Primary school maths: A vicious circle (from TODAY May 8)

[resgmom]

firefly38:

My DS2 is FAR from being 'top of the heap', so I really DO NOT need to 'maintain him at the top', as he HAS NEVER BEEN there and WILL NEVER be there.. In fact, his recent SA1 results made my cry .. DS2 was transfered to gor-gor's GEP school last year at P3, and believe me, he has never been given any additional special materials/notes for any single subject (Yes, I was shocked initially, but had to accept the fact).. So, sourcing for good tuition/guidebooks for DS2 has never been our intention to 'maintain him at the top', but merely to prevent him from falling further into the pit..

If one thinks that the school textbooks are lousy, one has free access to unlimited resources from the internet, or one can buy guidebooks to supplement the school materials (which I & most parents have been doing, I believe).. Of course, one can choose NOT to do so, due to some reasons/principles.. Anyway, it is a personal choice, but at least, one HAS a choice.. And, one DOES NOT need to be VERY RICH to afford a few guidebooks or tuition, if one is not so brand-conscious..

Firefly, could you share where have you gotten these resources (e.g. those free, online ones?) Any good Math/Chinese guide books/assessment book to share?

DS is in P5 and his SA1 results are making us worried - we don't have any tuition for him and it's just us family coaching him. Would like to stick with this but I'm having my doubts, it'd be a very sad day if he has to go for tuition (no offense to anyone - he's easily stressed, and really can't take the piles of assessment/tuition) Even though he's in an so called \"above average\" neighborhood school I don't see much additional/useful notes from his school.

Anyway appreciate other parents sharing good resources in Math too. I know about onsponge (the sch's using it) and that's it. But it seems like he does need more targeted practices.

[Mychildren]

resgmom,


You should ask those who had taken PSLE. For math, you need to know in which area your DS is weak in and focus on that area to let your DS practice more. For Math, I did it this way from p1-p4. Train your child in those challenging questions if you want them to score as usually one or two will appear in the exam paper.

As for p5 or p6, you need to check with those that had gone through these before. I've no experience yet. Go to the assessment books thread for more info but more important, you need to flip through the books and target those that your child is especially weak in. No point asking him to repeat doing what he already knows.

Here, we are talking about Math.

<If one thinks that the school textbooks are lousy, one has free access to unlimited resources from the internet, or one can buy guidebooks to supplement the school materials (which I & most parents have been doing, I believe).. Of course, one can choose NOT to do so, due to some reasons/principles.. Anyway, it is a personal choice, but at least, one HAS a choice.. And, one DOES NOT need to be VERY RICH to afford a few guidebooks or tuition, if one is not so brand-conscious...> by firefly

I did that too because school text info is too little especially for Science.

[Chenonceau]

firefly38:

Chenonceau:

[quote=\"firefly38\"] :goodpost:

Hi BeContented, EVERYTHING you said MADE SENSE... :hugs: :salute:

I have not read a good post for a l-o-n-g time.. Thank you for speaking what I have been thinking of, but am not able to express in words... :hi5:

If your child is in GEP... and in NYPS, I don't blame you for being so positive. If your child is top of the heap, as in BeContented's case (and you have money and don't mind to pay for tuition to maintain your child at the top), then I also don't blame you for thinking lousy textbooks are acceptable.

It's different life experiences. Unfortunately, we won't know until the nation next goes to the polls in 2016 whether people like you are in the minority or the majority. Time will tell.

Didn't know agreeing with BeContented would make you sooo MAD... :rotflmao: [/quote] :? Mad? Which part of my post looked angry. I merely pointed out that we have different life experiences and that you have experienced GEP quality and therefore would understandably feel positive.

firefly38:

Yes, my DS1 WAS from GEP, but that was HISTORY.. I nearly forgot about it till you brought it up AGAIN.. It has hardly been mentioned in his Sec Sch, as it is NO BIG DEAL at all to be from GEP (unless you think otherwise).. And, DS1 was NOT from NYPS (don't get mixed up with YOUR vks2010)..

My DS2 is FAR from being 'top of the heap', so I really DO NOT need to 'maintain him at the top', as he HAS NEVER BEEN there and WILL NEVER be there.. In fact, his recent SA1 results made my cry .. DS2 was transfered to gor-gor's GEP school last year at P3, and believe me, he has never been given any additional special materials/notes for any single subject (Yes, I was shocked initially, but had to accept the fact).. So, sourcing for good tuition/guidebooks for DS2 has never been our intention to 'maintain him at the top', but merely to prevent him from falling further into the pit.

At least you have money for tuition. The point about maintaining kids at the top was in response to Becontented who herself wrote that she gave her kids tuition to keep them at the top. Sorry if you misunderstood.

firefly38:

If one thinks that the school textbooks are lousy, one has free access to unlimited resources from the internet, or one can buy guidebooks to supplement the school materials (which I & most parents have been doing, I believe).. Of course, one can choose NOT to do so, due to some reasons/principles.. Anyway, it is a personal choice, but at least, one HAS a choice.. And, one DOES NOT need to be VERY RICH to afford a few guidebooks or tuition, if one is not so brand-conscious..

At least you have money for supplementary materials... and a laptop to access free resources. Laptops don't come cheap and can be a heavy burden on many families.

Why should we have to fork out extra for all these education in Singapore is supposed to be free? Unless MOE comes right out and says that educational opportunities in Singapore should be distributed according to parental access to resources. If that is so... MOE should be upfront.

firefly38:

I am really not good with words, and I feel SO TIRED writing, unlike some who simply LOVE to write l-o-n-g posts and never ever get tired of it.. But I do get tired of reading them, especially when they are repetitive and worse, confrontational in nature.. Peace and Out... :xedfingers:

Now... YOU are obviously mad because you've just slung me a personal attack. I too want peace. This isn't me. It isn't you. We disagree. Is all. Don't get so worked up.

[3Boys]

oxyleo:

I enjoy reading all the varying perspectives. Shows the true diversity of all readers here. May I just ask everyone to think about the one fundamental thing that we are really trying to get to the bottom of here:


Is there or is there not a problem with resources not being equitably allocated across all primary schools belonging to the public domain of education?

Think of it akin to World Hunger. Some devote their entire lives to raising awareness and solving it, some know it's a problem but don't think anything can be done to eradicate it, some watch screen shots of it and flick to another channel because it doesn't involve them, some watch the shots and discuss what to have for lunch today. But at the very least, nobody denies that World Hunger exists.

Are we debating about whether a problem exists or not, or are we debating if doing anything would help the problem, or are we saying it's how you define the problem of World Hunger? It ain't that bad unless it hits like more than x countries?

I think some of us here are saying definitively that we think there is a problem.

We are trying to equate the content delivery level of a mass-education system (i.e MOE) with that of a motivated parent with varied avenues of spending his/her money on enrichment programmes. In that arms race, on a per-capita basis, MOE can never keep up, ever. Nor should they even be allowed to try, lest they bankrupt the system.

The arms race is not us vs the MOE, its us parents against each other. The MOE can try and level the playing field somewhat in providing a good solid grounding for the majority of students, give some additional help for the weaker ones, and stretch the stronger a little. They will never be able to customise programmes for every individual child. Diversity and customisation is available in the private sector, a myriad, which MOE can never hope to completely emulate. This is a GOOD thing!

Now, about resource allocation. In this arms race, what is the better strategy to help the disadvantaged? A block grant to the MOE and say, \"You guys take it all over. Deal with it at all levels, disadvantaged through to super high performer, optimise every single student's teaching.\" You think that's possible? I know of people in home-school programmes in Singapore, where the teacher-student ratio is 1 to 10, and even then its not completely optimal, not by a long shot. Any discussion about further investment is not complete without a hard look at the deliverables and the likelihood of delivering on them, apart from the costs of undertaking that enterprise.

Rather, how about being targeted and providing the disadvantaged with some of the weapons and ammunition to fight this battle? Build up their home environment, give some grants to help them pay for enrichment classes. A shiny iPad given from school to a poor student with an abusive dad and no electricity at home would be of little help.

So is there a problem? If not being perfect is a problem, then yes, there is a problem. If not being totally egalitarian is a problem, then yes, there is a problem. If not being infinitely customisable is a problem, then yes. But lets be reasonable, its a public school system.

I feel one needs to be cool about this and not portray it as some kind of class warfare. I think we all understand that schools have different performance levels, but isn't that expected? Not all parents are equally good either. I don't think I can blame society for my children's shortcomings due to my own inadequacies, so why are we transferring our expectations onto the MOE? Just because I pay taxes?

[Chenonceau]

3Boys:

oxyleo:

I enjoy reading all the varying perspectives. Shows the true diversity of all readers here. May I just ask everyone to think about the one fundamental thing that we are really trying to get to the bottom of here:


Is there or is there not a problem with resources not being equitably allocated across all primary schools belonging to the public domain of education?

Think of it akin to World Hunger. Some devote their entire lives to raising awareness and solving it, some know it's a problem but don't think anything can be done to eradicate it, some watch screen shots of it and flick to another channel because it doesn't involve them, some watch the shots and discuss what to have for lunch today. But at the very least, nobody denies that World Hunger exists.

Are we debating about whether a problem exists or not, or are we debating if doing anything would help the problem, or are we saying it's how you define the problem of World Hunger? It ain't that bad unless it hits like more than x countries?

I think some of us here are saying definitively that we think there is a problem.

We are trying to equate the content delivery level of a mass-education system (i.e MOE) with that of a motivated parent with varied avenues of spending his/her money on enrichment programmes. In that arms race, on a per-capita basis, MOE can never keep up, ever. Nor should they even be allowed to try, lest they bankrupt the system.

The arms race is not us vs the MOE, its us parents against each other. The MOE can try and level the playing field somewhat in providing a good solid grounding for the majority of students, give some additional help for the weaker ones, and stretch the stronger a little. They will never be able to customise programmes for every individual child. Diversity and customisation is available in the private sector, a myriad, which MOE can never hope to completely emulate. This is a GOOD thing!

Now, about resource allocation. In this arms race, what is the better strategy to help the disadvantaged? A block grant to the MOE and say, \"You guys take it all over. Deal with it at all levels, disadvantaged through to super high performer, optimise every single student's teaching.\" You think that's possible? I know of people in home-school programmes in Singapore, where the teacher-student ratio is 1 to 10, and even then its not completely optimal, not by a long shot. Any discussion about further investment is not complete without a hard look at the deliverables and the likelihood of delivering on them, apart from the costs of undertaking that enterprise.

Rather, how about being targeted and providing the disadvantaged with some of the weapons and ammunition to fight this battle? Build up their home environment, give some grants to help them pay for enrichment classes. A shiny iPad given from school to a poor student with an abusive dad and no electricity at home would be of little help.

So is there a problem? If not being perfect is a problem, then yes, there is a problem. If not being totally egalitarian is a problem, then yes, there is a problem. If not being infinitely customisable is a problem, then yes. But lets be reasonable, its a public school system.

I feel one needs to be cool about this and not portray it as some kind of class warfare. I think we all understand that schools have different performance levels, but isn't that expected? Not all parents are equally good either. I don't think I can blame society for my children's shortcomings due to my own inadequacies, so why are we transferring our expectations onto the MOE? Just because I pay taxes?

All I want is more comprehensive textbooks... Not textbooks that have ONE key word in the whole chapter \"muscles\" whilst exams test way more. Either that, or don't make parents waste money buying textbooks. When DS studies, he doesn't even have to LOOK at his textbooks. He looks at free resources I beg from friends... tuition centre books... resources from Amazon... internet.

[Chenonceau]

3Boys:

Chenonceau:

Explanations cannot persuade more than personal experience. There is no explanation MOE can give me that will convince me of things AGAINST what I have experienced in the past 2 years. It remains to be seen if my experience is replicated often enough amongst parents that these issues will turn red hot in 2016.

Chenonceau,
it is not so much whether the experiences are replicated, which I'm sure they are to some degree, but whether the expectations or perspective on those experiences (yours vs others) are replicated, which I suspect is rather less the case. A glass can be half-empty or half-full. Same glass, different view.

It doesn't matter. It still is the numbers in 2016 that count. So... we will see won't we? I could be in the minority, like I said. OR, it could end up like Ministerial Pay and HDB prices... where the govt THOUGHT it was a vocal minority and failed to read the simmering resentment.

We don't at present know.

[Edureach]

All primary school teachers are qualified. The most popular schools do not have a monopoly of teaching talents. You will find good and average teachers in every school.


Here’s where we as parents can fill the gap if we discover that the materials given by an ordinary school is not up to the mark. The choice is ours. At the end of the day, all sit for the common exam. Don’t confuse this issue with another as to how the disadvantaged ones are going to cope. Even if all are given the same resources, the outcome is still influenced by the bell curve. So differentiation is here to stay as academic performance determines secondary school streaming in this instance. A fair start or not is a seperate issue altogether as too many of them harping on this issue alone.

Ther are several routes leading to universities and an IP route though the most direct is unsuitable for most pupils. Every year only 3500 pupils are chosen in fact, approximately 12500 jc students are derived from o-level route. Most will head to polytechnics with significant minority studying at ITES and private schools. Each path is given a fair access to enter universities. Take the most common route-poytechnics, more and more students are enrolled to universities as compare to a decade ago.

So what if your kids are unable to attend an IP school. Just have to do well at O-level and pursue a jc or poly education. Take the top 2 mid-tier jc, namely ACJC and AJC, the success rate to enter local unis is closed to 90% with a slight majority scoring 80 and above points upon perfect score of 90. Really impressive! At polytechnics, approximately 20% has qualified for admission. With an above average of L1R4 of 10 couped with a good cca record, your kids are on the way to study for free. So here we are, many opportunities to move up and ultimately, it depends more on individual kids. For slower learners, ITES are there to train skill workers. Academic route is not for all even if resouces are equal which can never happen. MOE is striving to spread good teachers evenly to all schools.

As parents, we strive the best for our kids. We fill the gap by scourcing for external materials beyond schools’ materials to position our kids. As for the setting of killer papers, it depends much on individual schools. Just like you cannot expect the chinese papers of a mission school with the exception of CHS Pri and ST Nicks pri, to be equal in standards as the SAP pri schools.

The choice and opportunities are ours to develop our kids to realise their full potential. No point blaming the schools on this occassion.

Just treat it as an opportunity to develop and strengthen our kids for future challenges.

God bless.

[Mychildren]

<As parents, we strive the best for our kids. We fill the gap by scourcing for external materials beyond schools' materials to position our kids.> by Edureach


That's what I'm doing now.

[Edureach]

Mychildren:

<As parents, we strive the best for our kids. We fill the gap by scourcing for external materials beyond schools' materials to position our kids.> by Edureach


That's what I'm doing now.

That's the correct attitude!

Blessed are your kids to hve a parent like you.

[Chenonceau]

Edureach:

Mychildren:

<As parents, we strive the best for our kids. We fill the gap by scourcing for external materials beyond schools' materials to position our kids.> by Edureach


That's what I'm doing now.

That's the correct attitude!

Blessed are your kids to hve a parent like you.

Yes... in the new normal, parents are good parents only when they hunker down and teach (or source for materials) in place of the schools. Some may find this acceptable. I do not.

MOE should just close down schools and run an SSATs equivalent testing centre to administer the common exam. Then, parents will just hire tutors or homeschool... or send to TLL. If parents have to do this in place of schools, then what are schools for.