Primary school maths: A vicious circle (from TODAY May 8)

[jedamum]

Chenonceau:

LittleLambie:

Hi Chenonceau, can I come too?


DD1-P3, DD2-K1, DS3-N1 next yr.

Registration is closed. But if people pull out, I will get in touch.

Argh!! i missed this! :sad:
Chen, you rejected me for the motivation workshop.....so do place me on the waitlist for this one can? for my K2.
cannot nebbermind then. tq.

[3Boys]

oxyleo:

Hi 3 boys, I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It would be nice to hear your views.

I believe there is nothing majorly wrong with our education system at all.

Can it be improved? Obviously, as with all things in life, yes.

But I would think that whatever proposed solution will need to be resource neutral compared to the present. No point saying we double the number of teachers just like that, its a no-brainer that that will help in an improvement. But we already spent close to $10 billion overall on education in 2011, that's the second highest item after defence, and well ahead of health and transport. Would you sell away your car and give up your wife's medications to send your child for an extra enrichment class? Not me.

Please don't say 'MOE must invest more resources'.....I disagree.

Does it need major surgery? Not till I see that the alternative is sustainable, or for that matter, proven to be better.

[Chenonceau]

jedamum:

Chenonceau:

[quote=\"LittleLambie\"]Hi Chenonceau, can I come too?


DD1-P3, DD2-K1, DS3-N1 next yr.

Registration is closed. But if people pull out, I will get in touch.

Argh!! i missed this! :sad:
Chen, you rejected me for the motivation workshop.....so do place me on the waitlist for this one can? for my K2.
cannot nebbermind then. tq.[/quote]Ummm... cannot lah... :imsorry: Sorry to reject you twice. You have PM.

[3Boys]

Chenonceau:

coast:

I am a firm believer that majority of the kids are intellect equals, plus or minus an insignificant band. Some may be faster or slower in certain areas/ subjects, but in general, given the right environment and nurture, they can excel.

I agree.
http://petunialee.blogspot.com/2012/01/10000-hour-rule-of-practice.html

Actually Chenonceau, your citation of Malcolm Gladwell actually disproves the notion that the majority of people are in the same intellectual band.

\"Their research suggests that once a musician has ENOUGH ability to get to a top music school, the thing that distinguishes one performer from another is how hard he works.\"

Capitals are yours.....

I.e. differentiated on ability first, before hard work.

As one would naturally expect.

And NOW I finally understand where you are coming from.

[Chenonceau]

3Boys:

Chenonceau:

[quote=\"coast\"]
I am a firm believer that majority of the kids are intellect equals, plus or minus an insignificant band. Some may be faster or slower in certain areas/ subjects, but in general, given the right environment and nurture, they can excel.

I agree.
http://petunialee.blogspot.com/2012/01/10000-hour-rule-of-practice.html

Actually Chenonceau, your citation of Malcolm Gladwell actually disproves the notion that the majority of people are in the same intellectual band.

\"Their research suggests that once a musician has ENOUGH ability to get to a top music school, the thing that distinguishes one performer from another is how hard he works.\"

Capitals are yours.....

I.e. differentiated on ability first, before hard work.

As one would naturally expect.

And NOW I finally understand where you are coming from.[/quote]Eh? :?

I have to concede defeat before things go further. I'm tired of arguing the case for improving education. So... I still esteem you and wanna be friends. I just dun feel like engaging right now.

:imsorry:

[oxyleo]

Hi 3 Boys,


Thanks for sharing your views. Your opinion counts too.
But yes, we are not aligned on several fronts.

1) I understand why you believe there isn’t anything majorly wrong with the education system. After all, looking at the accolades and grades our students get, everything looks stellar. We even have others understudying our system, so why would we think there is anything majorly wrong with it? But if the faucet is working and the water jet is flowing strong, it doesn’t mean there aren’t any leaks. If there are barriers to performance levels, which are the only means to determine the sort of access that you can have to first class, business class or economy class public education, I personally think there is a fundamental problem.

2) I’m not sure we are asking for things to just be improved here. If there is a fundamental flaw where some (with smarter parents or better quality tuition) are majorly advantaged over the rest, I think it needs more of a proper review rather than to just improve some things here and there. A review which would hopefully see more honest feedback coming from the educators themselves as well, other than just the parents.

3) You mentioned "we need to be resource neutral". May I ask if that is your own standpoint as a citizen of the country or are you privy to the standpoint of the MOE? Obviously if this is the standpoint of the MOE, then the dialogue doesn’t seem to be an open one anymore, and our voices end here, because if we conclude a leak/ flaw in the system, it would need at the very least human resources to conduct the review. However this would not seem to reflect the sort of engagement that we are expecting from our newly elected government since 2011.

4) You mentioned that you would not sell away your car or give up your wife’s medications or your child’s extra enrichment class. Well good for your wife, and your chosen lifestyle, because those are your personal choices which we should be respectful of and not judge, as we shouldn’t also for those who would sacrifice their car, and sleep, and have cheaper meals to have their child take those lessons and personally coach their children. We each have our own priorities. I gave up a very lucrative career years ago at my prime to take care of my son. Some said it was admirable. Some said it was plain stupid. Well, we all have our priorities.

As a nation, we would have our priorities too, as you said, in terms of how much we want to spend on defence, education, health and so on. But my caution is that our priorities are currently misplaced if we only focus on what is pragmatic and forget that they the way we prioritize our policies and expenditure affect very human lives. We are not an accounting entry. What good would there be to have a country that continues to forge ahead for the next 20 years if we have few citizens who are deeply rooted to their country? If those who make it to the top in our society see those that don’t as being lazy or losers, or slowing them down? We need pragmatism combined with a soul, otherwise we have a nation that is just really pretty to look at from the outside but severely broken on the inside.

[phtthp]

Hi Chenonceau, appreciate if can KIV me for workshop, if others happen to withdraw last minute, or I can wait next round (if arise). I'm keen to join. You've a big heart to initiate and organize this meaningful workshop to help parents. A big Thank you for taking time off your busy schedule, to share with parents your valuable experience you'd gone through. :salute:

[beanbear]

Chenonceau:

beanbear:

Chen, can add one more? I'd love to join in.

:imsorry: Cannot lah babe! :oops: :imsorry: If add you now then everybody wanna add then I'll end up like the Motivation Workshop with a long long long wait list that I need to service for free. I still haven't got through that list yet. If got people pull out I add you ok?

Besides, your DS is in P6 already no?

Yes, pls add me in if people pull out. Maybe I can have priority? - I got 4 kids lah, 4 psle's to go through, DS first one, leh, then DD next year. DS3 P1, DS4, baby - dunno what PSLE will be like then. hopefully banned by then??

[cherryc]

While we are busying discussing in this thread, take a look at another thread : Need some advice for P3 Heuristics maths in the active forum now :


First a mom will approach ksp where to buy books related to heuristics/models and consult whether she should send her kid to tuition center as the kid is not grasping it and not even sure if school teacher is teaching well or even is teaching at all. Then mention that it is not covered in the textbooks . Then she will go ahead and buy the books and teach herself!!

We are seeing this playing out everyday and seriously nobody thinks something is wrong ?

[Chenonceau]

oxyleo:

Hi 3 Boys,


Thanks for sharing your views. Your opinion counts too.
But yes, we are not aligned on several fronts.

1) I understand why you believe there isn't anything majorly wrong with the education system. After all, looking at the accolades and grades our students get, everything looks stellar. We even have others understudying our system, so why would we think there is anything majorly wrong with it? But if the faucet is working and the water jet is flowing strong, it doesn't mean there aren't any leaks. If there are barriers to performance levels, which are the only means to determine the sort of access that you can have to first class, business class or economy class public education, I personally think there is a fundamental problem.

2) I'm not sure we are asking for things to just be improved here. If there is a fundamental flaw where some (with smarter parents or better quality tuition) are majorly advantaged over the rest, I think it needs more of a proper review rather than to just improve some things here and there. A review which would hopefully see more honest feedback coming from the educators themselves as well, other than just the parents.

3) You mentioned \"we need to be resource neutral\". May I ask if that is your own standpoint as a citizen of the country or are you privy to the standpoint of the MOE? Obviously if this is the standpoint of the MOE, then the dialogue doesn't seem to be an open one anymore, and our voices end here, because if we conclude a leak/ flaw in the system, it would need at the very least human resources to conduct the review. However this would not seem to reflect the sort of engagement that we are expecting from our newly elected government since 2011.

4) You mentioned that you would not sell away your car or give up your wife's medications or your child's extra enrichment class. Well good for your wife, and your chosen lifestyle, because those are your personal choices which we should be respectful of and not judge, as we shouldn't also for those who would sacrifice their car, and sleep, and have cheaper meals to have their child take those lessons and personally coach their children. We each have our own priorities. I gave up a very lucrative career years ago at my prime to take care of my son. Some said it was admirable. Some said it was plain stupid. Well, we all have our priorities.

As a nation, we would have our priorities too, as you said, in terms of how much we want to spend on defence, education, health and so on. But my caution is that our priorities are currently misplaced if we only focus on what is pragmatic and forget that they the way we prioritize our policies and expenditure affect very human lives. We are not an accounting entry. What good would there be to have a country that continues to forge ahead for the next 20 years if we have few citizens who are deeply rooted to their country? If those who make it to the top in our society see those that don't as being lazy or losers, or slowing them down? We need pragmatism combined with a soul, otherwise we have a nation that is just really pretty to look at from the outside but severely broken on the inside.

I am too tired to write. But I can applaud and encourage someone else who can write as cogently as this... and speaks my heart. I think we all need encouragement. Thank you!