' problem with pridebut this will result in parents putting their children into those GEP-preparation class...to 'force' their kids to be GEP-ers. can't blame them, its rat race after all.
if u r gifted, you are gifted, why need preparation class?
it need not \"result\" in that way, it is entirely a problem created by the parents, for the parents
nobody forces anyone to take prep class; and MOE discourages that
there are so many prostitutes standing by the roadside, is any one forced to patronise them ? (what other analogy to give ?) -
2ppaamm:
absolutely! I used to play sudoku...after a while, u can tackle the more difficult ones....definitely the same can be said of IQ testing....it is trainable and improve with practice.
While it is impossible to train giftedness, it is totally possible to train test taking strategies and learning how to do IQ test questions.smurf:
but this will result in parents putting their children into those GEP-preparation class...to 'force' their kids to be GEP-ers. can't blame them, its rat race after all.
if u r gifted, you are gifted, why need preparation class?
As long as GA tests are used, it shall be trainable. Try that out with your kid if you do not believe. Buy an IQ book and work through it this year, and observe how his IQ points improve over the year, while he is exactly the same guy with the same giftedness. -
Taking prep classes…
I prefer to use another anology. An O-level grad deciding btw two routes namely jc or poly. Let’s say his results are just average B3 and not particulary strong in either science or arts. Every subject is just decent. His parents are aware that the A-level to uni is a more conventional route vs-a vs poly and decides on the former. The decision taken is without due consideration to the avalable courses offer by polys one of which might offers the student the probability of doing well and qualify for a uni place. What is likely to happen at the end of 2 yrs?
High probability - gg… -
verykiasu2010:
Actually parents are just like that, anything new from MOE automatically becomes a cash cow to the shadow education system.
that is the parents' problem with pridesmurf:
but this will result in parents putting their children into those GEP-preparation class...to 'force' their kids to be GEP-ers. can't blame them, its rat race after all.
if u r gifted, you are gifted, why need preparation class?
it need not \"result\" in that way, it is entirely a problem created by the parents, for the parents
nobody forces anyone to take prep class; and MOE discourages that
there are so many prostitutes standing by the roadside, is any one forced to patronise them ? (what other analogy to give ?)
In our discussion here, we see how this mentality has diluted the quality of GEP students we are getting. For every place one of these gifted-in-disguise take up, one more truly gifted child is robbed of a chance to get a suitable education. This might be ok if the number is small, but unfortunately, this kind of students seem to outnumber the authentically gifted ones. Not only that, because prep'd students outnumber the non-prep'd ones, they form the norm. The non-prep'd gifted students become different, outnumbered and weird. When, in reality, gifted children are supposed to be weird and that's why they are different.
Has the kiasu-ness in parents diluted the usefulness and meaning of GEP? If it is all about just academic and high ability anyway, then why not just go that way? Just lots of academic stuff lor... why must separate them and make them GEP? -
2ppaamm:
Actually parents are just like that, anything new from MOE automatically becomes a cash cow to the shadow education system.
that is the parents' problem with prideverykiasu2010:
[quote=\"smurf\"]but this will result in parents putting their children into those GEP-preparation class...to 'force' their kids to be GEP-ers. can't blame them, its rat race after all.
if u r gifted, you are gifted, why need preparation class?
it need not \"result\" in that way, it is entirely a problem created by the parents, for the parents
nobody forces anyone to take prep class; and MOE discourages that
there are so many prostitutes standing by the roadside, is any one forced to patronise them ? (what other analogy to give ?)
In our discussion here, we see how this mentality has diluted the quality of GEP students we are getting. For every place one of these gifted-in-disguise take up, one more truly gifted child is robbed of a chance to get a suitable education. This might be ok if the number is small, but unfortunately, this kind of students seem to outnumber the authentically gifted ones. Not only that, because prep'd students outnumber the non-prep'd ones, they form the norm. The non-prep'd gifted students become different, outnumbered and weird. When, in reality, gifted children are supposed to be weird and that's why they are different.
Has the kiasu-ness in parents diluted the usefulness and meaning of GEP? If it is all about just academic and high ability anyway, then why not just go that way? Just lots of academic stuff lor... why must separate them and make them GEP?[/quote]the root cause is with the parents
hope more parents are enlightened.
not disagreeing with you
my DS' teachers do not believe he wasn't from GEP, gave me 101 reasons why they think I deny he was from GEP :rotflmao: :rotflmao: -
2ppaamm:
but unfortunately, this kind of students seem to outnumber the authentically gifted ones.
Is this true? Not doubting u, but I totally have no feel of the qty at all. These prep class are like $(4-figure) and only short-term, right? -
2ppaamm:
Can't say that I agree with your statement in blue. The GEP test does not determine your future forever.
What is being taught in GEP that cannot be taught to a bigger group of students who did not make the tests, but are no less smart or academically inclined. Afterall, we know that GEP program is really just academic. There are many, many, many non-GEPers who could easily handle the GEP workload and syllabus. One test determines your future forever. -
jtoh:
One test determines 3 yrs of your life...after PSLE, it's another race altogether! And there'll be many more races that determines yr future!
Can't say that I agree with your statement in blue. The GEP test does not determine your future forever.2ppaamm:
What is being taught in GEP that cannot be taught to a bigger group of students who did not make the tests, but are no less smart or academically inclined. Afterall, we know that GEP program is really just academic. There are many, many, many non-GEPers who could easily handle the GEP workload and syllabus. One test determines your future forever.
Juz my 2cents -
Nebbermind:
One test determines 3 yrs of your life...after PSLE, it's another race altogether! And there'll be many more races that determines yr future!
Can't say that I agree with your statement in blue. The GEP test does not determine your future forever.jtoh:
[quote=\"2ppaamm\"]
What is being taught in GEP that cannot be taught to a bigger group of students who did not make the tests, but are no less smart or academically inclined. Afterall, we know that GEP program is really just academic. There are many, many, many non-GEPers who could easily handle the GEP workload and syllabus. One test determines your future forever.
Juz my 2cents[/quote]why one test determine your future forever or for 3 years ? can always choose not to accept it.
again the root cause is parents. GEP is not the same as NS conscription -
Nebbermind:
Maybe my definition of giftedness is wrong. Firstly, there is already one bunch who are weeded out during the GEP screening tests. Those who are only good in either Math or Eng, and not both. GEP forgets that gifted kids' learning is asynchronous.2ppaamm:
but unfortunately, this kind of students seem to outnumber the authentically gifted ones.
Is this true? Not doubting u, but I totally have no feel of the qty at all. These prep class are like $(4-figure) and only short-term, right?
The above is a sizable group. So in the end, what we have in GEP are those good in BOTH. Most people are gifted in ONE area, rarely in many areas, especially both English and Math, two completely different poles. I venture to guess that the few truly gifted ones to get through are those so good in one area, they manage to cover the weakness in the other area. Or they are so bright, their weak area is also relatively strong. Other than these kids, most have taken the place of those who are strong and excel in either English or Math. Honestly, how many world renowned Mathematicians are also great in language?
Gifted learners are also independent learners, seldom needing the help to grasp advanced and complicated ideas. This differs completely from tuitioned children. I know kids who can solve simultaneous equations, understand how lifts work, figure out the water cycle WITHOUT instruction. Reading novels at 4 with understanding. Hence, I not only cancel out the prep classes, I also cancel out HEAVILY tuitioned kids, especially those needing tuition in BOTH English and Math.
Gifted children take less for granted, asking the hows, whys and whats forever. This irritates the Singapore teachers. Unfortunately, by the time they reach P4, this wonderful skill would have been tamed and removed by our system. But there are a few die-hard ones. I venture to guess these are the ones who are truly different. But guess what. They also will be weeded out by P5 when GEP comes down with a cane for their attitude. Challenging anything (including that wrong spelling on the wall, or why should I go for music class when I already have grade
is considered rude and bad attitude. I am not endorsing this behavior but remember, they are gifted and they have asynchronous development. While they are gifted intellectually, they are still 10 and need to be taught which things can be challenged, which cannot. Do those challenges a few times and sayonara.
They are also motivated and want to do things themselves. At the tests, we cannot really test this. As long as a kid can answer a question, he is better off than a kid who cannot. Many gifted kids try and use interesting methods to solve questions at the tests, while the prep'd ones were already given strategies. Again, more prep class = better.
Those are just a few. I don't have hard numbers. No one will. Observation is all I can offer. And, of course in some ways I am wrong, but in some ways I will be right. I'd rather be sometimes wrong and have a chance to learn than to be always right.
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