Suspect my maid has hp, advice needed
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My filipino care-giver came with a hp when she came and work for me 3 years ago. I had firmly told her she can use her handpone until she finishes her daily tasks.
Sometimes, I even buy her S$10 top up to make calls to her family back home. Even when her mobile buttons came off, I bought her a new set from post office at S$99/- which comes with 2 slots for sim card.
Sometimes, I caught her or see her using her mobile while taking care of my kids. I don’t reprimand on the spot, i will find time to talk and asked her how things back home.
2 years ago, her father was sickly. I kept asking her does she wants to go back home to pay a visit to him, she rejected. Until the day her father died, she decided to go back home. Without thinking twice, I bought her a ticket all the way back to her hometown. I even bought things for her 3 kids too and gave her S$100/- for her father’s funeral.
When she came back, I gave her the increment 5 months before her 2nd year contract ends. This year, I bought another ticket for her to go back home to attend her eldest daughter graduation. Within my means, I also gave her advance pay to help her daughter to pay her colleage fees.
Why am I doing being so nice to her? I put myself in her shoes.
Yes, I do admit there was a period of time I was quite angry with her. Since I bought her a new mobile, I expected her to answer my calls but she did not. Her explanation is she did not hear the ringing sound. I was pretty upset until I refused to top up the sim card. Later, I decided I should try message her instead. Although she takes a while to reply to me, at least she did.
My husband always reminded me to see her good side - Taking care of our 3 sons, doing the house chores and waking up at 5:30hrs in the morning (sleep at 9 at night). She has at least 8 hours full sleep at night. No complains from her.
We even buy her vitamins C too whenever we buy for the kids.
She knew extracting teeth is expensive in Singapore. She requested me to gave her advance pay so that she can go back to her hometown to extract her 4 teeth for less than S$30.
This morning, she took out the frozen bread from the freezer and leave it out for later consumption without being told. I was very surprised because there was a fresh loaf of bread on the table.
For renewing contract and new contract, maid are given 4 off-days per month. I was not prepared to discuss this to her but she told me she just need 2 days off per month. Initially, I was not happy when she brought this issue up cos her contract will be next year FY13 Nov. I bluntly replied to her maybe she will not want to work for me next year. She replied to me: "Mdm, I still want to work for you." After calculating the extra days (2 off days) that I need to pay her monthly, I felt that she deserved it.
Lastly, i want to share with you. Before having this care-giver, I had 4 caregivers (1st - Filipino who does not like being told what to do, 2nd - Filipino who have very bad breathe (my mum does not like her), 3rd - Myanmar who does not understand English and Mandarin. I had gone through 2 weeks of waking up in the morning at 5:30hrs to teach her how to operate a washing machine. She ironed clothes and folds them and iron on it again. 4th - Filipino who cried and scolds her husband everytime she called home. Her husband had prawn away all the furnitures and fridge back home. One Sunday while washing the clothes, she dropped everything and claimed for MC the next day. She always waved her hand at me with her back facing me when I called to her.)
After having all these experiences, I am thankful I have my current care-giver. I am able to trust her completely. Even my husband and I taught our sons to respect her too.
Care-giver are just like us. They are human and need friends too. Locking them up, disapprove of them to use phone, eating left over food and no given off-days…seriously if you have a husband or employer treating you this way, can you accept it? Sadly said I cannot, I will run away. -
nms1:
Why do we have to face the reality that they will all have one?
1 Even when they agree in their contract not to have one? We do have to face the reality that they will have one? So what are you saying?
They come here to work, not as slaves.
2 You seem to have this notion that employers treat their maids as slaves? Why is that so?
We do not have the right to prevent them from communicating with the outside world.
3 Because we do not have the right, they can do it anytime (e.g like the maid whom Lynn2010 saw?) and anywhere they like?
How would you like it if your boss said that you couldn't carry a hp and were not allowed to make any phone calls whatsoever (in or out) when you were at work, not even during your lunch breaks?
4 If that is condition of my employment I have a choice to accept it or not accept it. I walk away if I do not accept the conditions
Do you mean that you will accept that condition and then smuggled in your hp and then start clamoring that your boss treat you as a slave (your favorite word) and demand your right as you have been prevented from communicating with people? This is what you seem to be advocating?
Yes, some of them get into trouble when they have a hp and take days off but we can't treat them all like slaves because of a few black sheep.
5 You do seem to have a hangup that employers are treating their maids as slaves? This is the second time you are using it. Why is this so? -
Hard Truth:
I think that you & I are miles apart in the way that we approach this issue but I don't take it personally; we all have our views and I think it's good that people can see the different ways that we all handle these things.nms1:
Why do we have to face the reality that they will all have one?
1 Even when they agree in their contract not to have one? We do have to face the reality that they will have one? So what are you saying?
They come here to work, not as slaves.
2 You seem to have this notion that employers treat their maids as slaves? Why is that so?
We do not have the right to prevent them from communicating with the outside world.
3 Because we do not have the right, they can do it anytime (e.g like the maid whom Lynn2010 saw?) and anywhere they like?
How would you like it if your boss said that you couldn't carry a hp and were not allowed to make any phone calls whatsoever (in or out) when you were at work, not even during your lunch breaks?
4 If that is condition of my employment I have a choice to accept it or not accept it. I walk away if I do not accept the conditions
Do you mean that you will accept that condition and then smuggled in your hp and then start clamoring that your boss treat you as a slave (your favorite word) and demand your right as you have been prevented from communicating with people? This is what you seem to be advocating?
Yes, some of them get into trouble when they have a hp and take days off but we can't treat them all like slaves because of a few black sheep.
5 You do seem to have a hangup that employers are treating their maids as slaves? This is the second time you are using it. Why is this so?
When you talk about the conditions of the contract I think that the big difference here between the maids and us is the balance of power. If we are talking about new maids they are unlikely to be told the rules of a particular employer before they come over so if they get here and find that the employer doesn't want them to have a hp (or whatever) they can't just walk away in the same way that we can if we are looking for a new job. This is a failing of the system and the employers & maids have to find the best way to deal with it.
In an ideal world (from my perspective) they would come to Singapore for a limited period in order to find a job, we could interview them in person and agree on detailed terms before they sign a contract. That is not going to happen so we have to live with what we have.
I agree that they shouldn't be walking along the road talking on the hp while pushing a stroller but does that mean that we ban all maids from having a hp? My boss wouldn't want me to be on the phone all day but she's not going to tell me to leave it at home. I know that not all of them can be responsible but I don't think we should \"punish\" them all as a result. They sacrifice a lot to come here and a lot (I won't say majority as someone will tell me that's not true) of them just want to work hard and earn money but they don't want to be cut off from the world in the process. Just imagine if you couldn't talk to anyone but your boss for 6 days a week?
Granted I may be looking at this through rose-tinted glasses as I have been very lucky with my maids. Yes, I had to send one home because she was pregnant but she made a mistake and that's life. She was a great maid and if it wasn't for the fact that her boyfriend was a local and is still here, I would take her back in the blink of an eye. -
This is a discussion and there is nothing personal.
Are we worlds apart? Yes
I stick to the issues and you make comments but run away when your comments need clarifications. You make sweeping statements and then do not substantiate them. That's how different we are.
We can have different viewpoints but you must substantiate yours. You cannot make sweeping statements and then run away
Can you please stick to the 5 issues that were raised in our previous discussion I have taken the trouble to number them for your easy reference so that you can reply but you have purposely dodge them
You have a hangup about employers treating their maids as slaves and now you refused to clarify what you mean.
You insist that employers have no rights and you run away from the issue.
You sounded very anti employer and pro maid which is fine but you must substantiate your stand
Can we get back to the 5 issues which are still outstanding you raised without creating new ones?
Let's stick to the facts and discuss the issues below. You can place your response under mine so that others can read and follow our impersonal discussion.
1 Even when they agree in their contract not to have one? We do have to face the reality that they will have one? So what are you saying?
2 You seem to have this notion that employers treat their maids as slaves? Why is that so?
3 Because we do not have the right, they can do it anytime (e.g like the maid whom Lynn2010 saw?) and anywhere they like?
4 If that is condition of my employment I have a choice to accept it or not accept it. I walk away if I do not accept the conditions
Do you mean that you will accept that condition and then smuggled in your hp and then start clamoring that your boss treat you as a slave (your favorite word) and demand your right as you have been prevented from communicating with people? This is what you seem to be advocating?
5 You do seem to have a hangup that employers are treating their maids as slaves? This is the second time you are using it. Why is this so?
We looking forward to you clarifications instead of you dodging themHard Truth:
nms1:
Why do we have to face the reality that they will all have one?
1 Even when they agree in their contract not to have one? We do have to face the reality that they will have one? So what are you saying?
They come here to work, not as slaves.
2 You seem to have this notion that employers treat their maids as slaves? Why is that so?
We do not have the right to prevent them from communicating with the outside world.
3 Because we do not have the right, they can do it anytime (e.g like the maid whom Lynn2010 saw?) and anywhere they like?
How would you like it if your boss said that you couldn't carry a hp and were not allowed to make any phone calls whatsoever (in or out) when you were at work, not even during your lunch breaks?
4 If that is condition of my employment I have a choice to accept it or not accept it. I walk away if I do not accept the conditions
Do you mean that you will accept that condition and then smuggled in your hp and then start clamoring that your boss treat you as a slave (your favorite word) and demand your right as you have been prevented from communicating with people? This is what you seem to be advocating?
Yes, some of them get into trouble when they have a hp and take days off but we can't treat them all like slaves because of a few black sheep.
5 You do seem to have a hangup that employers are treating their maids as slaves? This is the second time you are using it. Why is this so? -
OK. Here goes.
1 Even when they agree in their contract not to have one? We do have to face the reality that they will have one? So what are you saying?
What I am saying is the reality is that many of them already have a hp or want one so what are we achieving by trying to ban it. Let's face the reality beforehand and figure out a way to keep both sides happy.
2 You seem to have this notion that employers treat their maids as slaves? Why is that so?
I am not saying that all employers do but time & time again on this and other forums I see examples of what I regard as being inappropriate treatment. That is my opinion and others may not see it that way. I do not think they should be banned from having a hp or given no off-days. I do not like the cavalier way in which some employers send maids home. These are just examples.
3 Because we do not have the right, they can do it anytime (e.g like the maid whom Lynn2010 saw?) and anywhere they like?
No, I am not saying that at all.Of course they shouldn't be doing that but just because some of them do it doesn't mean that we ban everyone. It's like trying to say that we ban all foreigners from driving because one lunatic in a Ferrari jumps a red light. We need to put it in perspective
4 If that is condition of my employment I have a choice to accept it or not accept it. I walk away if I do not accept the conditions
Do you mean that you will accept that condition and then smuggled in your hp and then start clamoring that your boss treat you as a slave (your favorite word) and demand your right as you have been prevented from communicating with people? This is what you seem to be advocating?
Not at all. What I am saying is do they have a choice? If you bring in a maid usually the only things stipulated are the salary and maybe the off-days. Issues such as having hp, curfews, where they sleep, what they eat etc are decided once you meet them. If she doesn't like it, what can she do? Is she going to turn around and go home? Will the agent allow her to turn the employer down?
For me, unless I am desperate for a job I will either negotiate terms, live with it or not take the job. They don't have that choice.
5 You do seem to have a hangup that employers are treating their maids as slaves? This is the second time you are using it. Why is this so?
I think I explained this in point 2
I understand that I probably come across as more pro-maid than some others but there are serious flaws in the system. Yes, as employers we have to meet their medical costs, worry about them falling pregnant or getting into other kinds of trouble but there are also many many maids out there who come over to earn a living leaving their families behind and are then not treated fairly. The majority of us here in Singapore are blessed and we are very lucky to even have the option to employer a maid. Sometimes we forget that. -
nms1:
My first maid was banned from having a hp when she joined us at my husband's request. I didn't agree but ceded to it anyway. After a while she bought herself one and my m-i-l found out, told me but we both turned a blind eye. Eventually my m-i-l told her that she knew as she would fetch my daughter from childcare so it made sense for her to carry a hp then.Hard Truth:
[quote=\"nms1\"]I think to say that 99.9% slack off when they have a hp is a gross exaggeration - I have had 4 maids all of whom have had a hp and it hasn't had a negative impact at all.
Would you like to share with us what you did with your maids that the possession of handphones did not have a negative impact at all? I think I understand what verykiasu2010 meant when he said 99.9% but you will have to ask verykiasu2010 if you are not comfortable with the figure
We have to face the reality that they will all have one nowadays and we have to find ways to deal with it.
I am not sure I understand what you mean when you say that \"We have to face the reality that they will all have one nowadays\". Why is this so?
She used to send the occasional sms during the afternoon when my daughter was sleeping and she was in her room ironing or whatever and she made calls at night but not that often.
We didn't impose any ban on the rest of our maids and they all had a hp when they came to us. They were told very clearly that they were not to use the phone while they were working apart from maybe an sms or something in the afternoon when they take a break. They have all stuck to it. My previous one used to chat for ages every evening but she always finished her work first and never stayed up too late talking. They have all used their common sense and put their work first.
I would much prefer that they have a hp and can contact their friends and family. It also means I can contact them when they are out.
Why do we have to face the reality that they will all have one? Exactly for the reasons above. They come here to work, not as slaves. We do not have the right to prevent them from communicating with the outside world. How would you like it if your boss said that you couldn't carry a hp and were not allowed to make any phone calls whatsoever (in or out) when you were at work, not even during your lunch breaks? Yes, some of them get into trouble when they have a hp and take days off but we can't treat them all like slaves because of a few black sheep.[/quote]I can see that you are already in discussion with another poster on this topic of maid phone usage. It is good that you have share with us your personal experience with your own maids.
But I find your last paragraph disturbing. You are quite firm that employers don't have the right to stop the maid from using the handphone. There are may posts here which shows that maids are irresponsible with the phone use. In one case the maid could have had the employer's child killed if not for the presence of another employer. And yet you say that the employer does not have the right? You also indicate that some of them get into trouble when they have a handphone. From what I have been reading most of them do get into trouble with their employers. Is there some typo in your last paragraph? -
I think people are taking my comment the wrong way. What I am trying to say is that I don’t believe we have the right to tell them to not have a hp at all. We can put restrictions on when they use it, in the same way that my boss could if she wanted but to ban them completely just in case they misuse it is not fair.
Some of them get into trouble but most of them don’t. If one of your co-workers spent all day on her hp at work causing all of you to be banned from using your hp in the office, how would you feel? And if we ban them completely we are not just talking about during working hours; we are talking about 24/7. They are entitled to a life outside your household. -
Thank you very much. I am sure you will agree that our discussion is easier for others to follow
nms1:
OK. Here goes.
1 Even when they agree in their contract not to have one? We do have to face the reality that they will have one? So what are you saying?
What I am saying is the reality is that many of them already have a hp or want one so what are we achieving by trying to ban it. Let's face the reality beforehand and figure out a way to keep both sides happy.
You are avoiding the issue again. When their contract say no hp you encouraging them to sneak one in because to you the reality is that they will have one? Should they not learn to honor what they sign. Go read a couple of posts before our discussion and one maid sneak in not one but two and you advocate such attitude?
2 You seem to have this notion that employers treat their maids as slaves? Why is that so?
I am not saying that all employers do but time & time again on this and other forums I see examples of what I regard as being inappropriate treatment. That is my opinion and others may not see it that way. I do not think they should be banned from having a hp or given no off-days. I do not like the cavalier way in which some employers send maids home. These are just examples.
You introduce the subject of \"slaves\" You are painting employers as employing them as slaves. This was actually unnecessary as we are discussing about maids hand phones. Now you are telling employers that they cannot ban the use of hand phones?
3 Because we do not have the right, they can do it anytime (e.g like the maid whom Lynn2010 saw?) and anywhere they like?
No, I am not saying that at all.Of course they shouldn't be doing that but just because some of them do it doesn't mean that we ban everyone. It's like trying to say that we ban all foreigners from driving because one lunatic in a Ferrari jumps a red light. We need to put it in perspective
Go and read your own post. \"We do not have the right to prevent them from communicating with the outside world.\" You are denying what you say? The maid that Lynn2010 stopped nearly cause the employer,s child to be maimed or killed. And the employer don't have the right to ban or stop the maid from using the hp? What kind of message are you sending? Even if you are pro maid I think this is irresponsible. Would you like it if it was your maid pushing the pram and Lynn was not there. Employers should have the right. It is the maid who will have to be responsible when given the privilege of using a hand phone. Lynn2010 is correct when she said it was an abuse of privilege. Why can't you see this? You are not being fair to the employer who has the kid in the pram by insisting that employers do not have the right. You should be preaching that maids should be more responsible when given privileges. You are barking up the wrong tree.
4 If that is condition of my employment I have a choice to accept it or not accept it. I walk away if I do not accept the conditions
Do you mean that you will accept that condition and then smuggled in your hp and then start clamoring that your boss treat you as a slave (your favorite word) and demand your right as you have been prevented from communicating with people? This is what you seem to be advocating?
Not at all. What I am saying is do they have a choice? If you bring in a maid usually the only things stipulated are the salary and maybe the off-days. Issues such as having hp, curfews, where they sleep, what they eat etc are decided once you meet them. If she doesn't like it, what can she do? Is she going to turn around and go home? Will the agent allow her to turn the employer down?
[color=#800000]Sure they have a choice. They know that they cannot have a phone so they don't take the job.They know about the conditions back home. You are encouraging the maid to flout the contract. Again you seem to be preaching such values and encouraging them?
For me, unless I am desperate for a job I will either negotiate terms, live with it or not take the job. I agree with you. But you are preaching the maid to do differently.
They don't have that choice.[/color]
Come, come they have a choice unless you do not give yours a choice. They are told back home when the employer provide the specs and they can turn down the jobs. Some have gone back after two years because they were not allowed handphone and then waited for employers who allow them handphones in the next contract. These are maids with integrity and should be admired.
5 You do seem to have a hangup that employers are treating their maids as slaves? This is the second time you are using it. Why is this so?
I think I explained this in point 2
You did and I thank you. But you kept harping on it twice that you do seem to have a hangup on this. And the subject of \"slaves\" did not even cone up in the discussion about maids giving problems to their employers. You created the confusion.
I understand that I probably come across as more pro-maid than some others but there are serious flaws in the system. Yes, as employers we have to meet their medical costs, worry about them falling pregnant or getting into other kinds of trouble but there are also many many maids out there who come over to earn a living leaving their families behind and are then not treated fairly. The majority of us here in Singapore are blessed and we are very lucky to even have the option to employer a maid. Sometimes we forget that.
I would advocate that employers treat their maids justly and fairly. I believe most of us do but there are a few black sheep who do not deserve to hire maids. But you seem to paint a larger number of them as employers of slaves. Handphones are a problem because they turn good maids into poor ones (Go read some of earlier posts) Most maids cannot managed the use of the phones and become addicted to them. Maids should learn to be more responsible.
When you champion the rights for maids you should ensure that rights come with responsibilities.
Our wish is that the maids learn to be responsible. Can they do what they have agreed to do in the first place? Can they do it the way employers want it done. Is that too much to ask? -
Maid who endanger the lives of those under their care should be terminated immediately, unless the employer was kept in the dark about her misdeeds.
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nms1:
You are a very strange poster. You blame everyone except yourself for your post. When you cannot express yourself clearly you blame others. Suggest that you think clearly before you post if you do not want others to take your comments the wrong way.I think people are taking my comment the wrong way. What I am trying to say is that I don't believe we have the right to tell them to not have a hp at all. We can put restrictions on when they use it, in the same way that my boss could if she wanted but to ban them completely just in case they misuse it is not fair.
Some of them get into trouble but most of them don't. If one of your co-workers spent all day on her hp at work causing all of you to be banned from using your hp in the office, how would you feel? And if we ban them completely we are not just talking about during working hours; we are talking about 24/7. They are entitled to a life outside your household.
One of the problem I see with your post is that you are unable to respond clearly on what is being discussed and bring in totally inappropriate analogies and confused the issue.
We are talking about problems with maids having handphones and you go and talk about office colleagues! Stick on with maid issues!
You also seems to be arrogant. Who are you to tell employers that they do not have the right to hire a maid without a handphone. Even the Minister does not do that and you are bigger than the Minister?
Just because it your belief you can do it with your own hire. Nobody cares. But you want to impose your belief on others? Other employers may have very valid reasons why they do not want to have a maid without a handphone and you do not respect their beliefs? You only care and talk about your beliefs
Unbelievable
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