Real reason behind Singapore’s obsession with tuition

[Imami]

I can’t u derstand that cos by normal logic, without any other influencing factor, teach 100% should end up with learn 100%, if not lesser than 100%. How come can learn more?


I supposed the education is now geared towards self learning or learn more in your own means? But it’s not fair lor. Not everyone has sufficient dough to frank all the supplementarity classes. Not everyone has the time.

[janet88]

Imami:

I can't u derstand that cos by normal logic, without any other influencing factor, teach 100% should end up with learn 100%, if not lesser than 100%. How come can learn more?


I supposed the education is now geared towards self learning or learn more in your own means? But it's not fair lor. Not everyone has sufficient dough to frank all the supplementarity classes. Not everyone has the time.

1+1=2. Right? If not teaching 100% but yet testing 101%, what logic ?
That means schools keep saliva from teaching, you all go find tutors to learn more lor.

[atutor2001]

coast:

Hi atutor2001,

Thanks for sharing

I just found a slide dated 2011 (pg 7 of attachment from http://www.chijpritoapayoh.moe.edu.sg/NWeb/Parents%20Briefing/P6_Briefing_2011.pdf
):-

PSLE Grading System
A* 91 – 100
A 75 - 90
B 60 - 74
C 50 – 59
D 35 - 49
E 20 - 34
U - Ungraded < 20

Would you be able to advise (based on your prior estimates of data you have analysed):-

1) Do you think PSLE awards grades based on above grading system?
2) Do you think the MT's mean is different from the other 3 subjects (Eng, Maths, Sci) since 80++% scored A*/A for MT Vs 40++% scored A*/A for the other 3 subjects?
....

Hi Coast

1) Yes PSLE grades are based on the above marks.

2) The means of all the 4 subjects are different, so are their standard deviations. Based on my estimates, the average overall mean (lumping all 4 subjects together) is about 70. The means of math and Chinese are usually higher, more than than 70 less than 80. The means of English and Science are lower, between 60 and 70.

When a student's raw score for a subject is equal to the national mean, he will get a T-score of 50 for that subject. So a student with raw scores for all 4 subjects being exactly equal to the respective means will get T-score of 50 for each subject. The total aggregate T-score will then be 200, which is just above the cut-off point for express in secondary school.

Because of the high means for math and Chinese, a grade B in any of these subjects can pull down the T-score badly because a grade B is likely to be below the mean so the T score for that subject is going to be less than 50.

Above is a simplified view of T-score and hope I have answered your queries.

[coast]

atutor2001:

coast:

Hi atutor2001,

Thanks for sharing

I just found a slide dated 2011 (pg 7 of attachment from http://www.chijpritoapayoh.moe.edu.sg/NWeb/Parents%20Briefing/P6_Briefing_2011.pdf
):-

PSLE Grading System
A* 91 – 100
A 75 - 90
B 60 - 74
C 50 – 59
D 35 - 49
E 20 - 34
U - Ungraded < 20

Would you be able to advise (based on your prior estimates of data you have analysed):-

1) Do you think PSLE awards grades based on above grading system?
2) Do you think the MT's mean is different from the other 3 subjects (Eng, Maths, Sci) since 80++% scored A*/A for MT Vs 40++% scored A*/A for the other 3 subjects?
....

Hi Coast

1) Yes PSLE grades are based on the above marks.

2) The means of all the 4 subjects are different, so are their standard deviations. Based on my estimates, the average overall mean (lumping all 4 subjects together) is about 70. The means of math and Chinese are usually higher, more than than 70 less than 80. The means of English and Science are lower, between 60 and 70.

When a student's raw score for a subject is equal to the national mean, he will get a T-score of 50 for that subject. So a student with raw scores for all 4 subjects being exactly equal to the respective means will get T-score of 50 for each subject. The total aggregate T-score will then be 200, which is just above the cut-off point for express in secondary school.

Because of the high means for math and Chinese, a grade B in any of these subjects can pull down the T-score badly because a grade B is likely to be below the mean so the T score for that subject is going to be less than 50.

Above is a simplified view of T-score and hope I have answered your queries.

Hi atutor2001,

Once again thank you for sharing

I wrote the below post more than a year ago, managed to find the post after reading your above reply.

http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=21969&start=400

Copied below for easy reference:-

coast:

Here's something for any interested parents to ponder:-

A parent wrote to the media about \"Why good grades but low PSLE aggregate\"

http://www.asiaone.com/News/Education/Story/A1Story20081211-106943.html

In summary, her son scored 3 A* (Eng, Maths, Sci) and 1 A (Chi) ... T-score 244 ... lower T-score than those of his peers with 3A and 1B.

Here's SEAB's reply:-

http://www.seab.gov.sg/publicCommunications/mediaReplies/Editor_of_MyPaper_20081216.pdf

.

If PSLE awards grades based on above grading system, would you be able to guess how the following is possible (perhaps with some estimated mean and SD):-

Three A* for English, Mathematics and Science, an A for Chinese = aggregate score of 244. Most of his friends who managed 3As and a B have better aggregate scores than him.

I thought it is possible (3A* & 1A higher T-score than 3A & 1B) if A*, A, ... is based on a bell-curved and not on a fixed range like the PSLE Grading System quoted above?

Many many thanks if you can offer your views on this.

:thankyou:

[wonderm]

Kiasuism has many faces. A parent can be kiasu in many different ways when it concerns the child’s education.


1. Overly competitive, "want to win everything all the time" - let the child attend tuition/enrichment for everything whether he is already good at it or not.
2. Herd instinct - without knowing much about GEP or IP prog, also not sure if one’s own child is suited for such prog, would still hot-housing the child for it.
3. Afraid to lose, so stay away from competition - when a child qualifies for GEP or IP prog or a top school, but the parent is too afraid that he cannot compete with the other smart kids, hence chooses not to go for it.
4. Too scared of failure, provides for many "just-in-case" - Already in IP, but worried about not doing well in A-Level, hence will ask the child to take O Level as private student.
5. Don’t want to lose-out - Do not like the idea of tuition and the child is doing fine in school, but because that seems to be what everyone else is doing, so send and complain at the same time.
The list goes on…

Note, it is the mentality that I am talking about. For some people, these mentalities lead to the actions above. But the actions themselves do not imply the mentality. We can’t really tell if someone is kiasu just by looking at the action. We need to know what was the thinking behind the actions.

I believe such kiasu mentalities exist in every country/culture. But if we Singaporeans are indeed more kiasu than others, then no wonder we are not a happy bunch.

[verykiasu2010]

wonderm:

Kiasuism has many faces. A parent can be kiasu in many different ways when it concerns the child's education.


1. Overly competitive, \"want to win everything all the time\" - let the child attend tuition/enrichment for everything whether he is already good at it or not.
2. Herd instinct - without knowing much about GEP or IP prog, also not sure if one's own child is suited for such prog, would still hot-housing the child for it.
3. Afraid to lose, so stay away from competition - when a child qualifies for GEP or IP prog or a top school, but the parent is too afraid that he cannot compete with the other smart kids, hence chooses not to go for it.
4. Too scared of failure, provides for many \"just-in-case\" - Already in IP, but worried about not doing well in A-Level, hence will ask the child to take O Level as private student.
5. Don't want to lose-out - Do not like the idea of tuition and the child is doing fine in school, but because that seems to be what everyone else is doing, so send and complain at the same time.
The list goes on....

Note, it is the mentality that I am talking about. For some people, these mentalities lead to the actions above. But the actions themselves do not imply the mentality. We can't really tell if someone is kiasu just by looking at the action. We need to know what was the thinking behind the actions.

I believe such kiasu mentalities exist in every country/culture. But if we Singaporeans are indeed more kiasu than others, then no wonder we are not a happy bunch.

you also have another form of kiasuism where the parents complain and complain cow father cow mother suggesting all kinds of actions to deal with all the holes and gaps and lackings but quietly doing the opposite -- \"hidden dangers or 阴险!\"

or another type, act blur but lap up all the info

[pinky]

teach less - in schools

learn more - from tuition :faint:

[dorisp]

hokkiengirl:

dorisp:

Hey, can I join? I'd like my boy to learn dialects but he does not seen to like it leh..... ... :sad:

Oh, dorisp, my boys don't really 'like' Hokkien. They just take it that it's this thing their mad Mother speaks to them and the world. Don't care; ng-air ng-air lai (just push ahead). Speak relentlessly to him in dialect for some part of the day. Pretty soon, he'll figure it out. He'll thank you for it when he goes to the army. I think that there are actually loads of Singaporean families that still use dialects to communicate.

Thanks for the encouragement hokkiengirl, I shall try starting today.

BTW I recall hearding some boys from DS's kinddy speaking some dialect \"bad words\" when I was at the school the other day, sigh, and even their mother didn't stop those boys. I sure hope my DS didn't pick these up.

[fightingmom]

hokkiengirl:

fightingmom:

Haha.. My DD can understand and speak teochew and hokkien - though not fluently but good enough to communicate with my parents and elderly relatives. My mum used to tease her when she was a toddler by asking,\" Li si teochew nang, ka si hokkien nang?\" [ Are you teochew or hokkien ?] and she replied,\"cham cham.\" [rojak, mixed]

Anything she is not sure of, she likes to reply ,\" wa em zai\" (yes, even now )

Ha ha I like!! Hey, how old is your DD, fightingmom? Maybe can match her with one of my three boys. We can build our little dialect empire. Seriously, though, I think it's terrific that she can communicate in two dialects!

Hi hokkiengirl,

My DD is already 12 years old this year ... Is a big jie jie to ur 2 boys
And I do agree with you in one of your posts... Children pick up language real fast especially if they are exposed to it daily. My dd picks up basic Malay in school and she practices it with my hubby. She uses it when she wants to share some \"secrets\" with her daddy instead of me. :roll:

Am in the midst of teaching her some basic Korean which I learn from watching kdramas

[Chenonceau]

Let us not dispute the notion of whether parents are kiasu. Let us acknowledge that parents are kiasu in the way the following 2 bloggers have acknowledged the phenomenon.

(1) http://hedgehogcomms.blogspot.sg/2012/06/education-stress-whose-fault.html

(2) http://8percentpa.blogspot.sg/search/label/Education

There remains systemic solutions to temper the kiasu-ism. Why is it that Humankind can dam up rivers, lay optical fibre into the ocean floor, FLY, search for a cancer cure... but so easily admit defeat in the face of Parent Kiasu-ism without even trying to brainstorm systemic solutions or listen to those proffered by fellow countrymen?

Ever seen scuffles over food rations dropped from the sky into a wartorn zone? There is kiasu-ism behind that surely? People are afraid that
(1) they won't get enough food OR
(2) that they'll get the stuff that is inferior if the don't

So what can systemically be done to put law and order into the process of food distribution? A strong central authority needs to...

(1) ensure the equitable distribution of food (or educational opportunities)
Transparent, reliable and consistent processes to determine the size of families (or the child's calibre) so that more or less food (or education) can be allocated. When the choicest opportunities go to the Fastest Grabber, then more and more people will learn to grab. Even people who have been brought up to eschew vulgar grabbing, will learn to grab. If the choicest opportunities are given to those with best&most tuition/enrichment, then more and more people will learn to be KiasuParents. Even people who did not believe in tuition will learn that tuition is necessary.

(2) ensure that food quality is consistent so that people won't fear that they'll get stuck with low quality stuff if they don't fight for themselves. Ensure all schools give consistent quality so that people won't feel that if they place their kids in the wrong school, they'll be stuck with Teachers who spell \"troopping\" or who ask children to contribute tuition materials to share with the class. This will go some way in tempering parent kiasu-ism.

Instead... the excuses are...
(1) It is not possible to ensure consistency
(2) It is not possible to hire enough teachers to make smaller classes
(3) It is not possible to retain teachers to get enough to make smaller classes
(4) It is not possible to micromanage schools to ensure that at least mainstream content taught and tested is consistent across all of mainstream
(5) It's no big deal... schools that overtest are only the top 30% of schools.

Think about it. 30% of 180 schools = 54 schools. 54 schools each with 400 students across 6 years = 54 X 400 X 6 = 129600.

129,600 students are being over-tested every year simply because the PSLE over-tests to account for the knowledge sold in enrichment classes, but not taught in schools. And people can sit back and say... that's no big deal? It's only 30%? Ever thought of the pain these 129,600 young lives (and their parents) are going through? This is what happens when people who have successful kids in the system (and a high quality educational experience) and money to throw into TLL and other erstwhile external enrichment plus time to coach at home... deny that poor quality education exists because they themselves did not experience it, or had their own ways to easily bridge the holes. This is what happens when policy makers have no talent for empathy... and only read numbers - 30%.

Certainly, parents are kiasu. What can we do about that? Nothing? Or something?

At least try and find systemic levers around that instead of simply repeating that Parents are to Blame. There is no shame when parents want the best for their children. If quality of schools remain different across the nation, then it is to be expected that parents will do everything and anything they can to get into the good schools - DSA, enrichment from Age 3 (or womb), volunteer, tuition, hire people to do homework.... blah blah blah...

The issue boils down to weak governance by MOE.