Real reason behind Singapore’s obsession with tuition
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janet_lee88:
Actually for compo, many parents would want to know how kids fared. That is Paper 1...if kids feel that they did ok, they have confidence to move on and not worry about it. For compo, most schools will NOT even show kids nor tell them the grades...Category 3. If it is P6, especially, there is no harm telling us parents the grades? We have every reason to find out how we can help kids improve.
out of 185 or so pri schools, how many as you say 'most schools' ? -
tuition_czar:
exactly. that is why parents should not make unsubstantiated sweeping statements. #1 it mislead readers, and #2 they can still be traced to where / who they areWell my friend, what is considered defamation is really subjective. If it stings someone real bad, he might just decide to take action against that particular poster. Even if the outcome absolves the defendant of any wrongdoing, he has endured unnecessary anguish during this whole period, lawyer letters, court proceedings and all.
Which is why its best remain clear-headed and don't let emotions rule your head in a manner where you post things you might come to regret later. -
tuition_czar:
You are a councillor, so I guess you have the power to issue warnings in here right?[/quote] :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
exactly. that is why parents should not make unsubstantiated sweeping statements. #1 it mislead readers, and #2 they can still be traced to where / who they areverykiasu2010:
[quote=\"tuition_czar\"]Well my friend, what is considered defamation is really subjective. If it stings someone real bad, he might just decide to take action against that particular poster. Even if the outcome absolves the defendant of any wrongdoing, he has endured unnecessary anguish during this whole period, lawyer letters, court proceedings and all.
Which is why its best remain clear-headed and don't let emotions rule your head in a manner where you post things you might come to regret later. -
tuition_czar:
Ok I am dense, enlighten me. I don't quite get your response. What's up with the rolling on the floor?
is bed time ! -
verykiasu2010:
Was told by who? If you don't mind sharing, jan..
I am very skepticaljanet_lee88:
I am disappointed, very disappointed that such vital info cannot be revealed.
Was told that heads will roll if compo marks are told.
In my DS' previous school ( a neighbourhood sch) as well as his current school (a GEP sch), teachers return ALL exam papers and go through the answers with the pupils in class. Pupils check through the papers and approach the teachers, should there be any erros in marking (yes, there are errors in marking, sometimes). Pupils then bring the exam papers home for parents to look through and sign. There is a Cover Page (for every subject) to show the breakdown of every single component (eg. Oral, LC, Compo, every section of Paper 2, and Total). After parents look through and sign, pupils bring the exam papers back to class the next day. Teachers collect the exam papers back for final computation of marks. After the marks of all subjects have been finalised and computed in the Report Books, the exam papers are returned to the pupils for filing, and the files are kept at home for revision..
With the exception of DS1's P4-P6 Social Studies GEP exam papers.. I have, in my home now, all the exam papers of all the subjects for both my DSs. -
Haiz. Sometimes it seems to me that one cannot write anything without being scrutinized for vocabulary, grammar- or sentence structure or even punctuation . I'm sure when it was posted as 'most school blah blah blah...' it could possibly mean most school that the poster has came across or heard about.
As for suggesting that one name schools that have negative reviews eg Cat3,4, why not let's name schools which have positive reviews eg Cat1,2 to see if it hit the mid way mark of 185 schools? Or simply to give these Cat1,2 schools credit and make them popular (or even more :evil:) choices for p1 registration . -
jedamum:
Jedamum, it is a good idea to get down to the specifics.Haiz. Sometimes it seems to me that one cannot write anything without being scrutinized for vocabulary, grammar- or sentence structure or even punctuation . I'm sure when it was posted as 'most school blah blah blah...' it could possibly mean most school that the poster has came across or heard about.
As for suggesting that one name schools that have negative reviews eg Cat3,4, why not let's name schools which have positive reviews eg Cat1,2 to see if it hit the mid way mark of 185 schools? Or simply to give these Cat1,2 schools credit and make them popular (or even more :evil:) choices for p1 registration .
Perhaps we can collate the practices of the school list and send to MOE instead to highlight that this may be an area of empowerment in schools that has little value for the children's learning process, the feedback is missing for the children to learn from their errors or strength. There is not much point in publishing here as nothing can be done except to make people feel uncomfortable whether it is a positive practice(as you rightly pointed out
) or a negative one.
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Think beanbear's point is correct, that the policy is for teachers to teach up to 3 subjects except MT. Noone said that 'schools / principals who manage to get individual teachers for each subject are running afoul of MOE policy'. Rather, I think it's
(1) MOE-trained teachers deployed to Primary Schools (except MT) are expected to teach EMS at every level if they are being called to;
(2) Deployment of teachers is at the P's prerogative. However, the teacher-resources given to Ps by MOE are that each teacher (sans MT) are trained and obligated to teach EMS, and can be called to do so.verykiasu2010:
beanbear:
There are systemic issues that can only be addressed by MOE.
Specialist teachers for each subject. The policy is for teachers to teach up to 3 subjects except MT. This policy is flawed. There are many real cases of teachers who CANNOT teach 2 out of 3 subjects yet they are forced by the system to do so. So many teachers themselves admit Maths is their worst subject, yet they are asked to teach it. Some teachers speak atrociously, cannot spell, don't know grammar rules yet they are teaching English. Some only had Secondary school science as their only qualification in science but they teach primary school science.
I've had to turn to tuition to get Specialized Teaching for each subject.
I wouldn't say Teachers are not teaching at schools. But they are not adequately equipped or trained to teach in subjects they themselves are academically weak in. You get patchy learning from someone who is not very confident in that subject. I could always tell which is the subject my DS form teacher is probably well-trained or educated in because it's evident by the way he/she has delivered the subject and how DS can playback what he learnt from that teacher, the way he/she marks the work.
saying it is forced by the system or policy is total bullshit
don't tell me those schools / principals who manage to get individual teachers for each subject are running afoul of MOE policy ?
bullsh!t!
have enuf friends who are teachers / HOD / principals / master teacher / directors in MOE to say it is never a policy -
While there are strengths for teachers to specialise in a subject, I do see an advantage for a teacher to teach EMS. It is more beneficial to a young child to have fewer teachers. The students have to get used to the teachers’ teaching style. They can also have better bonds with the teacher and thus feel comfortable with the teacher (of course the opposite can happen too). Students will perform/learn better when they are comfortable with their teachers. I guess this is one reason why some schools have one teacher to teach all subjects at lower primary levels but have specialised teaching at higher levels.
Parents with shy/timid/introvert children will appreciate fewer teachers in P1 so that their kids will only have to deal (get used to) with fewer teachers.
It makes sense for schools (and MOE) to require their teachers to teach more than one subjects (actual implementation is another issue altogether). This is to allow the schools to have more flexibility in deployment of their teachers. -
ksi and others,
It is exactly parents stepping forward to share these true experiences that we can understand the different practises going on in our schools.
Our school is in category 3. (and looking at the response, we are not the only one)
ksi, you are right that we can calculate the component marks ourselves but it will be just a guess because besides paper1, the oral component marks are also not revealed :
#1) Paper 1 : range of marks
#2) Paper 2: known mark
#3) Listening : unknown
#4) Oral, Reading : unknown
#5) Oral, Picture discussion : unknown
#6) Oral, conversation : unknown
One range of mark given for #4,#5,#6
One range of mark given for #1
For Listening, sometimes the teacher will tell the pupils in class. This year, the FT told me during PTM but previous years, I just do a rough guess of 1 question wrong.
I will put in different combination of range to guess the marks but there are too many blackboxes to make an accurate computation.
This is the same for both English and Chinese.
For chinese, #4,#5,#6, a 上，中，下...中上，中下will also be disclosed.
I understand the mentioned points from the school's perspective. Ideally, the school should choose to manage the parents' response rather than do a CYA-approach to refuse returning the papers even to the pupils. However, after years of trying to convince them otherwise, we've also stepped back and asked that the paper 1 be returned to the pupils (not take home) at P6 SA1 and Prelim ONLY -> we also put up the case that there will be no more class banding for P6 (they will gradudate from the school) and it is important for the pupils who will be taking PSLE soon, to really have a look at what are the mistakes made so they still have a chance to improve before the exam. Sadly, we still get the PR-reply and no action.
I feel that as parents we've tired to approach the situation as supportively as we can. To share with parents stuck in the same situation, this is how we try to \"survive\" the situation : Like beanbear did, I read up on resources, give my son my practise at home to stimulate the exam condition.I also try my best to mantain a good relationship with the teachers and during PTM, I will try to \"squeeze\" more info like \"is it the content that has lower score?\", 是不是很多错字？
(for those who are unable to coach/support their kids, I wont be surprise they turn to tuition to cover this gap! re: original topic of this thread)
We will move on to a new scene in 6months but I want to share these real experiences so those who shop only at Tanglin Mall can have some idea what goes on elsewhere.
I hope Chenonceau and other's effort to bring about systematic changes to our primary school education will bear some fruit in the near future.
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