Singapore for Singaporeans?

[Oppsgal]

http://temasektimes.wordpress.com/2012/05/21/pinoy-ft-scolds-singaporeans-you-are-lazy/


Just saw this article, not sure is it true.

But really... :mad:

[verykiasu2010]

lim72:

It depends whether the teachers are local or prc.


So now even 巴刹 is incorrect? So should we embrace Da di for hail a taxi instead of 搭德士 and bo luo mi for 黄梨 also?

怎么你们天天打打杀杀........爸也杀,妈也杀.......

[verykiasu2010]

if we put effort to differentiate proper inklish from sinklish, we should also differentiate proper chinese language from localised dialectised-multi-lingual chinese


巴杀 is from malay word pasar, meaning market. we should use 菜市场

冷汽 is cold air, air conditioner should be 空调 because it regulates the air temperature

when we speak our local Chinese language in Taiwan or HK or PRC, people there won’t understand us totally

and when we don’t make effort to differentiate the right from the wrong, we think the right is the wrong and think our wrong is the right, and becomes arrogant

[limlim]

lim72:

It depends whether the teachers are local or prc.


So now even 巴刹 is incorrect? So should we embrace Da di for hail a taxi instead of 搭德士 and bo luo mi for 黄梨 also?

\"da di\" is their localised short form.. not \"official\" Chinese language I guess. Those terms we don't need to bother.. The \"official\" term is \"chu zu che\" (出租车).

Also, some Northern Mandarin is different from Southern Mandarin also.. Like \"za men\" is more localised form.. we can just stick to \"wo men\" (我们).

We should recognise what is the official or \"correct\" Chinese language, and differentiate from their localised terms (like our \"ba sha\"), and selectively pick the one that is applicable locally and internationally.

Not everything must accept.. just embrace the right one..

[lim72]

This is a problem with some singaporeans, when they travel a lot, they think that they have seen & heard a lot and when I’m talking about local issues, they will bring in the big word, Globalisation. They must have misread the big heading today, ‘When in Spore, act like a Sporean’. Last but not least,.there is no right or wrong in the words that we or others used, the only thing that I can’t say much is that they have 5000years of history but ours is only less than 100.


Try telling the local hawkers or even your parents that the Chinese or Taiwaneses could not understand our Mandarin, they will tell you that this is Singapo leh.

I rest my case here.

[Funz]

Why is it that we can accept that Singlish is not proper English but cannot accept that some of our Chinese terms used is not proper Chinese? Just because the proper terms come from China so we reject them?


Market is 菜市场 in proper Chinese but in Singapore slang it is 巴杀. So if we want to insist that 巴杀 is proper Chinese, in that case, ‘Pasar’ should be the equivalent English term so why do we accept that it should be ‘market’ in English?

We can always have our own localisation of both English and Chinese but we cannot reject what is the correct and proper Chinese and English or for that matter any other languages.

[verykiasu2010]

lim72:

This is a problem with some singaporeans, when they travel a lot, they think that they have seen & heard a lot and when I'm talking about local issues, they will bring in the big word, Globalisation. They must have misread the big heading today, 'When in Spore, act like a Sporean'. Last but not least,.there is no right or wrong in the words that we or others used, the only thing that I can't say much is that they have 5000years of history but ours is only less than 100.


Try telling the local hawkers or even your parents that the Chinese or Taiwaneses could not understand our Mandarin, they will tell you that this is Singapo leh.

I rest my case here.

if you are an ethnic chinese, you are part of the 5000 years even if you deny it or refuse to acknowledge

we can change nationality, citizenship, name, language of communication.....but ethnic root is impossible to change. that is your DNA .... yellow is yellow, no matter how once tries to bleach

agree that local usage is no issue, but no one lives alone, as much as you expect foreigners to know your likes and dislikes and your habits, locals should also know the foreigners' characteristics

communication is two way. one way is no communication - it is an order

and human beings communicate. only orange (once alive thing) does not communicate (see orange thread ... )

[UncleLim]

ChiefKiasu:

I want my children to be Singaporeans who are as proud to be Singaporeans as I used to be, not because of the achievements of our fathers, but of achievements that they create themselves. I want my children to know that they can be world-class and compete with the best, as long as they are willing to put in their heart, sweat and tears.

That would be ideal, Chief. But I have this fear that things are different now.

Like you, I felt tremendously proud and patriotic not so long ago. Every feather in the cap for any Singapore achievement seemed so personal that I will cheer. First in Asia to do this. First in the world to achieve that. I felt like the most fortunate boy in the most favoured country in the world. It did not matter that I lived in a rental HDB flat. I had dreams and Singapore promised me a future.

That Singapore for me is gone. Would I choose to move to another country? No. I will stay. Not because I do not have the means to leave, but because this is still home. Blame it on my Teochew sense of \"rootedness\". But if I had a choice, I would buy a home far away from the part of Singapore which has become the one big tourist attraction and expatriate playground. Yet I have to live near the city centre because of schooling, work and transport considerations.

Like most of my peers in our social strata, I expect my children to do well in school and further their education abroad. I do not see them being as rooted as me. Singapore will just be a home base. I will have to let them go and be a global citizen, lest they find themselves painted into a corner for life choices here like many people I know.

Will that erode their pride in Singapore? I do not know. What will they be proud of ? Singapore Airlines ? Marina Bay Sands ? Orchard Road ? Their alma mater ? Our GDP growth ? Our MRT system ? I think it will be increasingly tough for them to have that sense of loyalty and patriotism. The youth of today has already asked publicly: \"Who am I defending?\"

I am not a bitter Singaporean who has lost my job to a \"Foreign Talent\". (Actually I don't like this term because it suggest the opposite is a \"Local Idiot\".) My family's livelihood is better off with more tourists, expats and immigrants. But I can see many other families suffer and can do nothing but curl up into a ball. They then drive their kids to perform in school, in the hope that they will not suffer the same fate as them. That too might end up as a pipe dream when the ship turns again. Like when it was decided that we transformed our economy into a money and wealth management centre, making redundant an entire generation of engineers who became taxi drivers, private tutors, housing agents, part time forex traders despite their excellent education.

What will Singapore be in 5 to 10 years? Singapore will be doing well. It will become more popular for foreigners to set up shop and live here. I have absolutely no doubt about that. It will be a wonderful place with more attractions, more choice of cuisines, more arts, more culture and more fun. It will be THE CITY to be in Asia. We will be like London, where you can hear a dozen different languages being spoken in just one underground train carriage (or is that already happening here?).

So what do Singaporeans do? Not much. Your property will be worth millions. But if you sell it, you won't be able to afford to buy any other house to live in. Londoners fed up with London move out to the another city. Or move to outside London, eg Guildford and commute for over an hour into Waterloo station by train and telecommute on some days. (Some leave the UK, some to Singapore! ) Where will you move to - Punggol ? Johor ?

[resgmom]

UncleLim:

Will that erode their pride in Singapore? I do not know. What will they be proud of ? Singapore Airlines ? Marina Bay Sands ? Orchard Road ? Their alma mater ? Our GDP growth ? Our MRT system ? I think it will be increasingly tough for them to have that sense of loyalty and patriotism. The youth of today has already asked publicly: \"Who am I defending?\"


I am not a bitter Singaporean who has lost my job to a \"Foreign Talent\". (Actually I don't like this term because it suggest the opposite is a \"Local Idiot\".) My family's livelihood is better off with more tourists, expats and immigrants. But I can see many other families suffer and can do nothing but curl up into a ball. They then drive their kids to perform in school, in the hope that they will not suffer the same fate as them. That too might end up as a pipe dream when the ship turns again. Like when it was decided that we transformed our economy into a money and wealth management centre, making redundant an entire generation of engineers who became taxi drivers, private tutors, housing agents, part time forex traders despite their excellent education.

These resonate with me. When I walk into my alam mater now I could not recognize it nor have much emotional feelings associated with it – it has moved to a swanky \"new\" campus (while back in the days we have old, but very sturdy, wooden chairs/tables. I remember an incident where some old girls, 30 years our senior, visited our classroom and they were so excited to see the same chairs and desks they've used before, in our classrooms! The also relished the same grounds and facilities they've used. The twinkle in their eyes and the excitment they exhibited were unforgetable even to us teenagers at that time), it has become another big magnet for scholars from nearby Asian countries when you hear the different accents, and a playground for the rich foreigners with their elitist daughters who are well educated in their own countries with all the resources in the world, in the first place. The students are no longer the ones upholding one of the “frugal” 校训 when the schools are dishing out IPads/Macbooks to students and almost every student has a smart phone. And the principals no longer stay for 30-40 years.

Again, I'm not saying that we should close off to foreigners and not exposed our children to students from other countries. But frankly this eco-system with elite students from different countries is not \"the world\" and doesn't reflect reality. It's just really sad for me that I could no longer recognise my own secondary school except for the uniform. This lost of identify is not conductive to cultivate a sense of belonging for Singaporean. I guess the govt. really need to balance all these pros and cons and not just focusing on economic gains.

The part about engineers – I have a close friend in middle management at one of the MNC computer firms in Singapore, and HR proposed an entry-level, new grad salary of $2800 when they needed someone. They received 80+ applications for this one position for this entry level, many of them over-qualified. The person they ended up hiring is an Indian SPR who has a Masters degree from NUS, with 4 years of experience back home (they’re just hiring entry level). And he specifically asked for only $2200. My friend, who’s Singaporean, really has no reason to ask HR not to hire him. We’re pushing our bright and brightest away from the engineering industry because the wages are grossly depressed with the influx of FT.

[verykiasu2010]

UncleLim:

ChiefKiasu:

I want my children to be Singaporeans who are as proud to be Singaporeans as I used to be, not because of the achievements of our fathers, but of achievements that they create themselves. I want my children to know that they can be world-class and compete with the best, as long as they are willing to put in their heart, sweat and tears.

That would be ideal, Chief. But I have this fear that things are different now.

Like you, I felt tremendously proud and patriotic not so long ago. Every feather in the cap for any Singapore achievement seemed so personal that I will cheer. First in Asia to do this. First in the world to achieve that. I felt like the most fortunate boy in the most favoured country in the world. It did not matter that I lived in a rental HDB flat. I had dreams and Singapore promised me a future.

That Singapore for me is gone. Would I choose to move to another country? No. I will stay. Not because I do not have the means to leave, but because this is still home. Blame it on my Teochew sense of \"rootedness\". But if I had a choice, I would buy a home far away from the part of Singapore which has become the one big tourist attraction and expatriate playground. Yet I have to live near the city centre because of schooling, work and transport considerations.

Like most of my peers in our social strata, I expect my children to do well in school and further their education abroad. I do not see them being as rooted as me. Singapore will just be a home base. I will have to let them go and be a global citizen, lest they find themselves painted into a corner for life choices here like many people I know.

Will that erode their pride in Singapore? I do not know. What will they be proud of ? Singapore Airlines ? Marina Bay Sands ? Orchard Road ? Their alma mater ? Our GDP growth ? Our MRT system ? I think it will be increasingly tough for them to have that sense of loyalty and patriotism. The youth of today has already asked publicly: \"Who am I defending?\"

I am not a bitter Singaporean who has lost my job to a \"Foreign Talent\". (Actually I don't like this term because it suggest the opposite is a \"Local Idiot\".) My family's livelihood is better off with more tourists, expats and immigrants. But I can see many other families suffer and can do nothing but curl up into a ball. They then drive their kids to perform in school, in the hope that they will not suffer the same fate as them. That too might end up as a pipe dream when the ship turns again. Like when it was decided that we transformed our economy into a money and wealth management centre, making redundant an entire generation of engineers who became taxi drivers, private tutors, housing agents, part time forex traders despite their excellent education.

What will Singapore be in 5 to 10 years? Singapore will be doing well. It will become more popular for foreigners to set up shop and live here. I have absolutely no doubt about that. It will be a wonderful place with more attractions, more choice of cuisines, more arts, more culture and more fun. It will be THE CITY to be in Asia. We will be like London, where you can hear a dozen different languages being spoken in just one underground train carriage (or is that already happening here?).

So what do Singaporeans do? Not much. Your property will be worth millions. But if you sell it, you won't be able to afford to buy any other house to live in. Londoners fed up with London move out to the another city. Or move to outside London, eg Guildford and commute for over an hour into Waterloo station by train and telecommute on some days. (Some leave the UK, some to Singapore! ) Where will you move to - Punggol ? Johor ?

actually, all those 'first in the world' achievements have been overly trumpeted to create a feel good factor, to create a nationalistic pride, which by itself is nothing bad; but, like they said, it is \"oversold\", so much so that lots of singaporeans become very cocky, proud, arrogant, 'entitlement' attitude, condescending, holier-than-thou, etc

to always hark back to the 'first in the world' achievements when everyone else have caught up with or surpassed singapore, is a dangerous thing, aka the tortoise and the hare race story

the port of shanghai has overtaken PSA, HK airport is on par if not already overtaken Changi, MRT is breaking down, better trains are in Taipei, Beijing, Xian, etc; Emirates / Qatar is hot on the heels of SIA is not already surpassed it, uni ranking ? still nowhere near the Oxbridge or ivies, or the big 4 of PRC

Pride comes before the fall