City Harvest's founder Kong Hee & 4 others arrested/charged
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SilentHermit:
Hmmm.. yes imperative that we must build a close bond and trust with our kids.. so that they can trust us.. but what happen if our own beliefs are also wrong? What if we are believing in the wrong thing ourselves? Lets say we are a believer of Buddhist practice but in reality Buddhism is not true? Or we believe in God but there is no God? Or for the sake of the discussion, whatever we believe in are all wrong and untrue?
So shouldn't it be more important that we we look at what we are practicing first, whether it is right or wrong? Or can we? Are we open minded enough even to explore that? Or are our minds cast in stone already? Or should we just leave it to the kids to discover themselves and decide for themselves?No Kidding:
The issue here is whether you'll have the peace of mind allowing your kids to run after another person who sounds convincing. Or they'll come and check with you for your take on the issue.
This is something you'll have to grapple with.SilentHermit:
I suppose if they need my advice, I will tell them what I know, things that I have learned in my life time and ask them to do their own investigation to find the route for themselves. Ultimately I will die and they have to be responsible for themselves and their next generation. The most I can do is probably to specify some criteria that he may want to use while doing his investigations lor.. (I have a post on my criteria here too).
What would you do if you're consulted by your kids in future?No Kidding:
The problem is whether your relationship with them is close enough that they'll bother to seek your advice. Normally, their peers have the upper hand. If all of them fall for the conman, she/he will feel pressured to fall in line for fear of losing friends.
SilentHermit:
Yes No Kidding, you raise a very valid point. I do not remember seeking my parent's views in the past when it comes to religion, I wonder if my kids will ever feel there's a need to talk to me about it in future.. anyway now they are so young and I guess I will only know in time to come.. meanwhile, I can only pray daily for his well being.
I have twin boys, the elder one is very close to my maid, follow by his sister, then me, then the mother (yes, the mother i rank last cos I think she gives most attention to the eldest gal lol.. very kelong..). Last night the elder boy had a nightmare and woke up screaming. He shouted for me very loudly and I rushed to him and we hugged each other. I assured him it was just a bad dream, he nodded and went back to bed. If only he could do the same when he is older and in some kind of needs, I will feel great hehehehe...
I'm heartened to hear that he screamed for you. Not for the maid!
Research have shown that the father has a greater influence on a child. -
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The problem is whether your relationship with them is close enough that they'll bother to seek your advice. Normally, their peers have the upper hand. If all of them fall for the conman, she/he will feel pressured to fall in line for fear of losing friends.[/quote]
Yes No Kidding, you raise a very valid point. I do not remember seeking my parent's views in the past when it comes to religion, I wonder if my kids will ever feel there's a need to talk to me about it in future.. anyway now they are so young and I guess I will only know in time to come.. meanwhile, I can only pray daily for his well being.
I have twin boys, the elder one is very close to my maid, follow by his sister, then me, then the mother (yes, the mother i rank last cos I think she gives most attention to the eldest gal lol.. very kelong..). Last night the elder boy had a nightmare and woke up screaming. He shouted for me very loudly and I rushed to him and we hugged each other. I assured him it was just a bad dream, he nodded and went back to bed. If only he could do the same when he is older and in some kind of needs, I will feel great hehehehe...[/quote]
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I'm heartened to hear that he screamed for you. Not for the maid!
Research have shown that the father has a greater influence on a child.[/quote]
On second thought.. was he screaming \"Pa Pa\" because he saw me chasing him with a cane in his dream? lol... that would be very bad.. -
I believe CHC has to pay a lot of money to bring in well known foreign preachers to Singapore to preach. I wonder how CHC treat them while they were in Singapore? Where do these foreign preachers stayed in Singapore? Maybe 5 or 6 stars hotel in Singapore? Where do they have their meals? Maybe in a resturant that serve shark fin soups, Singapore famous Chilli crabs etc at the expense of the church members donation. This money if being used wisely, can help and feed the poor around the world. It is not wrong for KH to live in Sentosa Cove if the money is really his own hard work and is God’s blessing. However, if this is not from his own pocket, than I said this money if it is used wisely can house many poor people in Singapore who are struggling to own a decent HDB house. The church need not have to travel so far as to America to reach out.
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There was this famous Chinese author called Li Ao who made a comparison of all the chinese in different countries and Singapore is considered "Stupid" to him…Now, I know why…so many happily gave their hard-earned sweat money to con men.
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No Kidding:
The problem is whether your relationship with them is close enough that they'll bother to seek your advice. Normally, their peers have the upper hand. If all of them fall for the conman, she/he will feel pressured to fall in line for fear of losing friends.SilentHermit:
Yes No Kidding, you raise a very valid point. I do not remember seeking my parent's views in the past when it comes to religion, I wonder if my kids will ever feel there's a need to talk to me about it in future.. anyway now they are so young and I guess I will only know in time to come.. meanwhile, I can only pray daily for his well being.
I have twin boys, the elder one is very close to my maid, follow by his sister, then me, then the mother (yes, the mother i rank last cos I think she gives most attention to the eldest gal lol.. very kelong..). Last night the elder boy had a nightmare and woke up screaming. He shouted for me very loudly and I rushed to him and we hugged each other. I assured him it was just a bad dream, he nodded and went back to bed. If only he could do the same when he is older and in some kind of needs, I will feel great hehehehe...No Kidding:
I'm heartened to hear that he screamed for you. Not for the maid!
Research have shown that the father has a greater influence on a child.SilentHermit:
Sugar cane? Isn't that sweet?On second thought.. was he screaming \"Pa Pa\" because he saw me chasing him with a cane in his dream? lol... that would be very bad..
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Personally I found this note quite balance and I agree that we should not be too harsh on the CHC people because I think they also shocked and maybe got some knee jerk reactions. Imagine you follow this leader for so many years or even decade plus then someone turn around and say this man is no longer trustworthy. Need some time to reconcile. Or maybe he will be innocent in the end?
http://www.tremeritus.com/2012/07/04/i-too-believe-in-the-crossover/
[quote]As the public debate and online war rages on between supporters of Kong Hee and Sun Ho and others who have formed an opinion about the couple, it is perhaps timely of us remind ourselves what this whole case is about. As I will quote Straits Times below, it might attract some detractors who think ST is not an objective outlet. Yes, ST does have its leanings but who can claim complete objectivity? Karl Polanyi? I find ST version in this incident rather accurate:
“The criminal breach of trust charges brought against the five leaders are plainly neither about the church itself nor the Project Cross…the church which would be able carry on with its religious work unimpeded…
The issue before the courts is one of governance. At issue is not a question of whether church members minded that their money was used to support the music career of their pastor’s wife. The central question is whether funds were diverted without the knowledge of the church’s executive members. If so, who knew what, when and why?
Nor is it a matter of whether the funds used were eventually returned. A crime would have been committed if funds were diverted for uses that the church’s executive leadership was kept in the dark about..”
Coming from a Christian background and also someone who has attended mega-church, I can understand and agree with the goals of a project like Crossover where Christians are encouraged and marketed to excel in the secular world so that they can have a positive effect on society and gain new converts. After all, we are asked by the Bible to be the salt and light of this world. Of course, the process of gaining new converts cannot be abrasive nor forceful, and Christians proselytizing should influence others through their actions rather than “hard sell”.
Sir Cliff Richard, British pop singer, musician, performer, actor, and philanthropist is also a very active Christian and has constantly dedicated his work to the body of Christ. Sir Cliff has sold more singles in the UK than any other artist. He’s also the only artist to have number one singles in five decades. Cliff has 67 Top 10 hits to his name. His positive influence on pop culture is such a rarity in the modern world where consumerism and sex sells records more often than not...[/quote] -
kctan:
When a person is deceived, their reasoning faculties refuse to entertain alternative views to the contrary. It's like a person who closes his eyes tightly and swears that light does not exist. When they are with like-minded people, each will affirm the other in their deception, urging each other not to open their eyes.Here is something I have read ... in fact City Harvest and Kong Hee seems to have relatively strong ties with a tele-evangelist called Benny Hinn. Apparently Benny Hinn was invited to City Harvest to preach in 2008.
For those who don't know who Benny Hinn is, he is in fact one of the greatest con artist masquerading as a pastor. He even owns a private jet and claims he can heal all sicknesses using 'faith healing' which is never proven.
Here is an excerpt of Benny Hinn and what his church does.
‘God bless your credit card’
Johannesburg - God’s blessing would last only two minutes and it would create 500 churchgoing millionaires or even billionaires - all they had to do was use their credit cards to pay $1 000 in offerings to televangelist Benny Hinn.
Pastor Tommie Ferreira of the AGS Church in Johannesburg was so upset about the “blessing” that, after a week, he wanted to know who of the donors actually had become millionaires.
Ferreira told Rapport he did not mean to bring about Hinn’s downfall.
He merely wanted to know if any of the hundreds of churchgoers who donated amounts of up to $1 000 (about R7 500) to Hinn’s Miracle Crusade last week Saturday had now become millionaires.
About 18 000 people streamed to the Coca-Cola Dome in Randburg to hear Hinn’s message of healing and miracles.
Ferreira, who is a keen choir singer, voluntarily sang in the Miracle Crusade’s choir. He said one of Hinn’s American guest speakers, Pastor Todd Koontz, spoke about financial burdens and said 500 audience members would receive “an exceptional blessing”.
“He said the service would yield millionaires and billionaires within 24 hours.
“Everyone had to donate $1 000 because an exceptional blessing rested on $1 000.”
Koontz apparently really had the congregation scrambling when he said, “This blessing will be poured out for only two minutes.”
Ferreira said: “People stormed to the front - poor people, rich people, people from all sections of our society.”
Hinn’s co-pastors apparently had credit-card machines ready with which they could take donations.
“He (Koontz) said God would bless the people’s credit cards and they would be able to rule over South Africa with their money. Eventually there were no fewer than 1 000 people who made such donations.”
According to Ferreira’s calculations, Hinn must have collected millions of rands with these donations - perhaps more than R7m if each of the 1 000 church-goers donated $1 000 in the hope of becoming millionaires.
Furthermore, after Koontz’s collection of the $1 000 donations, Hinn collected general donations.
Dr Sarel Smit of the AGS church Lofstad in Hursthill, Johannesburg, who supported Ferreira as he spoke to Rapport, was equally worried about the method by which Hinn collected donations.
“Especially at a time like this when there is dire need, people run the risk of losing their faith in the Lord in this way. God will provide for your needs, but not your greed.”
Rapport spoke to an employee in Hinn’s South African office in Durban who said on Friday morning that they were still busy collecting money. \"
This guy has been exposed as a fraud and the amazing thing is he can still be so successful sucking money from unsuspecting, helpless people.
For people who are interested to know about him, you can check out this link and all evidences against Benny Hinn.
http://www.blog.joelx.com/pastor-benny-hinn-fraud-scam-divorce/4863/
I really hope people can do their own research about their church leaders and their teachings before blindly following and handing over hard earned money that can be put to greater use.
And for CHC members, is it not strange that your church associates with someone like that? Does it not reflect on the views of your church leaders?
my two cents,
kc
What's happening in CHC is probably \"groupthink\" on a colossal scale.
\"When Consensus Replaces Critical Thinking
Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon in which the group members form individual opinions that match the group consensus rather than critically evaluating information. Groupthink seems to occur most often when a respected or persuasive leader is present, inspiring members to agree with his or her opinion. It also is a powerful force when it validates the preconceived opinions of the individual members. It can be spot on and right. It also can be dreadfully wrong.\"
Read the entire article: \"http://www.westerncity.com/Western-City/March-2012/The-Power-of-Groupthink-The-New-Denial/.\" -
youtube: Benny Hin exposed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSxqFE_hmcE&feature=related -
Sim TT:
[/quote]Personally I found this note quite balance and I agree that we should not be too harsh on the CHC people because I think they also shocked and maybe got some knee jerk reactions. Imagine you follow this leader for so many years or even decade plus then someone turn around and say this man is no longer trustworthy. Need some time to reconcile. Or maybe he will be innocent in the end?
Now, with KH's speech in the Presence Confetence, his speech about how God speaks to him amid his ordeal (totally twisted) and other info about him that has been widely circulated in social media, hope CHC members could be jolted out of their spell.
As for the public at large, it is not just about the govt charges against the 5 anymore. It also brings to light the deviant teachings that we need to be worried about and the influence on society, the impressionable youth and our children. -
Didn't expect to see such an interesting topic here
I just cannot believe how come so many members still can support KH and his glam wife blindly... where is the reasonable man?
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