please enlighten which part of my post highlight that proximity priority is warranted? Maybe you know something that I don't know about myself?


Oh and suddenly out of no where, you create another \"head prefect\" example to obfuscate issues?

Nobody is an island in this world. Nature vs nurture.
If you do not have the genes, no amount of help will get you to the top.

Let's keep to one chain of thread to keep things from being obfuscated further.


I appreciate your hatred for the alumni system. I will not start to dissect where this hatred stems from, but by bringing up terms such as hereditary and monarchy is sensationalism. G6PD, Thalassemia, blood groups are hereditary. Period.

Alumni is simply old boys/girls club. Some may be top scorer, some may be top sportsperson, some may be prefect head, some maybe the truant king, some may have failed or retained, some may have been caught smoking in toilet, some just passed through the school system without even being noticed once......
non of these can deny the fact that they are the product of the school culture and system. Whether they turn out good or bad, they contribute to the overall standing of the school's in society's eyes. If the school produces more distinguished alumni than the mediocre, overall standing in the society will elevate. If the alumni consist mainly of mediocre achievers, the opposite holds true.

Obviously parents being parents will want their children to have the best and how do they assess which school to send their children to? (take out location for time being)
- Past PSLE results.
- Past School Sporting/Arts achievements.
- Word of mouth
- Distinguished alumni

These alumni (old boys/girls) contributed to the school during the time they are in the school via PSLE/Sports/Arts achievements. After they graduate, they CONTINUE to contribute INDIRECTLY by achieving further results/accolade via O' Levels, A'levels, Diploma, Degree, Post Grad degrees, masters, doctorates, sports medals, arts awards. Finally, these old boys/girls are ready to contribute back to society, some became distinguished professionals such as accountants, architects, doctors, lawyers, some became politicians, artist, social workers etc.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.......good PSLE results is nothing if it does not result in a well-rounded individual of good social standing.

Old Boys/Girls are Old Boys/Girls, whether they have not paid a single cent to the alumni fund or contributed in the activities of the alumni is inconsequential except differentiating between P2A1 vs P2A2. As mentioned above, all contributed to the school's standing and popularity in their own way outlined above. 前人种树，后人乘凉。

Alumni are useless? Why should they have priority over other SC? My answers can be found above.

Should a CEO pass the seat to his son? NO. As I mentioned, your analogy is skewed in more ways than one. Just to whet your appetite, CEO is an employee and being paid handsomely to do the job.

I have indulged you in your alumni priority bashing rant, how about you indugle me just a little to share your idea on how is proximity- priority beneficial over alumni-priority? I am not an sociologist, economist or property expert, but I foresee that a proximity priority system will drastically widen the rich-poor disparity favoring the rich in the long run.

I am talking from the alumni side of the fence and you are on the non-alumni side of the fence. We can never agree but we can agree to disagree.

This shall be my last post on this topic. I'll let you have the last word on it.

3Boys:

vratenza:

well, glad you can appreciate the humour but I guess you missed the point as well.

School staff are accorded P1 priority on basis of 1) contribution 2) convenience as an active staff member so that the staff's logistic problem of sending and fetching the child to and fro school is alleviated especially when they are of same session. Similar to how some MNCs give priority to staff to their childcare centres they operate in the same building although they open it up to other building tenent staff. It is absolute priority.

Do not forget, these staff are fully paid. They are not performing national service. Once out of the system, their priviledge will be removed. How to account for teachers who transferred to 3 different schools during the stint in public service?

I shall not take on the CEO's example because it is totally skewed to begin with.

So that proves that distance priority is warranted, it says ABSOLUTELY nothing above hereditary priority. ZIP, NADA, ZERO.

And so the school head prefect is there by dint of his own effort entirely? The teachers had nothing to do with helping him? His parents didn't pay or his school fees and enrichment classes? He is so 'deserving' of his massive effort that his legacy passes down multiple generations? Not his parents by the way, who benefit, but him and he himself.

How about the student that sleepwalked through school, he be given the same priority? (under the present scheme)

3Boys:

vratenza:

Now that is out of the way, what are we looking at? PERSONAL PREFERENCE OF PARENTS: want to be near to home, want to be back at alumni, want GEP programme, want co-ed, want mono-gender.

None of those preferences for which the parents are accorded ANY kind of priority, EXCEPT, if one were the alumni of the desired school, and distance. And the former trumps the latter, by the way.

And why? 'coz it feels warm and cozy to the alumni? That's the reason to grant priority?

OR are you suggesting we grant priority to the rich...just like the COE system?

3Boys:

vratenza:

[quote=\"3Boys\"]
Not unless you own the company (or in this case, the school). The school does not belong to you, it belongs to Singaporeans. You contributed a lot? Thank you, so did the teachers, the principal, the school cleaner. I don't think the old school teacher who contributed 20 years of his life to building the school's math department has a priority admission for his son, does he? Why should it be different for alumni?

While in his sexually productive yrs (20-40), the school teacher would have priority admission for his 7yr old son under P1. if he decides to have a child at 70 yrs old, I applaud his will and spermatozoa.

School cleaners get P1 priority too. I know of one real life example from St Nicks.

Under what category for the school cleaner, if he or she is no longer active in the school, at the time?

Sorry, you try to sidestep with humour.

The point is unanswered, on what basis does one's offspring gain priority admission (or that you should feel that there be) on the basis of his parent's prior efforts, in a public school system. Refer CEO example, if you may, without obfuscating.[/quote]well, glad you can appreciate the humour but I guess you missed the point as well.

School staff are accorded P1 priority on basis of 1) contribution 2) convenience as an active staff member so that the staff's logistic problem of sending and fetching the child to and fro school is alleviated especially when they are of same session. Similar to how some MNCs give priority to staff to their childcare centres they operate in the same building although they open it up to other building tenent staff. It is absolute priority.

Do not forget, these staff are fully paid. They are not performing national service. Once out of the system, their priviledge will be removed. How to account for teachers who transferred to 3 different schools during the stint in public service?

I shall not take on the CEO's example because it is totally skewed to begin with.

vicki:

The term paying 'tax' was used to imply that both you n i are contributors to the funding of ALL govt schools to the best of our ability.

10 yrs of basic education is a SC child right and mandatory to boot. The MOE will ensure no child is devoid of chance at education...MCYS will come knocking on your door if you do not register your child for P1. Cannot afford it, there are tons of govt assistance around.

Now that is out of the way, what are we looking at? PERSONAL PREFERENCE OF PARENTS: want to be near to home, want to be back at alumni, want GEP programme, want co-ed, want mono-gender.

vicki:

If you insist on taking the 'tax' meaning as 'you pay more tax' 'you get more benefits' - then i got nothing to say except that then why bother looking at each person's tax brackets - just pay for entry into the schools can liao... Isnt it simpler? :slapshead: :stupid:

i did not insist. I am merely just reiterating my point to you to the other posters who brought up the same point. I do not agree using tax contribution whether differented by tax bracket or not as a basis to demand certain rights to be accorded

3Boys:

vratenza:

----> I will not have guaranteed space for my son in any of the 3 choices anymore. Alumni priority is not my birth right, but I earned it by gaining entry into CHS on my own capability and I should have the distinct priority in letting my son return to my alma mater. If I decide for whatever reason that I do not want my son to go back to CHS, the space can then be released to anyone else interested.

Not unless you own the company (or in this case, the school). The school does not belong to you, it belongs to Singaporeans. You contributed a lot? Thank you, so did the teachers, the principal, the school cleaner. I don't think the old school teacher who contributed 20 years of his life to building the school's math department has a priority admission for his son, does he? Why should it be different for alumni?

While in his sexually productive yrs (20-40), the school teacher would have priority admission for his 7yr old son under P1. if he decides to have a child at 70 yrs old, I applaud his will and spermatozoa.

School cleaners get P1 priority too. I know of one real life example from St Nicks.

3Boys:

vratenza:

[quote=\"vicki\"]so i dont see why 'too much' benefit should be given to anyone group based on personal reasons...

I want to send my child to the nearest school so that he can sleep more and wake up later.

I want to send my child to the nearest school so that don't have to pay the increasing school bus fee.

I want my child to enter this school so that my parents can look after him while I am at work.

I want to my child to enter this school because his tuition center or enrichment class will be nearby and walk over immediately after school.

Any of these are not PERSONAL reasons?

But none of those grant hereditary perpetaul PRIORITY, geddit? There are good reasons to prioritize on distance, and in some cases those poor folk who happen to live near a school are displaced because alumni have come in to grab the slots, and they are forced to do long commutes.[/quote]yup I geddit.
That's why the clamouring to get into the right school.

Really poor folks who are displaced I really feel sorry for them.

MP's letter at MPS will sort out most of these issues.

But those are minority (I can't prove it with statistics and neither can you).

Majority are fighting to get into popular schools because they are popular and they have invested in buying a property that is in close proximity to improve their chances. Look at all the news paper reports and interviews on the disgruntled \"property near good schools\" investor.

3Boys:

vratenza:

the ABSOLUTE PRIORITY at this point in time are the P1. there is no Absolute priority for P2 at this stage...you can argue till the cows come home on the CAP vs no CAP issue, that's not my fight.

And the list I proposed are just reasons why some parents prefer to choose their alumni for their children. Please read the post carefully and refrain from altering my intentions.

Please do not start stirring the hornet's nest on taxpayer money argument. Some one will come along and ask you which tax bracket are you paying this year.....do you really want to go there?

So some parent's preference is sufficient to become a priority then?

Bill Gates did a great job for Microsoft, he loves the place, they love him = His son has a straight shot to the CEO position then?

Just because one had a rollicking time at one's old school, and one PREFERS that his child attends that school, DOES NOT mean that priority should then be granted.

It is a public school system, paid for in taxes by ALL Singaporeans, why should one set of children have priority over another, on the basis of, yes, I say again, SENTIMENT.

once again do not re-interpret my intentions. I am just explaining some reasons that parents have to prefer to send their children back to their alumnus.....I did not say they are accorded the priority based on these reasons.... :slapshead:

If one singaporean PREFERS to have his child study in a popular school, he bought a property <1km paying a premium for this proximity to increase his chance of entering the school. Now we are dealing with 1) Personal PREFERENCE and 2) Financial clout. And if you add PV to the mix, 3) luxury of time

as mentioned in my reply to another poster, whether you pay tax or not is inconsequential compared to the fact that you are SC. Do not bring paying tax into the discussion to fan the flame.
Foreigners, workpass holders, PRs all pay tax....the underpriviledged SC do not pay tax...so what say you?

vicki:

so i dont see why 'too much' benefit should be given to anyone group based on personal reasons...

I want to send my child to the nearest school so that he can sleep more and wake up later.

I want to send my child to the nearest school so that don't have to pay the increasing school bus fee.

I want my child to enter this school so that my parents can look after him while I am at work.

I want to my child to enter this school because his tuition center or enrichment class will be nearby and walk over immediately after school.

Any of these are not PERSONAL reasons?

vicki:

But i wonder - if REALLY there is a cap, would the 'primary' school student then be 'fighting' with the 'secondary' school students? An interesting thought.

Interesting indeed, and that problem will be limited to those few full schools.
No one can predict the future, even the government, so we shall see how it pans out in the next few years....I'm sure there will be a few more rounds of \"tweaking\" in the next couple of years.

vicki:

My mention of tax was to imply that we all 'pay' to the govt (irregardless of tax brackets) - so i dont see why 'too much' benefit should be given to anyone group based on personal reasons such as those you mention...

Foreigners and PRs pay tax too...some even more than the average SC joes...... and I am hazarding a guess tat you support SC first policy right? So it's totally inappropriate to bring it into the picture.

What's next? COE system for P1 registration? :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

vicki:

Yup - you are on the right side of fence with the greener grass...

I am too - if current procedures remain.

So, why am i fighting for the 'under priviledged' for what i feel is the 'common good'?

:? I must be :siao:

Kudos to your altruistic intentions! :salute:

I must admit that looking out for the \"under-priviledged\" is not on my radar.

Partly because my definition of \"under-priviledged\" in the education sense will be more towards those children from broken families who cannot even afford to pay their misc fees, textbooks, uniform and recess meals in the non-popular \"neighbourhood\" schools. That is why i contribute to the ST School Pocket Money fund and children's society on a regular basis.

Pardon me but I really don't feel that those parent's fighting to get their children into popular schools are \"under-privileged\" so to speak.