Primary school maths: A vicious circle (from TODAY May 8)
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Chenonceau:
:goodpost: :celebrate:
There is no discussion because we have said so much since 2008 and nothing has changed. Instead we hear excuses after excuses... and the phrase \"parents only are to blame\" implying therefore that MOE has no part to play in a system that it runs and administrates.nansk:
I came to the forum today specifically to read the discussion on this letter! But there is no discussion so far.
nansk:
Good for you! You're smart. What about people like peapot and myself who CAN'T learn the model method no matter how hard we tried? Our kids should be consigned to failure?My dh and I didn't learn by the model method but, when it came time to teach our child, we bought the books needed studied the method and worked out lots of problems so as to master it. Our child is only in P2, so we don't have experience with teaching the new syllabus at higher levels, but we are confident we can simplify the concepts enough to teach them well.
Lastly, you find it normal that we pay taxes to fund MOE and we still have to hunker down to do the teaching ourselves? You may have time and competence. Many parents hold heavy jobs. They have no time. Many also have not the competence. -
Chenonceau:
:goodpost: :goodpost: :please:
There is no discussion because we have said so much since 2008 and nothing has changed. Instead we hear excuses after excuses... and the phrase \"parents only are to blame\" implying therefore that MOE has no part to play in a system that it runs and administrates.nansk:
I came to the forum today specifically to read the discussion on this letter! But there is no discussion so far.
nansk:
Good for you! You're smart. What about people like peapot and myself who CAN'T learn the model method no matter how hard we tried? Our kids should be consigned to failure?My dh and I didn't learn by the model method but, when it came time to teach our child, we bought the books needed studied the method and worked out lots of problems so as to master it. Our child is only in P2, so we don't have experience with teaching the new syllabus at higher levels, but we are confident we can simplify the concepts enough to teach them well.
Lastly, you find it normal that we pay taxes to fund MOE and we still have to hunker down to do the teaching ourselves? You may have time and competence. Many parents hold heavy jobs. They have no time. Many also have not the competence.
Some schs have even advise parents to subscribe to maths magazine and ask parents to go through it with their children at home to help them cope with the syllabus. The irony is i myself am learning through all this magazines to be able to guide them exam method correctly.
Now is no longer about just getting the answers the children must even know and do the correct model drawing correct working to get the answer. Even if there is a easier way to get the same answer marks will be deducted for wrong working or wrong model drawing. -
Idk abt the difficulty lvl of psle math yet, but fr school math exams they test the kids beyond their maturity. I hv been teaching my dd both heuristic n algebra all the way till now she is in p6 with no tuition  i personally think that the problem is not with the methods but with the difficulty level of the tests that it is the norm that more than half of my dd class failed their math from p4-p6. My dd used to get 80-95 for math when she was p1 n p2 with not much help from me… but when she flung her math I hv no choice but to drill her everyday n this is NOT what I want for my life n hers to be… even so, she failed her p6 CA math, I was shocked until I found out that only 1 or 2 kids in her class pass with score of ard 50 only n the rest ? not only they fail but some got single digit score… Very healthy right ? when i finally got to see the test paper I hv to say that the majority of the questions in paper 2 are of the higher order thinking n it was only term1 where the kids hv not even trained to handle such level yet, I know coz i ve been following my kid’s math closely in order to be able to guide her, I wont even give her such question when I have not really train her, for what ? To frustrate her n demotivate her ?
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blessed777:
Idk abt the difficulty lvl of psle math yet, but fr school math exams they test the kids beyond their maturity. I hv been teaching my dd both heuristic n algebra all the way till now she is in p6 with no tuition  i personally think that the problem is not with the methods but with the difficulty level of the tests that it is the norm that more than half of my dd class failed their math from p4-p6. My dd used to get 80-95 for math when she was p1 n p2 with not much help from me.. but when she flung her math I hv no choice but to drill her everyday n this is NOT what I want for my life n hers to be... even so, she failed her p6 CA math, I was shocked until I found out that only 1 or 2 kids in her class pass with score of ard 50 only n the rest ? not only they fail but some got single digit score.. Very healthy right ? when i finally got to see the test paper I hv to say that the majority of the questions in paper 2 are of the higher order thinking n it was only term1 where the kids hv not even trained to handle such level yet, I know coz i ve been following my kid's math closely in order to be able to guide her, I wont even give her such question when I have not really train her, for what ? To frustrate her n demotivate her ?
The problem is they've no choice but to learn the difficult ones.I heard from my friend that her son's teacher has informed her if her son can't get 35% and above,will transfer him to foundation class.
Her son is very weak in Maths,that goes his education!!!! :stupid: :mad:
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My thoughts, tests and exams should test along the average cognitive capabilities of the children of that age group. Set a separate test for higher order thinking stuff to identify the better ones. Why lump everything together and make the average students feel lousy for not being able to do the questions meant for the super bright ones.
Yes only 1 or 2 questions are higher order thinking questions. They are usually in the problem sum sections. Each question carrying 4 marks. If an above average kid (not gifted) cannot do these sums, 8 marks are gone. Children this age, even above average kids do make careless mistakes say maybe 2 (2marks question), and give or take another 2 sums where wrong interpretation or wrong concept may be applied (again assume 2 marks question) so in total 16 marks gone.
Maybe can consider higher math like how we have higher chinese. And these higher math marks are applicable only in schools focusing on math & science. In other secondary schools these marks mean nothing. -
Funz:
Funz i totally agree with u they should have higher maths like in sec school we have additional maths. now problems sums are 5 marks each careless mistake or wrong working even if right answer will end up with 2 to 3marks.My thoughts, tests and exams should test along the average cognitive capabilities of the children of that age group. Set a separate test for higher order thinking stuff to identify the better ones. Why lump everything together and make the average students feel lousy for not being able to do the questions meant for the super bright ones.
Yes only 1 or 2 questions are higher order thinking questions. They are usually in the problem sum sections. Each question carrying 4 marks. If an above average kid (not gifted) cannot do these sums, 8 marks are gone. Children this age, even above average kids do make careless mistakes say maybe 2 (2marks question), and give or take another 2 sums where wrong interpretation or wrong concept may be applied (again assume 2 marks question) so in total 16 marks gone.
Maybe can consider higher math like how we have higher chinese. And these higher math marks are applicable only in schools focusing on math & science. In other secondary schools these marks mean nothing.
lets take 3 x 5(problem sum)=15 like this also lose 15 marks already.
Its not easy being in Pri school nowadays the maths exams are all killers and school tends to make it more difficult then required in the end who suffer the kids and the parents. -
Pris.tang:
They have foundation Maths.The 5 marks questions are killer. :slapshead:
Funz i totally agree with u they should have higher maths like in sec school we have additional maths. now problems sums are 5 marks each careless mistake or wrong working even if right answer will end up with 2 to 3marks.Funz:
My thoughts, tests and exams should test along the average cognitive capabilities of the children of that age group. Set a separate test for higher order thinking stuff to identify the better ones. Why lump everything together and make the average students feel lousy for not being able to do the questions meant for the super bright ones.
Yes only 1 or 2 questions are higher order thinking questions. They are usually in the problem sum sections. Each question carrying 4 marks. If an above average kid (not gifted) cannot do these sums, 8 marks are gone. Children this age, even above average kids do make careless mistakes say maybe 2 (2marks question), and give or take another 2 sums where wrong interpretation or wrong concept may be applied (again assume 2 marks question) so in total 16 marks gone.
Maybe can consider higher math like how we have higher chinese. And these higher math marks are applicable only in schools focusing on math & science. In other secondary schools these marks mean nothing.
lets take 3 x 5(problem sum)=15 like this also lose 15 marks already.
Its not easy being in Pri school nowadays the maths exams are all killers and school tends to make it more difficult then required in the end who suffer the kids and the parents. -
Funz:
Hmmmmm... I still think the issue is not so much the difficulty of the content. It is that content NOT taught is tested. They should come right out and have 2 parts to the paper.My thoughts, tests and exams should test along the average cognitive capabilities of the children of that age group. Set a separate test for higher order thinking stuff to identify the better ones. Why lump everything together and make the average students feel lousy for not being able to do the questions meant for the super bright ones.
Yes only 1 or 2 questions are higher order thinking questions. They are usually in the problem sum sections. Each question carrying 4 marks. If an above average kid (not gifted) cannot do these sums, 8 marks are gone. Children this age, even above average kids do make careless mistakes say maybe 2 (2marks question), and give or take another 2 sums where wrong interpretation or wrong concept may be applied (again assume 2 marks question) so in total 16 marks gone.
Maybe can consider higher math like how we have higher chinese. And these higher math marks are applicable only in schools focusing on math & science. In other secondary schools these marks mean nothing.
Paper 1 = Content/skills/heuristics taught in class.
Paper 2 = Content/skills/heuristics not yet taught.
However this is done, it still only differentiates those who can afford tuition and those who can't. My DS can handle the tough questions provided that he had had prior exposure to the heuristics tested. Without that exposure, he was low ability. WITH the exposure (from me) in P5, his marks climbed to 90+ FAST. He skimmed Onsponge in 1 week and his next exam practice went up to 80+. After 2 more practice papers, it was already at 90+ where before skimming Onsponge, he was failing. -
what i mean is split into 3 sets of maths classes 1 for foundation 1 for normal and 1 for those who can take complicated methods.
Basically the system now is crazy. -
Pris.tang:
They'll tell you not enough teachers,classroom.......at the end still have to learn,no way out,it's a dead end!!!! :mad:what i mean is split into 3 sets of maths classes 1 for foundation 1 for normal and 1 for those who can take complicated methods.
Basically the system now is crazy.
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