City Harvest's founder Kong Hee & 4 others arrested/charged

[SilentHermit]

No Kidding:

sacredmusicals:

Dream, I apologize for my last post to you. It must have been hard for you and I should not press you like that. You have made very good posts here that are very enlightening to both Christians and non Christians. If you do not mind, can you tackle one of the most controversial questions ever in Christianity?


Will all non Christians go to hell?

I myself am a Christian and honestly, I cannot answer this question. My Christian friends either give me the same standard answer or refused to discuss this. I was once asked this question by a non Christian and I was dumbfounded. I hope to see your views on this as I could feel god's wisdom in your words.

The question is not controversial at all. The Bible is very clear in its answer here:

\"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does NOT believe stands condemned already because they have NOT believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.\" (John 3:16-18)

\"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will NOT see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.\" (John 3:36)

Ask this one simply question: if Jesus did not die to save us from hell fire (which is what all who are born in sin deserves), then what did he die for?

\"There is no difference between Jew and Gentile (non-Jews), for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,\" (Romans 3:22-23)

\"God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do NOT obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.\" (2 Thessalonians 1:6-10)

Dear No Kidding,
By the above, are you trying to imply that all non-christian will go to this place call \"Hell\"?

SH

[phtthp]

Dear No Kidding,


are you a Pastor or Catholic priest ?

[Melodies]

Easy. Look at the quotes in bibble, believed that there are many input from various people across different generations, races and different langugges! Different people would have different interpretation/translation and I don't believe bible is translated 100% of the messages from god if there is! It is well recognized that bibble is full of controversial.


From Jewish to Latin to english/ Chinese/etc...

For me, I'm non- christian n I take it with pinch of salt. I'm an non-christian. it is god that make me to be the one. I'd been attending bibble class since 9 years old but still there isn't any calling from god. After attending bibble class, I started to want to learn more about other religious.

phtthp:

Dear No Kidding,

are you a Pastor or Catholic priest ?

[tankee]

Mod’s Note


dear all

Just a word of caution before things get out of hand.

Whether or not all non-Christian will go to hell, is a vey sensitive topic and clearly out-of-topic of this thread.

Kindly choose your words carefully and read with an open mind.

There will always be different in opinions and believe. We do not need to agree with each other, nor force others to accept our opinions.

Thanks

[kwcllf]

No Kidding:

sacredmusicals:

Dream, I apologize for my last post to you. It must have been hard for you and I should not press you like that. You have made very good posts here that are very enlightening to both Christians and non Christians. If you do not mind, can you tackle one of the most controversial questions ever in Christianity?


Will all non Christians go to hell?

I myself am a Christian and honestly, I cannot answer this question. My Christian friends either give me the same standard answer or refused to discuss this. I was once asked this question by a non Christian and I was dumbfounded. I hope to see your views on this as I could feel god's wisdom in your words.

The question is not controversial at all. The Bible is very clear in its answer here:

\"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does NOT believe stands condemned already because they have NOT believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.\" (John 3:16-18)

\"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will NOT see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.\" (John 3:36)

Ask this one simply question: if Jesus did not die to save us from hell fire (which is what all who are born in sin deserves), then what did he die for?

\"There is no difference between Jew and Gentile (non-Jews), for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,\" (Romans 3:22-23)

\"God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do NOT obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.\" (2 Thessalonians 1:6-10)

I am a Buddhist. There are many teachings from different religions. And as far as I am concerned, the Buddha brought forth the True Law to save mankind and help us attain enlightenment - the ultimate goal of our lives. So, to imply tha non-Christians will go to hell is wide off the mark!

[Melodies]

I'm a Buddhist too! Is KH trying to pick and preached certain part of Bible and serves his purpose?

kwcllf:

No Kidding:

[quote=\"sacredmusicals\"]Dream, I apologize for my last post to you. It must have been hard for you and I should not press you like that. You have made very good posts here that are very enlightening to both Christians and non Christians. If you do not mind, can you tackle one of the most controversial questions ever in Christianity?

Will all non Christians go to hell?

I myself am a Christian and honestly, I cannot answer this question. My Christian friends either give me the same standard answer or refused to discuss this. I was once asked this question by a non Christian and I was dumbfounded. I hope to see your views on this as I could feel god's wisdom in your words.

The question is not controversial at all. The Bible is very clear in its answer here:

\"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does NOT believe stands condemned already because they have NOT believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.\" (John 3:16-18)

\"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will NOT see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.\" (John 3:36)

Ask this one simply question: if Jesus did not die to save us from hell fire (which is what all who are born in sin deserves), then what did he die for?

\"There is no difference between Jew and Gentile (non-Jews), for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,\" (Romans 3:22-23)

\"God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do NOT obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.\" (2 Thessalonians 1:6-10)

I am a Buddhist. There are many teachings from different religions. And as far as I am concerned, the Buddha brought forth the True Law to save mankind and help us attain enlightenment - the ultimate goal of our lives. So, to imply tha non-Christians will go to hell is wide off the mark![/quote]

[patagonia]

Is it that important to non-believers what the believers think? If one doesn’t believe in the religion, why does it matter what its followers believe in?


It shouldn’t matter if Buddhists believe in reincarnation or Christians believe others will go to hell. Ultimately, we need to respect the freedom to choose one’s religion and beliefs.

I believe we can and should engage in intellectual exchange of opinions in our beliefs and non-beliefs. For a society to mature and be truly gracious, we have to be able to discuss ‘sensitive’ issues in a civil and respectful manner instead of sweeping them under the carpet. However, it is not a zero sum game - no one needs win the argument!

My 5-year old nephew recently told my mum, "Por por, you can’t go to Heaven because you don’t go to church." My mum wasn’t offended, but was sad that he’s ‘brainwashed’ at such young age. In my mum’s simple and uneducated mind, kids should be given a chance to learn and be exposed to different religions before they make their own decision at a later stage. I totally agree.

[kwcllf]

patagonia:

Is it that important to non-believers what the believers think? If one doesn't believe in the religion, why does it matter what its followers believe in?


It shouldn't matter if Buddhists believe in reincarnation or Christians believe others will go to hell. Ultimately, we need to respect the freedom to choose one's religion and beliefs.

I believe we can and should engage in intellectual exchange of opinions in our beliefs and non-beliefs. For a society to mature and be truly gracious, we have to be able to discuss 'sensitive' issues in a civil and respectful manner instead of sweeping them under the carpet. However, it is not a zero sum game - no one needs win the argument!

My 5-year old nephew recently told my mum, \"Por por, you can't go to Heaven because you don't go to church.\" My mum wasn't offended, but was sad that he's 'brainwashed' at such young age. In my mum's simple and uneducated mind, kids should be given a chance to learn and be exposed to different religions before they make their own decision at a later stage. I totally agree.

Did your nephew pick that up from his childcare?

[concern2]

patagonia:

My 5-year old nephew recently told my mum, \"Por por, you can't go to Heaven because you don't go to church.\" My mum wasn't offended, but was sad that he's 'brainwashed' at such young age. In my mum's simple and uneducated mind, kids should be given a chance to learn and be exposed to different religions before they make their own decision at a later stage. I totally agree.

Thanks for sharing this, patagonia. My son also came back from school one day, asking me this question, \"Mummy, xxx said that if I am not a Christian, I will go to hell, is that true?\"

My answer to him was,\"Just be good, and do good deeds, be the best you can, and not to cause hurt or harm to others. When your time comes, whether you go to hell or go to heaven, it is for God to decide. We are still living on earth, so live your life well, don't be too overly concerned about these things.\"

He liked my answer and went away happily. Frankly, I was also caught off guard with that question, and it was the best I could come up with on the spot. Guess that's what I think unconsciously.

[empressplace]

信则有，不信则无。


So it depends on what you allow yourself to believe in. Ultimately everyone, other than the insane or with mental incapacities, is responsible for their own thoughts.

Younger people have less confidence and less experience to question what they are told. It is important to teach children independent thought and to have a healthy questioning atitude and also to have basic common sense. Once you are in a group, group dynamics take over and a person with a weaker mind will feel safety in numbers and conform to the majority view. And as they spend more time in the group to the exclusion of the outside world, the norms of the group become reality and they become disengaged with the outside world.

As we now live in an urban alienated environment, there are weaker community ties and young adults find themselves unconnected and without a rudder once they are out of school or even in school. Parents work late and have pressures of their own to deal with. Hence megachurches come in to fill this void. It’s not just spiritual needs but also social and emotional needs. The religious organisation’s primary role is spiritual and does not have to be the primary source of fulfilment of social and emotional needs.

Hence there is a real need for the government to look into expanding the outlets available for young adults and teenagers to fulfil these needs and not get them mixed up with religion. For example, humanitarian and charity work could be done by non religious organisations. These organisations could expand their reach to young adults to provide them with a healthy source of fulfilment as well as recreation. Outreach costs money and I suppose governmental authorities have more funding available than any mega church.