Primary school maths: A vicious circle (from TODAY May 8)

[Chenonceau]

jesschan:

I have read so often in this forum that - schools set very high standards in their examinations and test things that are not taught in class such that most of the children in the top class do not do well - and I always wonder is this the norm for most schools in Singapore or is it happening only in elite/popular schools. (I define such schools as those that have limited vacancies at P1 Registration Phase 2C.)

Ah yes... schools which don't do this... will send fewer students to top secondary schools where opportunities for Overseas CIP, university level mentorships etc... are MORE available than in your neighbourhood secondary school. 40% of NYPS makes it past the 25X t-score because it tests beyond AND it also teaches beyond.

At the end of the road, it isn't even schools that over test. It is the PSLE itself and the fact that learning opportunities and resources are disproportionately allocated across schools.

[Mychildren]

coast:

Just sharing too ... a model ruler might help You can get it from Popular (less than $2?) or ask him to check if his school bookshop sells it.

Thanks, coast, will go popular and get one.

[coast]

coast:

Just sharing too ... a model ruler might help You can get it from Popular (less than $2?) or ask him to check if his school bookshop sells it.

Mychildren:

Thanks, coast, will go popular and get one.

You are welcome Hope your DS likes it but I know some upper primary kids stop using it after a while and revert back to freehand or normal ruler. I think the size of the model ruler could be the reason (it's quite big). Do look for it in the \"ruler\" section (where you can find normal rulers, flexi rulers, ...).

My P2 DS likes using it so far and brings it to school every day

[coast]

Chenonceau:

jesschan:

I have read so often in this forum that - schools set very high standards in their examinations and test things that are not taught in class such that most of the children in the top class do not do well - and I always wonder is this the norm for most schools in Singapore or is it happening only in elite/popular schools. (I define such schools as those that have limited vacancies at P1 Registration Phase 2C.)

Ah yes... schools which don't do this... will send fewer students to top secondary schools where opportunities for Overseas CIP, university level mentorships etc... are MORE available than in your neighbourhood secondary school. 40% of NYPS makes it past the 25X t-score because it tests beyond AND it also teaches beyond.

At the end of the road, it isn't even schools that over test. It is the PSLE itself and the fact that learning opportunities and resources are disproportionately allocated across schools.

There are other reasons why they do well ...

1) Many of these students (just like the rest of Singapore) attend enrichment/ tuition outside schools
2) If I am not wrong, the school provides optional enrichment (including academics) classes conducted by outside vendors after school hours
3) There is a big cohort of GEP intake at P3 (I think their GEP cohort is bigger than some other GEP schools). GEP students tend to do better at PSLE

[Nebbermind]

atutor2001:

Yes model is only 1 of the many heuristic approach. However, it is ironical to draw model because if someone can understand the logic/approach, he/she can solve without the models. Why spend time drawing the model? If one does not have the slightest idea of how to solve, drawing the models the wrong way will not help either. There are many ways to draw models but weak students usually only know how to draw simple comparison model of A & B. They can stare at them for the entire duration of the exam and nothing will surface.


The impression given by many teachers and tutors is that drawing model will show us the way to the solution for most problem. To make matter worse, many teachers go to the extent of threatening their students that marks will be deducted if they don't use model. (because they only know how to determine if working is correct or wrong as answer keys used model).

To further complicate matter, many innovative individuals would do their best to apply/promote \"model method\" to all kinds of problem sum, including those that can be easier solved with other methods. A typical example is to represent the value of money in 4 units of $10 notes, with a rectangle divided into 4 rows and 10 columns.

Model concept has been abused. I have experimented with kids who failed miserably using model. Just teach them simple algebraic manipulation and simultaneous equations, they can solve most, if not all, the conventional problem sums by P6.

I think the main problem is that the kids don't try to analyzing the questions and try to solve it. Instead, they try to find a suitable heuristic to fit the qns. Like someone mentioned, the difficult qns can involve a couple or more heuristic...and the kids goes into mental block state. Math is not something u can solve with some standard prescribed steps.

[Edureach]

Every pupil in school takes the same exam so i think is really fair. The entire cohort eventually sit for the same paper so that’s also fair. At the end of the day, capable pupils will still do well.


We can talk and talk in the end the percentage of pupils scoring A* remains constant.

[Nebbermind]

Edureach:

Every pupil in school takes the same exam so i think is really fair. The entire cohort eventually sit for the same paper so that's also fair. At the end of the day, capable pupils will still do well.


We can talk and talk in the end the percentage of pupils scoring A* remains constant.

I think u missed the point.
The issue here is that the qns are far too advanced and many of the kids required alot of external help in order to get these A*.

[Edureach]

Nebbermind:

Edureach:

Every pupil in school takes the same exam so i think is really fair. The entire cohort eventually sit for the same paper so that's also fair. At the end of the day, capable pupils will still do well.


We can talk and talk in the end the percentage of pupils scoring A* remains constant.

I think u missed the point.
The issue here is that the qns are far too advanced and many of the kids required alot of external help in order to get these A*.

External help? That's means they are of A standard and not A*. If so easy to score an A* by temselves, that's means many can be admitted to famous schools. Anw, our stand are different and no need for us to debate.

[jesschan]

Chenonceau:

Ah yes... schools which don't do this... will send fewer students to top secondary schools where opportunities for Overseas CIP, university level mentorships etc... are MORE available than in your neighbourhood secondary school. 40% of NYPS makes it past the 25X t-score because it tests beyond AND it also teaches beyond.

At the end of the road, it isn't even schools that over test. It is the PSLE itself and the fact that learning opportunities and resources are disproportionately allocated across schools.

Oh, so my children's school belongs to the minority group. There were indeed not many in the school who were able to score above 250 in PSLE. Their school has more programs for children who need help and higher ability students are left to explore on their own. The school has its share of good and not-so-good teachers, like all other schools. My children are doing reasonably well in school now and not so stressed up like many of the kids here. So, I shall keep my fingers crossed and hope that they can do well enough in PSLE to get into the better secondary schools. I do agree that there are more opportunities for the students in the better secondary/IP schools.

[Chenonceau]

jesschan:

Chenonceau:

Ah yes... schools which don't do this... will send fewer students to top secondary schools where opportunities for Overseas CIP, university level mentorships etc... are MORE available than in your neighbourhood secondary school. 40% of NYPS makes it past the 25X t-score because it tests beyond AND it also teaches beyond.

At the end of the road, it isn't even schools that over test. It is the PSLE itself and the fact that learning opportunities and resources are disproportionately allocated across schools.

Oh, so my children's school belongs to the minority group. There were indeed not many in the school who were able to score above 250 in PSLE. Their school has more programs for children who need help and higher ability students are left to explore on their own. The school has its share of good and not-so-good teachers, like all other schools. My children are doing reasonably well in school now and not so stressed up like many of the kids here. So, I shall keep my fingers crossed and hope that they can do well enough in PSLE to get into the better secondary schools. I do agree that there are more opportunities for the students in the better secondary/IP schools.

All the best!