City Harvest's founder Kong Hee & 4 others arrested/charged
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SilentHermit:
Soka?Finally, think I may as well state that I am a Buddhist (Nichiren Buddhism - there are so many school of thoughts, so i better be specific), although I may sympathize with the famous 5's and their family's current situations..
SH -
Hmmm… yes imperative that we must build a close bond and trust with our kids… so that they can trust us… but what happen if our own beliefs are also wrong? What if we are believing in the wrong thing ourselves? Lets say we are a believer of Buddhist practice but in reality Buddhism is not true? Or we believe in God but there is no God? Or for the sake of the discussion, whatever we believe in are all wrong and untrue?
So shouldn’t it be more important that we we look at what we are practicing first, whether it is right or wrong? Or can we? Are we open minded enough even to explore that? Or are our minds cast in stone already? Or should we just leave it to the kids to discover themselves and decide for themselves?[/quote]
Very curious why only Buddhism is mentioned although you may be speaking hypothetically.[/quote]
I also said "Or for the sake of the discussion, whatever we believe in are all wrong and untrue? "[/quote]
The issue here is whether you’ll have the peace of mind allowing your kids to run after another person who sounds convincing. Or they’ll come and check with you for your take on the issue.
This is something you’ll have to grapple with.[/quote]
I suppose if they need my advice, I will tell them what I know, things that I have learned in my life time and ask them to do their own investigation to find the route for themselves. Ultimately I will die and they have to be responsible for themselves and their next generation. The most I can do is probably to specify some criteria that he may want to use while doing his investigations lor… (I have a post on my criteria here too).
What would you do if you’re consulted by your kids in future? -
kwcllf:
Yes sir/ma'am, I am practicing Nichiren Buddhism with Singapore Soka Association..
Soka?SilentHermit:
Finally, think I may as well state that I am a Buddhist (Nichiren Buddhism - there are so many school of thoughts, so i better be specific), although I may sympathize with the famous 5's and their family's current situations..
SH -
cmm:
What his motive was at that time, I seriously don't know. Only God can read man's true motives. But I do agree with your point about giving more and expecting to get more back in return. That's why I'm totally against Prosperity Gospel.[/quote]The Prosperity Gospel is NO gospel at all. Jesus never taught that. It's NEVER a part of Christianity. In fact, it's carnality dressed in Christian garb.
What is his motive for giving all? Is it because he bought into the idea that he will get more in return?No Kidding:
[quote=\"cmm\"]Let's get back to the topic.
I had a close friend who confided in me her brother, the youngest in the family, had emptied his bank account to give to CHC. This family is not well to do.
As I follow the news on this group, somehow I'm reminded of a book I read for literature lessons during my school days - Animal Farm.
\"Four legs good, two legs bad\".
When a Christian gives to God, it is an act of worship. It is a way of saying thank you to God for what God has already given to him.
If he gives hoping to get more in return, that is no longer worship. But TRADING with God. -
SilentHermit:
Very curious why only Buddhism is mentioned although you may be speaking hypothetically.[/quote]Hmmm.. yes imperative that we must build a close bond and trust with our kids.. so that they can trust us.. but what happen if our own beliefs are also wrong? What if we are believing in the wrong thing ourselves? Lets say we are a believer of Buddhist practice but in reality Buddhism is not true? Or we believe in God but there is no God? Or for the sake of the discussion, whatever we believe in are all wrong and untrue?
So shouldn't it be more important that we we look at what we are practicing first, whether it is right or wrong? Or can we? Are we open minded enough even to explore that? Or are our minds cast in stone already? Or should we just leave it to the kids to discover themselves and decide for themselves?
I also said \"Or for the sake of the discussion, whatever we believe in are all wrong and untrue? \"[/quote]
The issue here is whether you'll have the peace of mind allowing your kids to run after another person who sounds convincing. Or they'll come and check with you for your take on the issue.
This is something you'll have to grapple with.[/quote]
I suppose if they need my advice, I will tell them what I know, things that I have learned in my life time and ask them to do their own investigation to find the route for themselves. Ultimately I will die and they have to be responsible for themselves and their next generation. The most I can do is probably to specify some criteria that he may want to use while doing his investigations lor.. (I have a post on my criteria here too).
What would you do if you're consulted by your kids in future?[/quote]
-------
The problem is whether your relationship with them is close enough that they'll bother to seek your advice. Normally, their peers have the upper hand. If all of them fall for the conman, she/he will feel pressured to fall in line for fear of losing friends. -
Here is something I have read ... in fact City Harvest and Kong Hee seems to have relatively strong ties with a tele-evangelist called Benny Hinn. Apparently Benny Hinn was invited to City Harvest to preach in 2008.
For those who don't know who Benny Hinn is, he is in fact one of the greatest con artist masquerading as a pastor. He even owns a private jet and claims he can heal all sicknesses using 'faith healing' which is never proven.
Here is an excerpt of Benny Hinn and what his church does.
‘God bless your credit card’
Johannesburg - God’s blessing would last only two minutes and it would create 500 churchgoing millionaires or even billionaires - all they had to do was use their credit cards to pay $1 000 in offerings to televangelist Benny Hinn.
Pastor Tommie Ferreira of the AGS Church in Johannesburg was so upset about the “blessing” that, after a week, he wanted to know who of the donors actually had become millionaires.
Ferreira told Rapport he did not mean to bring about Hinn’s downfall.
He merely wanted to know if any of the hundreds of churchgoers who donated amounts of up to $1 000 (about R7 500) to Hinn’s Miracle Crusade last week Saturday had now become millionaires.
About 18 000 people streamed to the Coca-Cola Dome in Randburg to hear Hinn’s message of healing and miracles.
Ferreira, who is a keen choir singer, voluntarily sang in the Miracle Crusade’s choir. He said one of Hinn’s American guest speakers, Pastor Todd Koontz, spoke about financial burdens and said 500 audience members would receive “an exceptional blessing”.
“He said the service would yield millionaires and billionaires within 24 hours.
“Everyone had to donate $1 000 because an exceptional blessing rested on $1 000.”
Koontz apparently really had the congregation scrambling when he said, “This blessing will be poured out for only two minutes.”
Ferreira said: “People stormed to the front - poor people, rich people, people from all sections of our society.”
Hinn’s co-pastors apparently had credit-card machines ready with which they could take donations.
“He (Koontz) said God would bless the people’s credit cards and they would be able to rule over South Africa with their money. Eventually there were no fewer than 1 000 people who made such donations.”
According to Ferreira’s calculations, Hinn must have collected millions of rands with these donations - perhaps more than R7m if each of the 1 000 church-goers donated $1 000 in the hope of becoming millionaires.
Furthermore, after Koontz’s collection of the $1 000 donations, Hinn collected general donations.
Dr Sarel Smit of the AGS church Lofstad in Hursthill, Johannesburg, who supported Ferreira as he spoke to Rapport, was equally worried about the method by which Hinn collected donations.
“Especially at a time like this when there is dire need, people run the risk of losing their faith in the Lord in this way. God will provide for your needs, but not your greed.”
Rapport spoke to an employee in Hinn’s South African office in Durban who said on Friday morning that they were still busy collecting money. \"
This guy has been exposed as a fraud and the amazing thing is he can still be so successful sucking money from unsuspecting, helpless people.
For people who are interested to know about him, you can check out this link and all evidences against Benny Hinn.
http://www.blog.joelx.com/pastor-benny-hinn-fraud-scam-divorce/4863/
I really hope people can do their own research about their church leaders and their teachings before blindly following and handing over hard earned money that can be put to greater use.
And for CHC members, is it not strange that your church associates with someone like that? Does it not reflect on the views of your church leaders?
my two cents,
kc -
No Kidding:
I also said \"Or for the sake of the discussion, whatever we believe in are all wrong and untrue? \"[/quote]
Very curious why only Buddhism is mentioned although you may be speaking hypothetically.SilentHermit:
Hmmm.. yes imperative that we must build a close bond and trust with our kids.. so that they can trust us.. but what happen if our own beliefs are also wrong? What if we are believing in the wrong thing ourselves? Lets say we are a believer of Buddhist practice but in reality Buddhism is not true? Or we believe in God but there is no God? Or for the sake of the discussion, whatever we believe in are all wrong and untrue?
So shouldn't it be more important that we we look at what we are practicing first, whether it is right or wrong? Or can we? Are we open minded enough even to explore that? Or are our minds cast in stone already? Or should we just leave it to the kids to discover themselves and decide for themselves?
The issue here is whether you'll have the peace of mind allowing your kids to run after another person who sounds convincing. Or they'll come and check with you for your take on the issue.
This is something you'll have to grapple with.[/quote]
I suppose if they need my advice, I will tell them what I know, things that I have learned in my life time and ask them to do their own investigation to find the route for themselves. Ultimately I will die and they have to be responsible for themselves and their next generation. The most I can do is probably to specify some criteria that he may want to use while doing his investigations lor.. (I have a post on my criteria here too).
What would you do if you're consulted by your kids in future?[/quote]
-------
The problem is whether your relationship with them is close enough that they'll bother to seek your advice. Normally, their peers have the upper hand. If all of them fall for the conman, she/he will feel pressured to fall in line for fear of losing friends.[/quote]
Yes No Kidding, you raise a very valid point. I do not remember seeking my parent's views in the past when it comes to religion, I wonder if my kids will ever feel there's a need to talk to me about it in future.. anyway now they are so young and I guess I will only know in time to come.. meanwhile, I can only pray daily for his well being.
I have twin boys, the elder one is very close to my maid, follow by his sister, then me, then the mother (yes, the mother i rank last cos I think she gives most attention to the eldest gal lol.. very kelong..). Last night the elder boy had a nightmare and woke up screaming. He shouted for me very loudly and I rushed to him and we hugged each other. I assured him it was just a bad dream, he nodded and went back to bed. If only he could do the same when he is older and in some kind of needs, I will feel great hehehehe... -
Sun sang China Wine to draw non believers to Christ. Her video on China Wine really a disgrace and disgusting. She should sing Jesus turned water into wine than there will be no controversy. I wonder how the judge is going to rule on this.
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kctan:
No wonder. KH has learned from the best of the best conman.Here is something I have read ... in fact City Harvest and Kong Hee seems to have relatively strong ties with a tele-evangelist called Benny Hinn. Apparently Benny Hinn was invited to City Harvest to preach in 2008.
For those who don't know who Benny Hinn is, he is in fact one of the greatest con artist masquerading as a pastor. He even owns a private jet and claims he can heal all sicknesses using 'faith healing' which is never proven.
Here is an excerpt of Benny Hinn and what his church does.
‘God bless your credit card’
Johannesburg - God’s blessing would last only two minutes and it would create 500 churchgoing millionaires or even billionaires - all they had to do was use their credit cards to pay $1 000 in offerings to televangelist Benny Hinn.
Pastor Tommie Ferreira of the AGS Church in Johannesburg was so upset about the “blessing” that, after a week, he wanted to know who of the donors actually had become millionaires.
Ferreira told Rapport he did not mean to bring about Hinn’s downfall.
He merely wanted to know if any of the hundreds of churchgoers who donated amounts of up to $1 000 (about R7 500) to Hinn’s Miracle Crusade last week Saturday had now become millionaires.
About 18 000 people streamed to the Coca-Cola Dome in Randburg to hear Hinn’s message of healing and miracles.
Ferreira, who is a keen choir singer, voluntarily sang in the Miracle Crusade’s choir. He said one of Hinn’s American guest speakers, Pastor Todd Koontz, spoke about financial burdens and said 500 audience members would receive “an exceptional blessing”.
“He said the service would yield millionaires and billionaires within 24 hours.
“Everyone had to donate $1 000 because an exceptional blessing rested on $1 000.”
Koontz apparently really had the congregation scrambling when he said, “This blessing will be poured out for only two minutes.”
Ferreira said: “People stormed to the front - poor people, rich people, people from all sections of our society.”
Hinn’s co-pastors apparently had credit-card machines ready with which they could take donations.
“He (Koontz) said God would bless the people’s credit cards and they would be able to rule over South Africa with their money. Eventually there were no fewer than 1 000 people who made such donations.”
According to Ferreira’s calculations, Hinn must have collected millions of rands with these donations - perhaps more than R7m if each of the 1 000 church-goers donated $1 000 in the hope of becoming millionaires.
Furthermore, after Koontz’s collection of the $1 000 donations, Hinn collected general donations.
Dr Sarel Smit of the AGS church Lofstad in Hursthill, Johannesburg, who supported Ferreira as he spoke to Rapport, was equally worried about the method by which Hinn collected donations.
“Especially at a time like this when there is dire need, people run the risk of losing their faith in the Lord in this way. God will provide for your needs, but not your greed.”
Rapport spoke to an employee in Hinn’s South African office in Durban who said on Friday morning that they were still busy collecting money. \"
This guy has been exposed as a fraud and the amazing thing is he can still be so successful sucking money from unsuspecting, helpless people.
For people who are interested to know about him, you can check out this link and all
evidences against Benny Hinn.
http://www.blog.joelx.com/pastor-benny-hinn-fraud-scam-divorce/4863/
I really hope people can do their own research about their church leaders and their teachings before blindly following and handing over hard earned money that can be put to greater use.
And for CHC members, is it not strange that your church associates with someone like that? Does it not reflect on the views of your church leaders?
my two cents,
kc -
SilentHermit:
Hmmm.. yes imperative that we must build a close bond and trust with our kids.. so that they can trust us.. but what happen if our own beliefs are also wrong? What if we are believing in the wrong thing ourselves? Lets say we are a believer of Buddhist practice but in reality Buddhism is not true? Or we believe in God but there is no God? Or for the sake of the discussion, whatever we believe in are all wrong and untrue?
So shouldn't it be more important that we we look at what we are practicing first, whether it is right or wrong? Or can we? Are we open minded enough even to explore that? Or are our minds cast in stone already? Or should we just leave it to the kids to discover themselves and decide for themselves?No Kidding:
The issue here is whether you'll have the peace of mind allowing your kids to run after another person who sounds convincing. Or they'll come and check with you for your take on the issue.
This is something you'll have to grapple with.SilentHermit:
I suppose if they need my advice, I will tell them what I know, things that I have learned in my life time and ask them to do their own investigation to find the route for themselves. Ultimately I will die and they have to be responsible for themselves and their next generation. The most I can do is probably to specify some criteria that he may want to use while doing his investigations lor.. (I have a post on my criteria here too).
What would you do if you're consulted by your kids in future?No Kidding:
The problem is whether your relationship with them is close enough that they'll bother to seek your advice. Normally, their peers have the upper hand. If all of them fall for the conman, she/he will feel pressured to fall in line for fear of losing friends.
SilentHermit:
Yes No Kidding, you raise a very valid point. I do not remember seeking my parent's views in the past when it comes to religion, I wonder if my kids will ever feel there's a need to talk to me about it in future.. anyway now they are so young and I guess I will only know in time to come.. meanwhile, I can only pray daily for his well being.
I have twin boys, the elder one is very close to my maid, follow by his sister, then me, then the mother (yes, the mother i rank last cos I think she gives most attention to the eldest gal lol.. very kelong..). Last night the elder boy had a nightmare and woke up screaming. He shouted for me very loudly and I rushed to him and we hugged each other. I assured him it was just a bad dream, he nodded and went back to bed. If only he could do the same when he is older and in some kind of needs, I will feel great hehehehe...
I'm heartened to hear that he screamed for you. Not for the maid!
Research have shown that the father has a greater influence on a child.
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