Q&A - PSLE English

[elkniwt]

ning_akn:

Hi Elkniwt,


May I know have your DD school teacher gives you an explanation on why the answer found in the answer is right?

I was pondering over this question and could not figure out why the answer was written in this manner.

Zack7 mentioned that Unless is always followed by present tense. I beg to differ. Under Conditional Clause Condition 3, we can write the sentence as :
John could not leave the school early unless he had sought the principal's approval.

I have yet to find a supporting to use \"cannot\"...unless...\"had sought\"..

Aks

Hi ning_akn,

This question is from one of the top school exam papers. I think it is a CA1 paper. I don't have the name of the school off-hand. I will post when I check. My dd did this paper at home but was baffled by the answer key.

Thanks for all the help.

Regards.

[ning_akn]

Hi,


I am baffled by the answer key too. Searching for an answer still. Will keep u posted if I can find a satisfactory answer. Nowadays, questions are so tough! Even paper 1 questions have traps. Lately, a friend of mine whose son has always top the level for writing, scored marginal marks for an essay qn set by hong Wen.

[Zack7]

ning_akn:

Hi Elkniwt,


May I know have your DD school teacher gives you an explanation on why the answer found in the answer is right?

I was pondering over this question and could not figure out why the answer was written in this manner.

Zack7 mentioned that Unless is always followed by present tense. I beg to differ. Under Conditional Clause Condition 3, we can write the sentence as :
John could not leave the school early unless he had sought the principal's approval.

I have yet to find a supporting to use \"cannot\"...unless...\"had sought\"..

Aks

hi, your example is not right.

for a sentence structure like yours ,using could not means it is a past action . your sentence structure is talking about John not leaving the school yesterday for example, that means it is cast in stone, it is the past, it has happened. you are not talking about the ability to leave school or not. unless signifies the ability to be able to do it or not in this type of sentences.

essentially, let me provide an analogy for the contrast

john could not run as he was ill yesterday. VS. john cannot run unless he wears his shoes. i.e, you don't use the past tense to signify an ability. you don't say john could not run unless he wore his shoes.

so the right sentence in your example should be

(yesterday) John could not leave the school early as he had not sought the principal's approval.

you don't use unless in this case. it makes your sentence not sound.

or if you want to use unless, then

John cannot leave the school early unless he seeks the principal's approval.

[Zack7]

well i went to check up what you meant by condition clause III


take a look at this website

http://www.edufind.com/english/grammar/if_conditional9.php

the type III that you are talking about is different. it is used with 'would' .

but in the original question of John not being able to go to school, it is type I. as such, 'unless' here always goes with the present tense.

if you want to use type III then it should be

john would have left the school already, unless he had not sought the principal's approval. this emphasizes that john has already left the school, if not for his pesky principal for e.g

but if you notice, this sentence's meaning is totally different from the original sentence of

john cannot leave the school early, unless he seeks the principal's approval.
this emphasizes whether john has sought or not the approval, i.e if he seeks he can leave early, and not if otherwise

[ning_akn]

Zack7,


My example is only to show that unless not necessarily followed by present tense. I m not trying to say that is the answer to the question. In fact, I agree that the answer should b cannot leave… Unless… Seeks in this question. I am just trying to figure out why the answer key states ‘had sought’ instead of seeks. Apart from the possibility that the answer key may be wrong, could it be that it is following some other grammar rules which I am not aware of.

[Zack7]

ning_akn:

Zack7,


My example is only to show that unless not necessarily followed by present tense. I m not trying to say that is the answer to the question. In fact, I agree that the answer should b cannot leave... Unless... Seeks in this question. I am just trying to figure out why the answer key states 'had sought' instead of seeks. Apart from the possibility that the answer key may be wrong, could it be that it is following some other grammar rules which I am not aware of.

well ok, i wasn't specific enough

'unless' in this type of sentences (type 1) always follows the present tense.

but like i said, your example is not correct and hence it does not show why unless is not necessarily followed by the present tense.

and may i add, the answer key is wrong. even if it was grammatically sound, it is an uncommon form of phrasing.

[elkniwt]

Hi ning_akn and Zack7,


The paper is Rosyth 2011 CA1 Qn 67.

Thank you for all the help. We are all learning from each other and supporting each other along the PSLE journey of our kids.

Regards.

[mumworks]

Hi


I am confused for this question :

The chairman of the debate competition advised the two teams to speak (loud/loudly/louder/ more loudly) in the finals as the audience gave feedback that the debaters did not speak loud enough in the semi finals.

The school teacher told my son that both "louder" and "loudly" can be the answer but not "more loudly" ?

Anyone can help ? Thanks

[Zack7]

mumworks:

Hi


I am confused for this question :

The chairman of the debate competition advised the two teams to speak (loud/loudly/louder/ more loudly) in the finals as the audience gave feedback that the debaters did not speak loud enough in the semi finals.

The school teacher told my son that both \"louder\" and \"loudly\" can be the answer but not \"more loudly\" ?

Anyone can help ? Thanks

languages normally don't have right and wrongs. most of it are just conveying different meanings.

in my opinion, loudly/louder/more loudly are all correct.

but if i were to be more picky, i would say loudly is wrong too

because the 2nd part of the sentence implies that a comparative word is needed in the 1st part of the sentence.

so louder and more loudly would be 'more correct'

but if it was up to me, i would use louder

because louder makes the sentence more concise and smooth flowing.

[atutor2001]

mumworks:

Hi

I am confused for this question :

The chairman of the debate competition advised the two teams to speak (loud/loudly/louder/ more loudly) in the finals as the audience gave feedback that the debaters did not speak loud enough in the semi finals.

The school teacher told my son that both \"louder\" and \"loudly\" can be the answer but not \"more loudly\" ?

Anyone can help ? Thanks

Hi mumworks
I am surprised by what the teacher had told your son that \"more loudly\" is not allowed.

\"more loudly\" is an adverb which is used to modify a verb e.g. \"you need to speak (speak is a verb) more loudly\"

\"louder\" is an adjective, which is used to modify a noun e.g. the noise (noise is a noun) is louder now. However, in informal writing, we can use \"louder\" as an adverb to replace \"more loudly\".

Therefore, \"more loudly\" would be the only correct choice if this is an exam question because it is grammatically (formal form) correct and it also conveys the right message.

For English, some managed to get by through \"sound\" to predict the correct grammar. However, when it comes to situations where all options sound ok, we need to fall back on actual grammar background to decide.

There used to be an English expert in this forum, \"Ricully\" who explains really well. Unfortunately he is missing now. You may like to go back to the old posts from him. I always refer back to his posts.