City Harvest's founder Kong Hee & 4 others arrested/charged
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No Kidding:
What other people do may not be right to discuss it openly in such a forum, especially about religion, which is a sensitive topic.I merely put forth my point on what others brought up. If they have the liberty to do that, I should be accorded the same. I've also deliberately limited and straitjacketed myself to using only Bible verses.
If people are interested in knowing more, they can easily google the verses.
If this is a forum on religion where I've a freer hand, I would have done a far more thorough exposition.
As I have mentioned, and not only me in this thread, if you want to quote other religions vis-a-vis your own, you should put it in the proper context.
Yes, people who want to know more can google for whatever verses they want. That's perfectly fine. But it is not when they put their verses together with other religions in such vague manners.
If you feel you have been straight-jacket about your religious belief, you can always start a new thread specifically for that and only that. Leave out other religions if one is not familiar with them. -
No Kidding:
What is his motive for giving all? Is it because he bought into the idea that he will get more in return?cmm:
Let's get back to the topic.
I had a close friend who confided in me her brother, the youngest in the family, had emptied his bank account to give to CHC. This family is not well to do.
As I follow the news on this group, somehow I'm reminded of a book I read for literature lessons during my school days - Animal Farm.
\"Four legs good, two legs bad\".
When a Christian gives to God, it is an act of worship. It is a way of saying thank you to God for what God has already given to him.
If he gives hoping to get more in return, that is no longer worship. But TRADING with God.
What his motive was at that time, I seriously don't know. Only God can read man's true motives. But I do agree with your point about giving more and expecting to get more back in return. That's why I'm totally against Prosperity Gospel. -
Lilac66:
Now you understand why CHC bought a large share of SUNtec City?
Pls don't , soli soli :salute: I take back my words. We can't go without the Sun albeit the right SunSun_2010:
Dun worry :grphug: I am thick skinned, have all the fun with the sun.
I like the pun - \"Sun is getting scorched\"
BTW, my name in the real world is not Sun.
Ok, now I will become the silent lurker in the virtual world.
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SilentHermit:
I also said \"Or for the sake of the discussion, whatever we believe in are all wrong and untrue? \"[/quote]The issue here is whether you'll have the peace of mind allowing your kids to run after another person who sounds convincing. Or they'll come and check with you for your take on the issue.
Very curious why only Buddhism is mentioned although you may be speaking hypothetically.kwcllf:
[quote=\"SilentHermit\"]
Hmmm.. yes imperative that we must build a close bond and trust with our kids.. so that they can trust us.. but what happen if our own beliefs are also wrong? What if we are believing in the wrong thing ourselves? Lets say we are a believer of Buddhist practice but in reality Buddhism is not true? Or we believe in God but there is no God? Or for the sake of the discussion, whatever we believe in are all wrong and untrue?
So shouldn't it be more important that we we look at what we are practicing first, whether it is right or wrong? Or can we? Are we open minded enough even to explore that? Or are our minds cast in stone already? Or should we just leave it to the kids to discover themselves and decide for themselves?
This is something you'll have to grapple with. -
SilentHermit:
Soka?Finally, think I may as well state that I am a Buddhist (Nichiren Buddhism - there are so many school of thoughts, so i better be specific), although I may sympathize with the famous 5's and their family's current situations..
SH -
Hmmm… yes imperative that we must build a close bond and trust with our kids… so that they can trust us… but what happen if our own beliefs are also wrong? What if we are believing in the wrong thing ourselves? Lets say we are a believer of Buddhist practice but in reality Buddhism is not true? Or we believe in God but there is no God? Or for the sake of the discussion, whatever we believe in are all wrong and untrue?
So shouldn’t it be more important that we we look at what we are practicing first, whether it is right or wrong? Or can we? Are we open minded enough even to explore that? Or are our minds cast in stone already? Or should we just leave it to the kids to discover themselves and decide for themselves?[/quote]
Very curious why only Buddhism is mentioned although you may be speaking hypothetically.[/quote]
I also said "Or for the sake of the discussion, whatever we believe in are all wrong and untrue? "[/quote]
The issue here is whether you’ll have the peace of mind allowing your kids to run after another person who sounds convincing. Or they’ll come and check with you for your take on the issue.
This is something you’ll have to grapple with.[/quote]
I suppose if they need my advice, I will tell them what I know, things that I have learned in my life time and ask them to do their own investigation to find the route for themselves. Ultimately I will die and they have to be responsible for themselves and their next generation. The most I can do is probably to specify some criteria that he may want to use while doing his investigations lor… (I have a post on my criteria here too).
What would you do if you’re consulted by your kids in future? -
kwcllf:
Yes sir/ma'am, I am practicing Nichiren Buddhism with Singapore Soka Association..
Soka?SilentHermit:
Finally, think I may as well state that I am a Buddhist (Nichiren Buddhism - there are so many school of thoughts, so i better be specific), although I may sympathize with the famous 5's and their family's current situations..
SH -
cmm:
What his motive was at that time, I seriously don't know. Only God can read man's true motives. But I do agree with your point about giving more and expecting to get more back in return. That's why I'm totally against Prosperity Gospel.[/quote]The Prosperity Gospel is NO gospel at all. Jesus never taught that. It's NEVER a part of Christianity. In fact, it's carnality dressed in Christian garb.
What is his motive for giving all? Is it because he bought into the idea that he will get more in return?No Kidding:
[quote=\"cmm\"]Let's get back to the topic.
I had a close friend who confided in me her brother, the youngest in the family, had emptied his bank account to give to CHC. This family is not well to do.
As I follow the news on this group, somehow I'm reminded of a book I read for literature lessons during my school days - Animal Farm.
\"Four legs good, two legs bad\".
When a Christian gives to God, it is an act of worship. It is a way of saying thank you to God for what God has already given to him.
If he gives hoping to get more in return, that is no longer worship. But TRADING with God. -
SilentHermit:
Very curious why only Buddhism is mentioned although you may be speaking hypothetically.[/quote]Hmmm.. yes imperative that we must build a close bond and trust with our kids.. so that they can trust us.. but what happen if our own beliefs are also wrong? What if we are believing in the wrong thing ourselves? Lets say we are a believer of Buddhist practice but in reality Buddhism is not true? Or we believe in God but there is no God? Or for the sake of the discussion, whatever we believe in are all wrong and untrue?
So shouldn't it be more important that we we look at what we are practicing first, whether it is right or wrong? Or can we? Are we open minded enough even to explore that? Or are our minds cast in stone already? Or should we just leave it to the kids to discover themselves and decide for themselves?
I also said \"Or for the sake of the discussion, whatever we believe in are all wrong and untrue? \"[/quote]
The issue here is whether you'll have the peace of mind allowing your kids to run after another person who sounds convincing. Or they'll come and check with you for your take on the issue.
This is something you'll have to grapple with.[/quote]
I suppose if they need my advice, I will tell them what I know, things that I have learned in my life time and ask them to do their own investigation to find the route for themselves. Ultimately I will die and they have to be responsible for themselves and their next generation. The most I can do is probably to specify some criteria that he may want to use while doing his investigations lor.. (I have a post on my criteria here too).
What would you do if you're consulted by your kids in future?[/quote]
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The problem is whether your relationship with them is close enough that they'll bother to seek your advice. Normally, their peers have the upper hand. If all of them fall for the conman, she/he will feel pressured to fall in line for fear of losing friends. -
Here is something I have read ... in fact City Harvest and Kong Hee seems to have relatively strong ties with a tele-evangelist called Benny Hinn. Apparently Benny Hinn was invited to City Harvest to preach in 2008.
For those who don't know who Benny Hinn is, he is in fact one of the greatest con artist masquerading as a pastor. He even owns a private jet and claims he can heal all sicknesses using 'faith healing' which is never proven.
Here is an excerpt of Benny Hinn and what his church does.
‘God bless your credit card’
Johannesburg - God’s blessing would last only two minutes and it would create 500 churchgoing millionaires or even billionaires - all they had to do was use their credit cards to pay $1 000 in offerings to televangelist Benny Hinn.
Pastor Tommie Ferreira of the AGS Church in Johannesburg was so upset about the “blessing” that, after a week, he wanted to know who of the donors actually had become millionaires.
Ferreira told Rapport he did not mean to bring about Hinn’s downfall.
He merely wanted to know if any of the hundreds of churchgoers who donated amounts of up to $1 000 (about R7 500) to Hinn’s Miracle Crusade last week Saturday had now become millionaires.
About 18 000 people streamed to the Coca-Cola Dome in Randburg to hear Hinn’s message of healing and miracles.
Ferreira, who is a keen choir singer, voluntarily sang in the Miracle Crusade’s choir. He said one of Hinn’s American guest speakers, Pastor Todd Koontz, spoke about financial burdens and said 500 audience members would receive “an exceptional blessing”.
“He said the service would yield millionaires and billionaires within 24 hours.
“Everyone had to donate $1 000 because an exceptional blessing rested on $1 000.”
Koontz apparently really had the congregation scrambling when he said, “This blessing will be poured out for only two minutes.”
Ferreira said: “People stormed to the front - poor people, rich people, people from all sections of our society.”
Hinn’s co-pastors apparently had credit-card machines ready with which they could take donations.
“He (Koontz) said God would bless the people’s credit cards and they would be able to rule over South Africa with their money. Eventually there were no fewer than 1 000 people who made such donations.”
According to Ferreira’s calculations, Hinn must have collected millions of rands with these donations - perhaps more than R7m if each of the 1 000 church-goers donated $1 000 in the hope of becoming millionaires.
Furthermore, after Koontz’s collection of the $1 000 donations, Hinn collected general donations.
Dr Sarel Smit of the AGS church Lofstad in Hursthill, Johannesburg, who supported Ferreira as he spoke to Rapport, was equally worried about the method by which Hinn collected donations.
“Especially at a time like this when there is dire need, people run the risk of losing their faith in the Lord in this way. God will provide for your needs, but not your greed.”
Rapport spoke to an employee in Hinn’s South African office in Durban who said on Friday morning that they were still busy collecting money. \"
This guy has been exposed as a fraud and the amazing thing is he can still be so successful sucking money from unsuspecting, helpless people.
For people who are interested to know about him, you can check out this link and all evidences against Benny Hinn.
http://www.blog.joelx.com/pastor-benny-hinn-fraud-scam-divorce/4863/
I really hope people can do their own research about their church leaders and their teachings before blindly following and handing over hard earned money that can be put to greater use.
And for CHC members, is it not strange that your church associates with someone like that? Does it not reflect on the views of your church leaders?
my two cents,
kc
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