Primary school maths: A vicious circle (from TODAY May 8)
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Funz:
Funz i totally agree with u they should have higher maths like in sec school we have additional maths. now problems sums are 5 marks each careless mistake or wrong working even if right answer will end up with 2 to 3marks.My thoughts, tests and exams should test along the average cognitive capabilities of the children of that age group. Set a separate test for higher order thinking stuff to identify the better ones. Why lump everything together and make the average students feel lousy for not being able to do the questions meant for the super bright ones.
Yes only 1 or 2 questions are higher order thinking questions. They are usually in the problem sum sections. Each question carrying 4 marks. If an above average kid (not gifted) cannot do these sums, 8 marks are gone. Children this age, even above average kids do make careless mistakes say maybe 2 (2marks question), and give or take another 2 sums where wrong interpretation or wrong concept may be applied (again assume 2 marks question) so in total 16 marks gone.
Maybe can consider higher math like how we have higher chinese. And these higher math marks are applicable only in schools focusing on math & science. In other secondary schools these marks mean nothing.
lets take 3 x 5(problem sum)=15 like this also lose 15 marks already.
Its not easy being in Pri school nowadays the maths exams are all killers and school tends to make it more difficult then required in the end who suffer the kids and the parents. -
Pris.tang:
They have foundation Maths.The 5 marks questions are killer. :slapshead:
Funz i totally agree with u they should have higher maths like in sec school we have additional maths. now problems sums are 5 marks each careless mistake or wrong working even if right answer will end up with 2 to 3marks.Funz:
My thoughts, tests and exams should test along the average cognitive capabilities of the children of that age group. Set a separate test for higher order thinking stuff to identify the better ones. Why lump everything together and make the average students feel lousy for not being able to do the questions meant for the super bright ones.
Yes only 1 or 2 questions are higher order thinking questions. They are usually in the problem sum sections. Each question carrying 4 marks. If an above average kid (not gifted) cannot do these sums, 8 marks are gone. Children this age, even above average kids do make careless mistakes say maybe 2 (2marks question), and give or take another 2 sums where wrong interpretation or wrong concept may be applied (again assume 2 marks question) so in total 16 marks gone.
Maybe can consider higher math like how we have higher chinese. And these higher math marks are applicable only in schools focusing on math & science. In other secondary schools these marks mean nothing.
lets take 3 x 5(problem sum)=15 like this also lose 15 marks already.
Its not easy being in Pri school nowadays the maths exams are all killers and school tends to make it more difficult then required in the end who suffer the kids and the parents. -
Funz:
Hmmmmm... I still think the issue is not so much the difficulty of the content. It is that content NOT taught is tested. They should come right out and have 2 parts to the paper.My thoughts, tests and exams should test along the average cognitive capabilities of the children of that age group. Set a separate test for higher order thinking stuff to identify the better ones. Why lump everything together and make the average students feel lousy for not being able to do the questions meant for the super bright ones.
Yes only 1 or 2 questions are higher order thinking questions. They are usually in the problem sum sections. Each question carrying 4 marks. If an above average kid (not gifted) cannot do these sums, 8 marks are gone. Children this age, even above average kids do make careless mistakes say maybe 2 (2marks question), and give or take another 2 sums where wrong interpretation or wrong concept may be applied (again assume 2 marks question) so in total 16 marks gone.
Maybe can consider higher math like how we have higher chinese. And these higher math marks are applicable only in schools focusing on math & science. In other secondary schools these marks mean nothing.
Paper 1 = Content/skills/heuristics taught in class.
Paper 2 = Content/skills/heuristics not yet taught.
However this is done, it still only differentiates those who can afford tuition and those who can't. My DS can handle the tough questions provided that he had had prior exposure to the heuristics tested. Without that exposure, he was low ability. WITH the exposure (from me) in P5, his marks climbed to 90+ FAST. He skimmed Onsponge in 1 week and his next exam practice went up to 80+. After 2 more practice papers, it was already at 90+ where before skimming Onsponge, he was failing. -
what i mean is split into 3 sets of maths classes 1 for foundation 1 for normal and 1 for those who can take complicated methods.
Basically the system now is crazy. -
Pris.tang:
They'll tell you not enough teachers,classroom.......at the end still have to learn,no way out,it's a dead end!!!! :mad:what i mean is split into 3 sets of maths classes 1 for foundation 1 for normal and 1 for those who can take complicated methods.
Basically the system now is crazy. -
Chenonceau:
That is what I am saying. Right now, the supposed higher order thinking questions are to sniff out the really gifted ones/the ones who can afford good enrichments. These marks do weigh in on the kids final exam and PSLE. If the school is not meant to teach these questions in depth then do not put them as part of the exam. Do a separate test or exam for those who are identified with the capabilities. And the results of these tests should not be a factor in Secondary school admission unless the student is applying for schools like School of Math & Science or the likes. Just like how higher chinese is useless unless applying for certain secondary schools.
Hmmmmm... I still think the issue is not so much the difficulty of the content. It is that content NOT taught is tested. They should come right out and have 2 parts to the paper.Funz:
My thoughts, tests and exams should test along the average cognitive capabilities of the children of that age group. Set a separate test for higher order thinking stuff to identify the better ones. Why lump everything together and make the average students feel lousy for not being able to do the questions meant for the super bright ones.
Yes only 1 or 2 questions are higher order thinking questions. They are usually in the problem sum sections. Each question carrying 4 marks. If an above average kid (not gifted) cannot do these sums, 8 marks are gone. Children this age, even above average kids do make careless mistakes say maybe 2 (2marks question), and give or take another 2 sums where wrong interpretation or wrong concept may be applied (again assume 2 marks question) so in total 16 marks gone.
Maybe can consider higher math like how we have higher chinese. And these higher math marks are applicable only in schools focusing on math & science. In other secondary schools these marks mean nothing.
Paper 1 = Content/skills/heuristics taught in class.
Paper 2 = Content/skills/heuristics not yet taught.
However this is done, it still only differentiates those who can afford tuition and those who can't. My DS can handle the tough questions provided that he had had prior exposure to the heuristics tested. Without that exposure, he was low ability. WITH the exposure (from me) in P5, his marks climbed to 90+ FAST. He skimmed Onsponge in 1 week and his next exam practice went up to 80+. After 2 more practice papers, it was already at 90+ where before skimming Onsponge, he was failing. -
kitty2:
Yes is a dead end for the kids and parents But not for the teachers or school. :rant: :rant:
They'll tell you not enough teachers,classroom.......at the end still have to learn,no way out,it's a dead end!!!! :mad:Pris.tang:
what i mean is split into 3 sets of maths classes 1 for foundation 1 for normal and 1 for those who can take complicated methods.
Basically the system now is crazy. -
Funz:
That is what I am saying. Right now, the supposed higher order thinking questions are to sniff out the really gifted ones/the ones who can afford good enrichments. These marks do weigh in on the kids final exam and PSLE. If the school is not meant to teach these questions in depth then do not put them as part of the exam. Do a separate test or exam for those who are identified with the capabilities. And the results of these tests should not be a factor in Secondary school admission unless the student is applying for schools like School of Math & Science or the likes. Just like how higher chinese is useless unless applying for certain secondary schools.[/quote]Yup. I get you now.
Hmmmmm... I still think the issue is not so much the difficulty of the content. It is that content NOT taught is tested. They should come right out and have 2 parts to the paper.Chenonceau:
[quote=\"Funz\"]My thoughts, tests and exams should test along the average cognitive capabilities of the children of that age group. Set a separate test for higher order thinking stuff to identify the better ones. Why lump everything together and make the average students feel lousy for not being able to do the questions meant for the super bright ones.
Yes only 1 or 2 questions are higher order thinking questions. They are usually in the problem sum sections. Each question carrying 4 marks. If an above average kid (not gifted) cannot do these sums, 8 marks are gone. Children this age, even above average kids do make careless mistakes say maybe 2 (2marks question), and give or take another 2 sums where wrong interpretation or wrong concept may be applied (again assume 2 marks question) so in total 16 marks gone.
Maybe can consider higher math like how we have higher chinese. And these higher math marks are applicable only in schools focusing on math & science. In other secondary schools these marks mean nothing.
Paper 1 = Content/skills/heuristics taught in class.
Paper 2 = Content/skills/heuristics not yet taught.
However this is done, it still only differentiates those who can afford tuition and those who can't. My DS can handle the tough questions provided that he had had prior exposure to the heuristics tested. Without that exposure, he was low ability. WITH the exposure (from me) in P5, his marks climbed to 90+ FAST. He skimmed Onsponge in 1 week and his next exam practice went up to 80+. After 2 more practice papers, it was already at 90+ where before skimming Onsponge, he was failing.
An alternative is to teach better so that all kids with the calibre (no matter with tuition or no) can hit the highs. But I think we know all of MOE's excuses against that.
(1) Not enough Teachers
(2) We expect more of the system than it can deliver.
(3) Textbooks are lousy because MOE decentralized the curriculum to schools. -
Pris.tang:
Yes is a dead end for the kids and parents But not for the teachers or school. :rant: :rant:[/quote] :goodpost: Teachers & tutors are laughing to the bank,charging sky high tuition fee :slapshead:
They'll tell you not enough teachers,classroom.......at the end still have to learn,no way out,it's a dead end!!!! :mad:kitty2:
[quote=\"Pris.tang\"]what i mean is split into 3 sets of maths classes 1 for foundation 1 for normal and 1 for those who can take complicated methods.
Basically the system now is crazy. -
Actually, I agree with most of what nansk said. Dd is in P4, but she doesn't go for tuition in any of the academic subjects. She does ballet and guzhen.
I agreed that learning the model method is quite challenging, but how can we expect our kids to master the model method, if we ourselves give up on trying to learn it. What sort of message are we giving our kids if we say to them \" Ah girl or Ah boy, mummy and daddy don't understand your maths, but die-die you must not only learn it, but must also score 100% for Maths.\" it isn't fair to them.
It isn't fair to expect our kids to sit down and study all day, while we ourselves had the luxury to play, and dream as kids. Yes, we can blame the system, other parents, the whole world ... But at the end of the day, it's up to the individual parents to say \"enough is enough\" and draw the line at where and how much we want to pressure our kids.
Remember, the mood pork hawker may not have a degree, but he can still sell his secret recipient for a million dollars and retire in comfort.
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