MOE Relooking P1 registration - Too much priority to alumni
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3Boys:
Under what category for the school cleaner, if he or she is no longer active in the school, at the time?
While in his sexually productive yrs (20-40), the school teacher would have priority admission for his 7yr old son under P1. if he decides to have a child at 70 yrs old, I applaud his will and spermatozoa.vratenza:
[quote=\"3Boys\"]
Not unless you own the company (or in this case, the school). The school does not belong to you, it belongs to Singaporeans. You contributed a lot? Thank you, so did the teachers, the principal, the school cleaner. I don't think the old school teacher who contributed 20 years of his life to building the school's math department has a priority admission for his son, does he? Why should it be different for alumni?
School cleaners get P1 priority too. I know of one real life example from St Nicks.
Sorry, you try to sidestep with humour.
The point is unanswered, on what basis does one's offspring gain priority admission (or that you should feel that there be) on the basis of his parent's prior efforts, in a public school system. Refer CEO example, if you may, without obfuscating.[/quote]well, glad you can appreciate the humour but I guess you missed the point as well.
School staff are accorded P1 priority on basis of 1) contribution 2) convenience as an active staff member so that the staff's logistic problem of sending and fetching the child to and fro school is alleviated especially when they are of same session. Similar to how some MNCs give priority to staff to their childcare centres they operate in the same building although they open it up to other building tenent staff. It is absolute priority.
Do not forget, these staff are fully paid. They are not performing national service. Once out of the system, their priviledge will be removed. How to account for teachers who transferred to 3 different schools during the stint in public service?
I shall not take on the CEO's example because it is totally skewed to begin with. -
limlim:
[/quote]vacancies can meant total number of places for that year. (unless MOE states it is not)
Oh well.. Officially, there's a cap for all phases except phase 1.mum_sugoku:
[quote=\"dorisp\"]
Just called MOE 2 minutes ago checking if there are any \"cap\" for P2A. The answer is \"NO\" as far as the current system goes.
It is possible for schools to have all Primary 1 places taken up by Phase 2A and nothing left for P2B and P2C.
http://moeuxwp03.moe.gov.sg/press/2004/pr20040611.htm[quote]Allocation of Places
12 Children will be allocated places in the school according to the order of priority spelt out in the Registration Scheme at Annex A . Balloting will be conducted should the number of applications exceed the number of vacancies from Phase 2A(1) to Phase 2C Supplementary.
You called this a cap..? ok.. enuff said.. I guess there is already sufficient examples and a well illustrated one given by dorisp.[/quote]My apology :oops: . I had misinterpreted \"no. of application exceed the no. of vacancies from Phase 2A(1) to Phase...\" as quotas are being set for each phase--including Phase 2A. All along I didn't know that the supposed \"vacancies\" for phase 2A actually refer to the overall places available for P1 (after phase 1).
So ya, I have to concede that indeed there is no cap for phase 2A lor. -
3Boys:
OR are you suggesting we grant priority to the rich...just like the COE system?
None of those preferences for which the parents are accorded ANY kind of priority, EXCEPT, if one were the alumni of the desired school, and distance. And the former trumps the latter, by the way.vratenza:
Now that is out of the way, what are we looking at? PERSONAL PREFERENCE OF PARENTS: want to be near to home, want to be back at alumni, want GEP programme, want co-ed, want mono-gender.
And why? 'coz it feels warm and cozy to the alumni? That's the reason to grant priority? -
vicki:
Ya - 1/3 for 2A, 1/3 for 2B, and 1/3 for 2C?Baby_May_09:
My above post is just explaining the difference between full school and non-full school from what I know. My stand on the topic is that I can see that alumni connection is important like what many had said, but I also feel that there should be a cap ie. 1/3 of the remaining places after phase 1?
Agree too. -
3Boys:
But if they scrap alumni priority, how are they gonna ensure that the political leaders' offspring will always get to study in their (political leaders') alma mater leh? :siam:
No reason and no logic to alumni priority, never has been.vicki:
3Boys - an interesting thought.
I also wonder why? As in the offspring of the other contributors (ex teachers/ cleaners/ admin staff) are not part of 2A but the students are.
Do 'alumni' admit such pple? Or must it only be ex-students? - Now i am wondering. :scratchhead: -
vratenza:
OR are you suggesting we grant priority to the rich...just like the COE system?[/quote]Don't answer a question with a question, or try and obfuscate and distract. I never once said that. Skirting the issue, are you?
None of those preferences for which the parents are accorded ANY kind of priority, EXCEPT, if one were the alumni of the desired school, and distance. And the former trumps the latter, by the way.3Boys:
[quote=\"vratenza\"]
Now that is out of the way, what are we looking at? PERSONAL PREFERENCE OF PARENTS: want to be near to home, want to be back at alumni, want GEP programme, want co-ed, want mono-gender.
And why? 'coz it feels warm and cozy to the alumni? That's the reason to grant priority?
I ask one more time, what is the basis?
And why is the CEO example skewed? You are suggesting hereditary priority on the basis of previous contributions. Give us a better analogy then.... -
vratenza:
So that proves that distance priority is warranted, it says ABSOLUTELY nothing above hereditary priority. ZIP, NADA, ZERO.
well, glad you can appreciate the humour but I guess you missed the point as well.
School staff are accorded P1 priority on basis of 1) contribution 2) convenience as an active staff member so that the staff's logistic problem of sending and fetching the child to and fro school is alleviated especially when they are of same session. Similar to how some MNCs give priority to staff to their childcare centres they operate in the same building although they open it up to other building tenent staff. It is absolute priority.
Do not forget, these staff are fully paid. They are not performing national service. Once out of the system, their priviledge will be removed. How to account for teachers who transferred to 3 different schools during the stint in public service?
I shall not take on the CEO's example because it is totally skewed to begin with.
And so the school head prefect is there by dint of his own effort entirely? The teachers had nothing to do with helping him? His parents didn't pay or his school fees and enrichment classes? He is so 'deserving' of his massive effort that his legacy passes down multiple generations? Not his parents by the way, who benefit, but him and he himself.
How about the student that sleepwalked through school, he be given the same priority? (under the present scheme) -
It took me a fair bit of time to digest the various arguments put forth by many contrubutors in this hot and relatively sensitive topic.
I hve two kids and when my family first enrolled the elder one for admission in yr 2000, we knew that our kids were not be able to get into popular schs as our previous primary schs had ceased to exist. We knew about the alumni priority system but chose to ignore it as we understood the reasons behind it. Eventually, we enrolled the first one in a decent neigbourhood sch. We were satisfied by our decision and both my kids did well to be able to pick a sec sch of their choice. At no times we were envious of the fortunate ones who were able to study at better schs.
I have followed this thread closely and avoid to take a position earlier as i want to understand the arguments put forth by competing parties. Issues such as sentiment, core values, beliefs, distance and fairness were raised and hotly debated. My ds who studied at CHS(sec) frm 2006-2009 recalled his days whereby he had been requested to train the pri cohort in preparation for syf competitions. He was not frm the affailiated pri but was told to help that’s where he began to learn more about the school’s value system.
Obviously i concede that distant alone is an important factor in considering which sch a kid should study and i am a strong believer in this. Another factor such as diversity is also critical. Hence, i understand why many who are against alumni taking presidence over distance.
On the other hand, core values is a strong foundation in nation building. The popular schools with illustrious history emphasis alot in this area. On this occassion, i can emphatise why alumi priority exists. If alumni piority ceases to exists, the likes of schs like ACS,SCGS,MGS,CHS,ST Nicks,ST Andrews ST Magaret, Roysth, NYP,HPP etc may take a radical change at a much later stage. It’s virtually impossible to build back if all these schs lose its character.
On conclusion, the value system provides by the above schools are too valuable to be dismissed altogether. Once lost, the education landscape loses its character. -
really wasting so much ink on the topic
1001 for and against
so what’s next ? -
please enlighten which part of my post highlight that proximity priority is warranted? Maybe you know something that I don't know about myself?
Oh and suddenly out of no where, you create another \"head prefect\" example to obfuscate issues?
Nobody is an island in this world. Nature vs nurture.
If you do not have the genes, no amount of help will get you to the top.
Let's keep to one chain of thread to keep things from being obfuscated further.
I appreciate your hatred for the alumni system. I will not start to dissect where this hatred stems from, but by bringing up terms such as hereditary and monarchy is sensationalism. G6PD, Thalassemia, blood groups are hereditary. Period.
Alumni is simply old boys/girls club. Some may be top scorer, some may be top sportsperson, some may be prefect head, some maybe the truant king, some may have failed or retained, some may have been caught smoking in toilet, some just passed through the school system without even being noticed once......
non of these can deny the fact that they are the product of the school culture and system. Whether they turn out good or bad, they contribute to the overall standing of the school's in society's eyes. If the school produces more distinguished alumni than the mediocre, overall standing in the society will elevate. If the alumni consist mainly of mediocre achievers, the opposite holds true.
Obviously parents being parents will want their children to have the best and how do they assess which school to send their children to? (take out location for time being)
- Past PSLE results.
- Past School Sporting/Arts achievements.
- Word of mouth
- Distinguished alumni
These alumni (old boys/girls) contributed to the school during the time they are in the school via PSLE/Sports/Arts achievements. After they graduate, they CONTINUE to contribute INDIRECTLY by achieving further results/accolade via O' Levels, A'levels, Diploma, Degree, Post Grad degrees, masters, doctorates, sports medals, arts awards. Finally, these old boys/girls are ready to contribute back to society, some became distinguished professionals such as accountants, architects, doctors, lawyers, some became politicians, artist, social workers etc.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.......good PSLE results is nothing if it does not result in a well-rounded individual of good social standing.
Old Boys/Girls are Old Boys/Girls, whether they have not paid a single cent to the alumni fund or contributed in the activities of the alumni is inconsequential except differentiating between P2A1 vs P2A2. As mentioned above, all contributed to the school's standing and popularity in their own way outlined above. 前人种树，后人乘凉。
Alumni are useless? Why should they have priority over other SC? My answers can be found above.
Should a CEO pass the seat to his son? NO. As I mentioned, your analogy is skewed in more ways than one. Just to whet your appetite, CEO is an employee and being paid handsomely to do the job.
I have indulged you in your alumni priority bashing rant, how about you indugle me just a little to share your idea on how is proximity- priority beneficial over alumni-priority? I am not an sociologist, economist or property expert, but I foresee that a proximity priority system will drastically widen the rich-poor disparity favoring the rich in the long run.
I am talking from the alumni side of the fence and you are on the non-alumni side of the fence. We can never agree but we can agree to disagree.
This shall be my last post on this topic. I'll let you have the last word on it.
3Boys:
So that proves that distance priority is warranted, it says ABSOLUTELY nothing above hereditary priority. ZIP, NADA, ZERO.vratenza:
well, glad you can appreciate the humour but I guess you missed the point as well.
School staff are accorded P1 priority on basis of 1) contribution 2) convenience as an active staff member so that the staff's logistic problem of sending and fetching the child to and fro school is alleviated especially when they are of same session. Similar to how some MNCs give priority to staff to their childcare centres they operate in the same building although they open it up to other building tenent staff. It is absolute priority.
Do not forget, these staff are fully paid. They are not performing national service. Once out of the system, their priviledge will be removed. How to account for teachers who transferred to 3 different schools during the stint in public service?
I shall not take on the CEO's example because it is totally skewed to begin with.
And so the school head prefect is there by dint of his own effort entirely? The teachers had nothing to do with helping him? His parents didn't pay or his school fees and enrichment classes? He is so 'deserving' of his massive effort that his legacy passes down multiple generations? Not his parents by the way, who benefit, but him and he himself.
How about the student that sleepwalked through school, he be given the same priority? (under the present scheme)
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