Suzuki Violin - Discussion
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Koolmama:
[/quote]I buy them from Popular lah - not Daiso. ;DHi Dasalo & others,
Does anyone know where we can find this pencil grip?? Been searching Daiso but couldn't find it there
dasalo:
[quote=\"karmeleon\"]By the way, I just use a pencil grip. S$2+ for packet of 6 or 8.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6084/6134744067_57223b2502_o.jpg![](\"http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6084/6134744067_ee50a6c906_m.jpg\")
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6084/6134744067_ee50a6c906_m.jpg\">
The front grip is to guide the thumb placement, and the back grip near the screw is for the pinky finger. Personally I prefer to use only the back one to remind pinkie-placement. Easy to take off/on. The pencil grip fits my little one's slim small violin bow snugly.
Brilliant! -
GREAT!! Thanks so much, Phankao!!
phankao:
[/quote]I buy them from Popular lah - not Daiso. ;D[/quote]dasalo:
[quote=\"karmeleon\"]By the way, I just use a pencil grip. S$2+ for packet of 6 or 8.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6084/6134744067_57223b2502_o.jpg
The front grip is to guide the thumb placement, and the back grip near the screw is for the pinky finger. Personally I prefer to use only the back one to remind pinkie-placement. Easy to take off/on. The pencil grip fits my little one's slim small violin bow snugly.
Brilliant! -
phankao:
My Wolfgang review: My girl completed Babybeats 1 (1 term) and is still with Wolfgang. As mentioned by phankao and Koolmama, Babybeats 1 is more a musical journey. For violin related, its mostly holding the bow and having a go at the violin, playing twinkle twinkle (ie teacher assisted playing). I agree that their lessons involving note reading is not effective.
My youngest did Baby Beats for 2 terms. I liked it when Teacher Annie taught. The Filipino teacher is alright. I liked the stress-free intro to violin. You CANNOT consider Baby Beats as a violin class at all. It's just a music playgroup with music dynamics & rhythm, just that violin is the focus for a few minutes of the class. There are some useful components like \"Bow Rocket\", \"Bow Bunny\", \"Finger Rock\", \"Windshield wiper\" ... etc. HOWEVER, like you've observed, they are not consistent. They should expand on these very useful finger/arm exercise sections that are focussed on future violin playing, but they only do it like once in a every few weeks. *sad*.Koolmama:
My younger child attended Wolfgang for a few lessons but she did not like the programme (she was in Baby Beats). Pedagogically, I find them weak and a bit inconsistent. And I don't like the fact that they are using many \"cheap\" foreign staff to teach in the school. About 90% of their staff are Filipino or Lao/Myanmarese(?)
....And if you don't get the Filipino admin staff (on the phone) who always talks like she doesn't understand your question, you get the other local girl who sounds too stuck-up :slapshead:
The stuck-up one you are referring to is probably \"Shien\". One of the Lee sisters. The youngest one, I think?!
Beatbeats 2 requires more maths (ie beat count) and emphasis on rhythm. We (parent n child) found the lessons alot harder. From simple bow hold, must know how to play the A string and E string. Getting my kid to play only the A string was hard. Weekend violin lessons were over!
It was more like 10 min everyday lessons! Why? First lesson was playing short notes \"A, A, A, E, E, E\", next lesson was adding on tempo... long short short, long short shot. I nearly *fainted*. Wolfgang also uses Suzuki method to teach (ie. A, A1, A2, A3, E, E1). Finger exercise now includes left hand specifics: tap thumb to finger, 1, 2, 3, 4 (ie ring finger) and then 4, 3, 2, 1.
I've not tried Mac (very tempted to since its nearer to my home) and I'm not keen to start her on 1-on-1 yet. Group exposure is still better at their age but I do feel heartpain when I'm paying $140 per month and lil missy gets 1/3 the time and attention. Consolation: with 3 kids in the class, there are also 2-3 \"teachers\" to assist the kids. I'm looking forward to the day she can play twinkle twinkle instead of \"killing pigs\". Meantime, practice lor ^.^ -
sylpha:
\"sylpha\", what do you mean by \"Weekend violin lessons were over!\" ? , and that it's \"more like 10 min everyday lessons!\"????
My Wolfgang review: My girl completed Babybeats 1 (1 term) and is still with Wolfgang. As mentioned by phankao and Koolmama, Babybeats 1 is more a musical journey. For violin related, its mostly holding the bow and having a go at the violin, playing twinkle twinkle (ie teacher assisted playing). I agree that their lessons involving note reading is not effective.
Beatbeats 2 requires more maths (ie beat count) and emphasis on rhythm. We (parent n child) found the lessons alot harder. From simple bow hold, must know how to play the A string and E string. Getting my kid to play only the A string was hard. Weekend violin lessons were over!
It was more like 10 min everyday lessons! Why? First lesson was playing short notes \"A, A, A, E, E, E\", next lesson was adding on tempo... long short short, long short shot. I nearly *fainted*. Wolfgang also uses Suzuki method to teach (ie. A, A1, A2, A3, E, E1). Finger exercise now includes left hand specifics: tap thumb to finger, 1, 2, 3, 4 (ie ring finger) and then 4, 3, 2, 1.
I've not tried Mac (very tempted to since its nearer to my home) and I'm not keen to start her on 1-on-1 yet. Group exposure is still better at their age but I do feel heartpain when I'm paying $140 per month and lil missy gets 1/3 the time and attention. Consolation: with 3 kids in the class, there are also 2-3 \"teachers\" to assist the kids. I'm looking forward to the day she can play twinkle twinkle instead of \"killing pigs\". Meantime, practice lor ^.^
The Babybeats 2 is also a weekly lesson isn't it? Thought it's also still a group lesson?
By the way, are you referring to the \"E-&-A\" String Exercise? That one is quite a standard \"Wolfgang Babybeats\" exercise - it's something like this, right?
http://youtu.be/ijN3fxM1Oaw
Your girl is about 3.5yo already, right? Can start Suzuki lessons - Mac's classes are very interesting, I hear. See how they use the short bowing and different variations to teach techniques - Mac explains a little here in this video where one of his beginner class students performed ... I found this video sometime back. So very very cute!!!
http://youtu.be/u_kcQZVlT4k
My boy started on Suzuki violin when he was about 3yrs-2mths, after stopping at Wolfgang's babybeats for a little while. He's learnt for just over half a year now and is halfway through Suzuki Book 1.
If Mac is near you, I'd say to go with Mac. I think it'd probably be way more fun! And the Suzuki philosophy is different and more geared towards the kids. -
phankao:
phankao!!!
\"sylpha\", what do you mean by \"Weekend violin lessons were over!\" ? , and that it's \"more like 10 min everyday lessons!\"????sylpha:
My Wolfgang review: My girl completed Babybeats 1 (1 term) and is still with Wolfgang. As mentioned by phankao and Koolmama, Babybeats 1 is more a musical journey. For violin related, its mostly holding the bow and having a go at the violin, playing twinkle twinkle (ie teacher assisted playing). I agree that their lessons involving note reading is not effective.
Beatbeats 2 requires more maths (ie beat count) and emphasis on rhythm. We (parent n child) found the lessons alot harder. From simple bow hold, must know how to play the A string and E string. Getting my kid to play only the A string was hard. Weekend violin lessons were over!
It was more like 10 min everyday lessons! Why? First lesson was playing short notes \"A, A, A, E, E, E\", next lesson was adding on tempo... long short short, long short shot. I nearly *fainted*. Wolfgang also uses Suzuki method to teach (ie. A, A1, A2, A3, E, E1). Finger exercise now includes left hand specifics: tap thumb to finger, 1, 2, 3, 4 (ie ring finger) and then 4, 3, 2, 1.
I've not tried Mac (very tempted to since its nearer to my home) and I'm not keen to start her on 1-on-1 yet. Group exposure is still better at their age but I do feel heartpain when I'm paying $140 per month and lil missy gets 1/3 the time and attention. Consolation: with 3 kids in the class, there are also 2-3 \"teachers\" to assist the kids. I'm looking forward to the day she can play twinkle twinkle instead of \"killing pigs\". Meantime, practice lor ^.^
The Babybeats 2 is also a weekly lesson isn't it? Thought it's also still a group lesson?
By the way, are you referring to the \"E-&-A\" String Exercise? That one is quite a standard \"Wolfgang Babybeats\" exercise - it's something like this, right?
http://youtu.be/ijN3fxM1Oaw
Your girl is about 3.5yo already, right? Can start Suzuki lessons - Mac's classes are very interesting, I hear. See how they use the short bowing and different variations to teach techniques - Mac explains a little here in this video where one of his beginner class students performed ... I found this video sometime back. So very very cute!!!
http://youtu.be/u_kcQZVlT4k
My boy started on Suzuki violin when he was about 3yrs-2mths, after stopping at Wolfgang's babybeats for a little while. He's learnt for just over half a year now and is halfway through Suzuki Book 1.
If Mac is near you, I'd say to go with Mac. I think it'd probably be way more fun! And the Suzuki philosophy is different and more geared towards the kids.
^.^ Its been awhile since we spoke ^.^
Is your boy using a 1/16?
For clarification, BB1 and BB2 are group lessons and its a group of max 6 (i think). I think Missy A is with Kinderviolin coz only 3 in a class.
BB1 is teacher assisted (bow and violin). Currently, she has to do the bowing by herself. A,A,A and E, E, E.
As for the 10 mins daily practice, I find that its a must to keep up with the lessons. I cant depend on her Sun class for her to progress and we have to keep up with the rest. If you want to see vids, I got loads on Missy A
Oso, I'm sharing what we learnt in class so that other parents can then decide if its worthehile to sign up for such classes. A lot of time is spent on hearing 3 kids go thru the \"AAA, EEE\" and \"Twinkle song\". Even if you sign up for classes, it takes lotsa practice to get better.
Since I signed up with Wolfgang for another term, I'm juz going to go with the flow. Is Missy A going to play twinkle twinkle in 12 lessons time? No. I dont see it happening.
Missy A finds it difficult to hold the violin properly w the left hand. She used to clutch the bottom of the violin. I suspect her current 1/16 is to long for her short arm. Oso, I cant get her to touch E1 w a bent elbow.
Anyhow, I'm still trying to find the right school with the right pace for her. I'll check with Mac if they have a space for her in 3 months time. -
sylpha:
Hi, sylpha ... yeah! My boy is now using a 1/16 which he just started using earlier this year after he had finished working on all the Twinkle Variations. When he first started formal lessons (after a few mths' break after Babybeats), he was still using the 1/32 violin.
phankao!!!
^.^ Its been awhile since we spoke ^.^
Is your boy using a 1/16?sylpha:
Even in Babybeats, they will encourage the child to play the tunes on their own as far as possible, wat.For clarification, BB1 and BB2 are group lessons and its a group of max 6 (i think). I think Missy A is with Kinderviolin coz only 3 in a class. BB1 is teacher assisted (bow and violin). Currently, she has to do the bowing by herself. A,A,A and E, E, E.
Okie, I'm familiar with Kinderviolin. My neighbour's son transferred to that after 1 term of Babybeats with my boy (he's older - my boy was the youngest in his Babybeats class at 2yrs' old). This neighbour boy stopped after a few months though. From my own observation, Kinderviolin seems somewhat dry. Personally I still prefer the Suzuki Curriculum and the Philosophy. Just seems more fun for the very very young, and allows them to understand faster.
You know that the reason why the 1st Suzuki variation for Twinkle starts with short-bowing? (for Wolfgang, that's the \"Watermelon-Apple\" Variation) ... Simply bc the beginner preschooler (eg. a 3yo) would find it hard to control long bowing. So many short-bowings was introduced as a variation by Dr Suzuki. At least with the short-bowings, the child is starting to play, and would be so proud of himself/herself! At the same time, the child is introduced to rhythm and 2 strings of the violin. There's just about a good reason for how Dr Suzuki put together the curriculum the way it is. Very wise.sylpha:
Of course it's a must to have daily practice, even if it is a short 5 to 10mins, if you've started on formal lessons - whether group or individual. Regular practices are better than infrequent but loooong practices. Anyway, our little ones won't have the attention span to do long practices .As for the 10 mins daily practice, I find that its a must to keep up with the lessons. I cant depend on her Sun class for her to progress and we have to keep up with the rest. If you want to see vids, I got loads on Missy A
Oso, I'm sharing what we learnt in class so that other parents can then decide if its worthehile to sign up for such classes. A lot of time is spent on hearing 3 kids go thru the \"AAA, EEE\" and \"Twinkle song\". Even if you sign up for classes, it takes lotsa practice to get better
Haha - I always love videos. ;D I wanted to put up a few videos of the Babybeats class, but then I realised that I'd only uploaded them to my FB and not to Youtube, so I won't share. I can't be bothered to single out the files and upload to youtube again.sylpha:
You'll be surprised. For kids this age, they would seem like they can't, and then suddenly one day can! So you might well be able to play twinkle in a few weeks. Maybe not the whole song.Since I signed up with Wolfgang for another term, I'm juz going to go with the flow. Is Missy A going to play twinkle twinkle in 12 lessons time? No. I dont see it happening.
Missy A finds it difficult to hold the violin properly w the left hand. She used to clutch the bottom of the violin. I suspect her current 1/16 is to long for her short arm. Oso, I cant get her to touch E1 w a bent elbow.
Try to break up the song and just work on bits & pieces at a time. eg. for Twinkle, I'd suggest you just work on getting her be able to just play the 1st 2 bars (the 1st line) first - \"Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star\" --> which is \"A-A E-E E1-E1 E\". Only when she is able to manage that, do you go on to the 2nd Line \"How I wonder what you are\" (A3-3-2-2-1-1-A). -
chuckle phankao… I’ll find time to upload some vids.
I guess I’m still not used to the Kinderviolin class. From BB1 to 1 class of BB2 and then straight into Kinderviolin group of 3. Lets see how it pans out.
Right now the milestone is (i) holding the violin properly w the left hand and (ii) bowing AAEE consistently. I leave the long short short, long short short to the teachers this Sunday. -
sylpha:
Maybe you can request at Mac's to sit in on their violin group class to see how it is. My friend highly recommends it - altho' I've never been since it's not exactly convenient for me. I've also read on someone's blog where she brought her son to sit in on Mac's group class (he doesn't do 1-to-1 lessons for the young ones).*chuckle* phankao... I'll find time to upload some vids.
I guess I'm still not used to the Kinderviolin class. From BB1 to 1 class of BB2 and then straight into Kinderviolin group of 3. Lets see how it pans out.
Right now the milestone is (i) holding the violin properly w the left hand and (ii) bowing AAEE consistently. I leave the long short short, long short short to the teachers this Sunday.
I was also sick of group classes (all the time wasted - tuning, sharing attention, doing nonsense) and took quite a long time finding a 1-to-1 teacher. Not easy to find a Suzuki tr willing to teach either for a 3yo. -
Not to diss the benefits of Suzuki learning, but many people don't know that group suzuki violin classes were \"invented\" by pioneering music schools here as an easy moneymaking machine - just put 10-12 people together in the same room, teach each child a little bit here and there, collect exorbitant fees for not imparting much knowledge, voila!
(a friend of mine had a child who took half a year in suzuki group class just to learn how to hold the violin properly! :yikes: )empressplace:
Mandeville is 12 maximum but when I enquired, there were only 6 in a class. For Mac Cheng's class, the room is so tiny that if he tried to increase any further, the kids would have to sit on parents' shoulders.
Anyway you are effectively paying $40++ for maximum 6 minutes of personal attention. It's more effective to get individual lessons and you save time. Being cooped up in that small room for 45 minutes with an uncooperative kid is really torture. Watching the teacher go through the technique with other kids in the class is just not how I want to spend my precious weekend. Sometimes, the teacher runs out of time or spends too much time on the first few kids and would rush through when it comes to your kid's turn! I would rather pay more and get it over and done with in say 20 - 30 minutes.
It's not easy to find teachers willing to teach kids under 4 so these Suzuki classes are popular with parents sold on the idea of early music education. But now, I see the reason why there are few classes catering to this age group. It's probably slow progress and difficult and many teachers do not want to go through it or face a situation where parents' expectations are unmet.znzyzyzx:
7 only ? That is so much better than mandeville.
But the way you described how the class is conducted sounds similar to Mandeville :roll:
I think would be better to just start straight with one to one with a good teacher if the kids is above 4. -
Koolmama:
I think this depends on your child's teacher?!!!
(a friend of mine had a child who took half a year in suzuki group class just to learn how to hold the violin properly! :yikes: )
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