Primary school maths: A vicious circle (from TODAY May 8)
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coast:
Hi Coast,
Your (1)(a) and (b) assume that PSLE has a high % of Difficult questions?oxyleo:
As for the reply from SEAB about the panel of experts they assemble, and the quality of the paper, comprising of Easy, Average and Difficult, a few interesting questions come to mind:
(1)(a) Would you know if SEAB imposes a T&C on its panel experts involved in the paper setting that anyone leaving the post is required to fulfill an appropriate number of years of gardening leave from the education industry, and is disallowed to take up any role in the private education industry, such as joining or setting up enrichment centers to profit from his/her expertise? I hope any research on this shows such T&C exists.
(b) I also noted that the letter states that some school teachers are involved in the paper setting. I wonder if any transparency on the school teachers involved would help, so that we can ensure a more arms-length approach in how these school teachers are involved with the P6 cohort in their schools. If we see a trend in certain school teachers from certain schools being involved repeatedly, and their schools repeatedly trump the exams, it should warrant an appropriate authority figure looking into the matter.
(2) If we assume that the proportion of Easy, Average and Difficult questions are still maintained year after year, and standards in eacg category are also maintained year after year, I can only imagine that everyone gets the easy right, most get the Average right, and more people each year compared to the previous year are getting the Difficult questions right. If this is so, and SEAB needs to maintain the %tage of kids scoring A*'s and A's, indeed some who thought they scored sufficiently to make the A* or A may fall through the cracks, because SEAB may be hair-splitting papers by decimal places? like 91.9 vs 91.1 that sort of thing?
Again, I must emphasize this is a pure guess. If you know of any information on this, I'll be happy to hear about it.
My basis is that PSLE standard is reasonable. If this assumption is correct, then I do not see any ‘insiders’ profiting from it as famous enrichment centres pride themselves with challenging worksheets while schools that trump exams are usually setting ‘difficult’ exams (just my guess too).
How high PSLE standards are will typically be relative to how prepared the kids taking the exams are ready for it. In language subjects for eg, a child who is already devouring Eng Lit and Chinese classics will probably find the PsLE papers a breeze. I'm actually suspecting those who consider themselves well-prepared for the perceived PSLE standards that they benchmarked themselves against a few years ago will find that they may wind up with an A rather than an A*.
For (2), my view is that perhaps not so much on A but A*. But again, we do not know the % of A* each year so we are not sure if it fluctuates from one year to another. MOE only releases % of (A* + A) each year.
For languages (with oral, compo, ...), I think when you mentioned is less likely to happen.
The thing with Oral and Compo, whilst I'm aware teachers and probably examiners need to abide by some clearly set-out rubrics,on a max score of 10 points as an eg, if several kids write a Compo or participate at Oral at Sec 2 level standards, and the majority at P6 level, it is very likely the marker will accord the former kids the A* and the rest an A. It's relative u see. Assuming the former kids score the 9 's and 10's out of 10, the rest, though meeting very acceptable P6 standards, will score the 7's and 8's upon 10 right? I am beginning to understand why the popular schools have raised standards so crazily. To stand out above the rest, so their chances of an A* increases. Makes perfect sense if that is their sole objective.
For Maths and Sci, it is possible to set difficult questions in many different ways to test concept. I would think that the nature of most of these questions in PSLE would differ from year to year. If it is only a handful of such questions (say 10%), it is not hard for SEAB to ensure that they are not repetitive or similar in nature.
Again here, the Easy questions are those that everyone assumes everyone else can answer. Those aiming for A* will want to nail all of the Average ones too. And then they train like crazy for the remaining difficult questions. It's a matter of who has a higher chance of tripping over them. The more prepared you are, hence explaining all this OnSponge craze to twist and contort the minds of parents and children, the higher your chance of A* over everyone else.
MOE does not release raw scores. SEAB does not need to hair-split papers by decimal places since T-scores is an aggregated score of all the 4 subjects based on std deviation. The decimal place (of the final T-score) will come automatically during this process.
Have you read a forum letter a few years ago raising the issue of why 3A* and 1A has a lower T-score than 1A* and 3A (I might not remember the actual grades but something to that extent)? You will understand more about T-scores after that
Thanks for sharing. Please see some of my comments in blue above. Feel free to share your thoughts. Haha. Until we get more transparency on the grading and T-scores, it will continue to be really just guess work on our part. -
http://www.straitstimes.com/STForum/Story/STIStory_804737.html
http://www.straitstimes.com/STForum/OnlineStory/STIStory_804580.html
The predictable MOE response will be ... \"We can't do anything. Go and talk directly to the school. We are not here to micro-manage schools\". -
oxyleo:
hi oxyleo, i'm not related to MOE in any way.. just being hopeful as always..
:hugs: Cautiously Excited.....Chenonceau:
It would be so wonderful. I do hope that you are in some capacity to speak on behalf of MOE because your words are balm to my spirit.
... and \"cautiously excited\" sounds very cute.. :rotflmao:
Time for a commercial break... let's put some fun into maths.![](\"http://i50.tinypic.com/vhyqkk.jpg\")
http://i50.tinypic.com/vhyqkk.jpg\">
![](\"http://i48.tinypic.com/207ap15.jpg\")
![](\"http://i47.tinypic.com/3508cig.jpg\")
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Intermezzo:
You are hopeful for what?
hi oxyleo, i'm not related to MOE in any way.. just being hopeful as always..
... and \"cautiously excited\" sounds very cute.. :rotflmao: -
Intermezzo:
hi oxyleo, i'm not related to MOE in any way.. just being hopeful as always..
:hugs: Cautiously Excited.....oxyleo:
[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]
It would be so wonderful. I do hope that you are in some capacity to speak on behalf of MOE because your words are balm to my spirit.
... and \"cautiously excited\" sounds very cute.. :rotflmao:
Time for a commercial break... let's put some fun into maths.
Pray tell us where u got those questions and attempted answers from, lest we are led to suspect they were thrown at Kindergarten children. The last one was attempted with wild creativity, which we mostly expect of children that age. Hee hee!
Gasp! You're not with MOE! You're with MCYS! :scared:
Hahaha! Sorry, having my own comic relief here. -
oxyleo:
Who feels that Primary Math is difficult, KEE CHIU!!
Gasp! You're not with MOE! You're with MCYS! :scared:
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I believe all the parents have received their kids’ report book from their school. Have you noticed the mean mark and sd for maths. It is sad to see 50+ marks for maths for many of the school.
Why does the school need to set so difficult question because PSLE set so?
Did PSLE set so difficult question?
or they just want to see how many pupil can get A*.
Did they find out 50% of the school fail maths?
How the fail student will feel?
Will they like maths infuture or will hate maths more?
Do we really apply those maths question that come out from the test paper?
Why are you testing them, more creative, or more sad… -
Nebbermind:
Nebbermind,
Who feels that Primary Math is difficult, KEE CHIU!!oxyleo:
Gasp! You're not with MOE! You're with MCYS! :scared:
:imdrowning: Kee Chiu already leh! Anybody out there? Hahaha! -
imacsg:
My friend's DD failed her Maths for P5 CA1 and SA1. She is very upset and disappointed with her DD, though she knew DD's whole class failed! Her DD is very remoseful and blamed the failure on herself being lazy, which I do not think so. She wrote to apologise and mentioned that she does not wish for more tuition as it is very tiring. She is already getting tuition for Math but it does not help. She was good at Math in lower primary so my friend was upset... what went wrong?I believe all the parents have received their kids' report book from their school. Have you noticed the mean mark and sd for maths. It is sad to see 50+ marks for maths for many of the school.
Why does the school need to set so difficult question because PSLE set so?
Did PSLE set so difficult question?
or they just want to see how many pupil can get A*.
Did they find out 50% of the school fail maths?
How the fail student will feel?
Will they like maths infuture or will hate maths more?
Do we really apply those maths question that come out from the test paper?
Why are you testing them, more creative, or more sad...... -
oxyleo:
hi oxyleo ~ glad u enjoyed thatGee Intermezzo. Your Commercial Break outshone my Two Worded cuteness. :please:
Pray tell us where u got those questions and attempted answers from, lest we are led to suspect they were thrown at Kindergarten children. The last one was attempted with wild creativity, which we mostly expect of children that age. Hee hee!
Gasp! You're not with MOE! You're with MCYS! :scared:
Hahaha! Sorry, having my own comic relief here.
i saw them on the blog of Lim Jeck :
http://www.limjeck.com/index.jsp
kekeke not sure about the MCYS joke.. :skeptical:
but can't be anything good to be associated with any ministry, so.... :spank:
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