Primary school maths: A vicious circle (from TODAY May 8)

[Busymom]

wonderm:

Strparent:

errr, paiseh so many good long post on this thread, but pardon me, can I stray back on-topic on pr sch maths - esp. on setting questions beyond the standard syllabus...?


I have always try to let my kids learn on their own, from sch, from friends, from teachers, but never from tutors on maths.

today I look at my DD's maths SA1 paper, which she got zero for a 5-mark question. At first glance, I blew up and questioned on how she could not get it even partially right ? 5 marks wor, why ? no time ? nervous ? careless ? cant remember formula / method ?

the question looked straight forward enough, so I asked her to take a paper and started to show her how to solve it. After 10sec, I was stumped. LOL. So I tiam tiam, act cool a bit, ask my DS to come over ( incidentally he is in Sec2 and was always fantastic in maths ). Guess what ? It took him 15mins of pondering, writing and cancelling, before he eventually started to solve the question. But the workings were like so messy and mixed up, so I asked him to explain to his sister. He tried to explain, but DD catch no ball. In the meantime, I was trying to comprehend his work, and figured out how the solution was derived.
But I know there and then, that DD never learnt this in sch, it looks like something DS do in Maths Olympiad during his P5/P6 days.

Now I am in agreement with most parents about no unnecessary pressure or workload, no tuition, etc, but now I noted that the schools DO set questions beyond the syllabus, which is ridiculous. If you taught it, fine - of course some of her classmates get full marks for the paper.

So, yes, MOE should note this and if you want to set the standards higher, then make sure the schools teach the students as well, and not depend or expect all to learn them elsewhere.

The question which I paiseh to say, had me stumped until DS showed me the solution.
It looked to me initially like some parameters is lacking :oops:

Alan took 1/2 hr to walk from Town A to Town B at a constant speed.
Eric took 3/4 hr to walk from Town B to Town A at a constant speed.
Both started at 2.20pm.
a) at what time did Alan and Eric pass each other along the way ?
b) at the precise time when Alan reached Town B, Steven started walking from Town A to Town B at the same constant speed as Alan. At what time, did Steven and Eric meet ?

maybe it's just me, but share with me , if you think it is STANDARD primary sch maths ?

Is the answer 2.56pm?

Thanks for sharing. This is a very interesting question. If one were to use algebra (Sec level maths) to solve, it is actually much more lengthy and less elegant than using model method.

Which level is your DD in? It is indeed a challenging question, in my opinion it takes a P5 or P6 student who is strong in maths to be able to do it during exam condition. I don't think it requires the learning of any special method though.

If there was only 1 or 2 such questions in the paper, it is not a bad thing, it challenges those who are good in maths, and really shows how a seemingly difficult or impossible question can be very easily solved by drawing a simple model. If we expect the teacher to have given similar questions in class before the test, it really becomes pointless and makes learning maths much more painful as the children would think they need to remember the methods for all different kinds of questions.

Just saw this post, and at the risk of embarrassing myself, this question can be solved using the guess and check method, which is taught in P1. I am not saying that P1 student would know how to solve this question, as fractions are not taught in P1. Is this a P5 Math question?

What I did:
Alan walks 1/30 of the distance between two towns in 1 min.
Eric walks 1/45 of the distance in 1 min.

Since they will meet at some point, the distance that A walks plus the distance that E walks must equal to 1 whole. After trying 15 and 20 mins respectively, it is clear that the answer is somewhere between 15 and 20. At 18 mins, A has walked 18/30 (3/5) of the distance while E has walked 18/45 (2/5) of the distance.

Is the above method acceptable? Or will take too long to derive the answer?

[cherryc]

Totally agree with you, tutormom. I don’t know in future how many of these tuitioned artificial intelligent people will be our country leader , politicians , bankers , lawyers or doctors. And the truly brainy ones missing out the good programs that will bring our country to greater heights.


Most of my friends came from poor to middle income families when we were young , we studied hard in school , the teachers taught well and we had fair exams and a fair chance in life to make it. It saddens me to think that somewhere now there are kids who are like me when I was young cant make it far now because of the current education system. I enjoyed my Hwa Chong days and none of us got in with a single tuition.

[BeContented]

Mychildren:

BeContented,


My apology, if I sounds offensive the other time. :salute:

I, sincerely,hope all of us come here to share our views, to help our society and education to improve to a better one.

:love: No offense taken

[fightingmom]

cherryc:

Totally agree with you, tutormom. I don't know in future how many of these tuitioned artificial intelligent people will be our country leader , politicians , bankers , lawyers or doctors. And the truly brainy ones missing out the good programs that will bring our country to greater heights.


Most of my friends came from poor to middle income families when we were young , we studied hard in school , the teachers taught well and we had fair exams and a fair chance in life to make it. It saddens me to think that somewhere now there are kids who are like me when I was young cant make it far now because of the current education system. I enjoyed my Hwa Chong days and none of us got in with a single tuition.

share the same sentiment with you, cherryc. My siblings and I graduated without any tuition at all. During our times, tuition was a luxury that my parents could not afford but now, it seems to be a necessity.

I still remember my DD's first day of school in P1, her FT then asked the whole class how many of them had tuitions already. My DD told me more than half of the 40 students put up their hands !

[Mychildren]

fightingmom:

cherryc:

Totally agree with you, tutormom. I don't know in future how many of these tuitioned artificial intelligent people will be our country leader , politicians , bankers , lawyers or doctors. And the truly brainy ones missing out the good programs that will bring our country to greater heights.


Most of my friends came from poor to middle income families when we were young , we studied hard in school , the teachers taught well and we had fair exams and a fair chance in life to make it. It saddens me to think that somewhere now there are kids who are like me when I was young cant make it far now because of the current education system. I enjoyed my Hwa Chong days and none of us got in with a single tuition.

share the same sentiment with you, cherryc. My siblings and I graduated without any tuition at all. During our times, tuition was a luxury that my parents could not afford but now, it seems to be a necessity.

I still remember my DD's first day of school in P1, her FT then asked the whole class how many of them had tuitions already. My DD told me more than half of the 40 students put up their hands !

My time, I the one who is giving tuition to primary kids when I myself still studying in secondary school. No choice la, need to earn extra to help.

cherryc,
Maybe the future brainy ones will migrate to somewhere better? Who knows?

[cherryc]

Next time we can ask the mps or ministers who had tuition before and can you imagine practically everyone raises their hands.


Anyway, not only we didn’t have tuition, we also spared our parents from many things like looking around for tuition centres/tutors, pay lots of money , change tuition centres /tutors if not suitable , ferry us and wait for us to finish tuition 4 times a week. In addition , our parents don’t have to frequently discuss with their friends how to solve Maths questions , what are the good guidebooks etc. They dont get worried so often or frequently scold us for not knowing how to do maths questions that are not properly taught in school . I always tell my mom how I envy her life !

[Chenonceau]

cherryc:

Next time we can ask the mps or ministers who had tuition before and can you imagine practically everyone raises their hands.


Anyway, not only we didn't have tuition, we also spared our parents from many things like looking around for tuition centres/tutors, pay lots of money , change tuition centres /tutors if not suitable , ferry us and wait for us to finish tuition 4 times a week. In addition , our parents don't have to frequently discuss with their friends how to solve Maths questions , what are the good guidebooks etc. They dont get worried so often or frequently scold us for not knowing how to do maths questions that are not properly taught in school . I always tell my mom how I envy her life !

http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?p=767804#p767804

[J and J]

:xedfingers: :xedfingers:

sunflower:

Mychildren:

At present, there is no way to tell whether a child underperforms because he is not taught (and has no access to the material)... or because he just can't handle the material. No one is asking for 100% comprehensive textbooks... but one certainly does not expect the textbooks to document only 20% of what one needs to know for PSLE. Seriously, to do well in school exams, one hardly needs to flip the textbooks at all. They are really BASIC, as you put it.


Many children who ARE capable are NOT fulfilling their potential because they are NOT taught the material (and their parents DON'T give them tuition)... It's almost like a beehive where some bee larvae are fed Royal Jelly because they are the designated Queen Bees. The quantity and quality of the educational material our children are fed with... do have a bearing on their PSLE results.
by Chenonceau

:goodpost:

GOOD POST & WELL SAID!!!
Totally AGREE with you!

I've been sourcing materials for my children now. No point depending on the school. :hugs: :spank:
Parents of p1 & 2 won't feel a sting now. They'll know it as children progress from p4 onwards. Wait for the school to do something, by the time my children already finished their PSLE lo....... Got to take action before it's too late. Sigh, my job lo...... :sick:

Err...I think not only parents of children in schools who don't seemed to provide the necessary materials who are giving extra stuff to their children, being kiasu, parents of branded schools are doing the same as well, boosting their children's performance with enrichment and tuition, despite the schools having done their part in teaching and giving extra resources (as believed by many parents).

:grphug: :imconstipated:

[oxyleo]

http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20120523-347701.html


PM LHL reiterated yesterday at a CDAC celebration that the government will continue to enable social mobility, especially through education.

I sincerely hope they can figure something out sooner rather than later.

[Chenonceau]

J and J:

:xedfingers: :xedfingers:

sunflower:

Err...I think not only parents of children in schools who don't seemed to provide the necessary materials who are giving extra stuff to their children, being kiasu, parents of branded schools are doing the same as well, boosting their children's performance with enrichment and tuition, despite the schools having done their part in teaching and giving extra resources (as believed by many parents).

:grphug: :imconstipated:

And because branded schools' parents give enrichment, the PSLE standards and school tests must pander to the extra things rich kids learn at enrichment?

Just because rich parents do it, the system must follow their lead... and create a situation where the whole nation needs to go engage tutors to keep their kids from failing?