Asia spending billions on tutors: study
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Suz855:
This is exactly what I mean by empathy or the lack of. Based on the backgrounds of our ruling team, many of them are pretty blessed, at least blessed with academic talent to arrive at where they are today. However, what differentiates them would be their ability to empathise.
:thankyou: limlim :salute:
Some parents are so blessed that they fail to see the pain of others .....
If I am not wrong, our poor SINGA who seems to be singing its own tune at every campaign is singing...\"Empathy\" this time.
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Likewise, we also have to empathise with the teachers. 20 years ago, they don’t have rigorous KPIs, they don’t have to do research papers, they don’t have to face the expectations and demands of so many highly educated parents, they don’t have to cope with the vastly increased curriculum, they don’t have to be kept reminded to prepare children for the unknown future with untested skills. Teachers are still the same human beings after all but have to do more now with lesser time (but more pay and temptations perhaps……). So kudos to those who persevere and thrive. (For those who don’t, normally I will have a word with the HOD…….)
I was unfortunate to be at both the recent City Hall (no electricity) and Novena train station during the major breakdown. Prior to that, there were frequent breakdowns but nobody would seriously think we would have any major problem with our world class system. But when it happened, it is suddenly plain for us to see why the basic procedures are not boosted when there is gradual system overload. But non-MRT riders may not empathise. But if all mrt riders decided to switch to bus/taxi/car, subsequently all will be affected. We may not know how to solve the present situation but feedbacks/concerns will help to highlight the areas where it can be improved before the system breakdown. And this is even more important than trains where we still have other alternatives. -
ksi:
If the example cited by you is a true happening, yes, I agree that there is a potential conflict of interest. On the other hand, even if this teacher doesn't teach her students in an external tuition centre, as long as she is the exam paper setter, what is stopping her from giving extra hints to her own class students so that a majority of them will perform well vis-a-vis another class taught by another teacher (there must be KPI for teachers' performance at the end of the day like how many good passes in a class, no?)? So the way to solve this conflict of interest issue should not be that a teacher cannot moonlight as a tuition teacher. Rather, she should not be teaching her own students outside of school and getting paid for it. Agree?
2. Strictly speaking, this allowance of a limited hours of moonlighting has a conflict of interest. I cite an example here. A teacher teaches at a well known tuition centre. Some children from the school attend this centre. This same teacher teaches the same children in school as well. The teacher may also be the exam paper setter. Say, majority of the tuition kids perform well. Then it becomes a point of discussion whether the teacher gave extra hints to the tuition kids but in reality it might just be because they spent more time on that subject due to the tuition. It becomes an unnecessary debate for the teacher and doubts are cast. In the commercial world, most companies will allow moonlighting if livelihood is an issue but not doing the same work. For example, if one works in banking, one can be a lecturer for banking in the night or even give tuition in Math, then there is no conflict of interest.
As you have said, livelihood is the reason why people moonlight. School teachers' special skill set is in teaching academic subjects and they get a premium for it. We can't impose upon the school teachers that they become waitresses or piano teachers or insurance agents just because of potential conflict of interest in the example that you have cited.
It's like I see a lot of Yamaha piano teachers teaching students outside of Yamaha, some are existing Yamaha students attending group lessons in Yamaha, some are not. It would be quite crazy to suggest that these teachers ought to be teaching something else other than piano if they wish to moonlight. These teachers will just leave Yamaha and be private teachers teaching 100% from home.
As I said earlier, I do not see tuition centres as the competitor of MOE. They are complementary and therefore, conflict of interest issue can be managed for cases such as the one you have cited.ksi:
That is why this phenomenon is not just the doing of MOE. I think we can all agree on that.One thing I want to congratulate Singapore with this tuition nation phenomenon in a positive way is, I can say, \"We have arrived!!\"
Only world-class CITIES in Asia has this similar education syndrome, look around. We have indeed grown up from our kampong days! 
I do not think that some forummers here lack empathy per se. It is perhaps the constant \"attacking\" by some on MOE and teachers over multiple threads in this forum over the last few months that caused some wanting to speak up and present an alternative view to balance things up a bit. Perhaps it has come across as being snobbish at times.
No offence to anyone. :xedfingers: -
ksi:
Agree. It takes a good minister/MP to really walk the ground and listen to the common folk. I am almost certain non of them live in a HDB flat and none of them take public transport, for good reasons for the most part, like having a busy schedule, but a good minister/MP will listen hard, gather feedback with his/her grassroots members and not ignore comments or dismiss them as hearsay just because they did not experience the situation themselves.
This is exactly what I mean by empathy or the lack of. Based on the backgrounds of our ruling team, many of them are pretty blessed, at least blessed with academic talent to arrive at where they are today. However, what differentiates them would be their ability to empathise.Suz855:
:thankyou: limlim :salute:
Some parents are so blessed that they fail to see the pain of others .....
If I am not wrong, our poor SINGA who seems to be singing its own tune at every campaign is singing...\"Empathy\" this time.
A good minister/MP will also make the effort to really understand experiences across varying profiles of people.
I shudder to think what conclusion a minister/MP would arrive at if he were to believe to be true only what he and the other ministers and MPs themselves are experiencing. HDB :scratchhead: MRT :scratchhead: got problem meh? No one around me is complaining (we dont live in them or ride in them :oops: ). There. I certainly don't see the problem.
For those whose kids are already out of the education system and working - Tuition? :scratchhead: well, my kids never complained then. My neighbors' kids didn't complain either. What's the problem?
Thankfully we have some good ones. I have a good MP, who walks around, listens, shares, connects, empathizes. Bless him. -
As I have said, if it pains parents so much to have their precious lose out to others, or labelled as foundation class students, then lets just please mash everyone into the same cohort and test simple, so everyone passes with 'A’s and we can all hug trees and sing kumbaya. Parents not stressed, teachers not stressed, students not stressed, tuition industry collapses. Perfect.
It is absolutely fine with me, really.
Referring to buds post, we are barking up the wrong tree. There seems to be an opinion that we MUST optimise every child’s education, bring him to he ‘best of his abilities’
I don’t subscribe to that at all. I don’t optimise my sons education, I push them but I don’t push them to ‘the best of his abilities.’ That’s what’s driving the tuition industry.
Plenty of time to catch up in higher education and workplace. Just look at Page 1 of the ST today, the present CEO of Cathay. He’s about my age, I bet I outscored him by a mile in school, but he is far more successful now.
Why the worry? Why the fretting? I don’t worry for my kids academic placement so much, I am far more concerned about their character development.
People are hung up about tuition because they think its a rat race they can’t get out of. Apply it in small measures, by all means, but there comes a point where enough is enough, dial back and let your kids be, find their own level. He’s God’s gift, don’t judge him by his scores, accept him for who he is. -
Sun_2010:
But would parents listen? If they do not, is it fair to the teachers? Or do we want teachers to start employing threat tactics, like \"if you go for tuition, I will penalise you by being more strict with my marking of your work.\"?
Agreed that KPI is not workable. But to kick start a decline this mad rush to join tution/enrichment, it could be a small weightage in KPI. Just to incentivise the teacher to stress to parents , tution is not needed. Except in cases where the teacher feels it is.
Even if students do not go to tuition/enrichment centres, what is to stop one parent from enriching or coaching his own child at home?Sun_2010:
But I thought there were suggestions that teachers should not be profiteering from this as they are civil servants and paid with tax-payers' money. The material that they have developed on their own is not a property of the school that they are teaching in. Hence there is a call that there should be sharing across schools through a common database, etc.Yes, moonlighting should not be allowed.
Even if the teacher is not teaching any student from her school, there is a question of the resources she may use/generate as a tutor could be a product of the school. Even if it is done with her own material and in her own time.
I believe, for other professions it is so, the employee owns the rights over inventions/creations done within the function scope of the employer, even if it doesnt state so explicity in the contract. Because the experience she gets while teaching, information from other school material, trainings etc is all obtained within her job function. -
Sun_2010:
ksi:
1. I agree this KPI is not workable. There is no span of control by the teacher over what additional help children are getting outside the school.
Agreed that KPI is not workable. But to kick start a decline this mad rush to join tution/enrichment, it could be a small weightage in KPI. Just to incentivise the teacher to stress to parents , tution is not needed. Except in cases where the teacher feels it is.
I understand the intent but the implementation is tricky because when do you start taking the survey of tuition? At beginning of year, some kids may not start on tuition yet. At mid year, some may have taken and dropped out and some planning. At year end, again the numbers may not be accurate. So in the end, some teachers become glorified and some penalised wrongly because of the timeframe children pop in and out of tuition. However, the message to the teachers to de-emphasize on tuition to both children and parents can still be done without being a KPI
2. Strictly speaking, this allowance of a limited hours of moonlighting has a conflict of interest.
Yes, moonlighting should not be allowed.
Even if the teacher is not teaching any student from her school, there is a question of the resources she may use/generate as a tutor could be a product of the school. Even if it is done with her own material and in her own time.
I believe, for other professions it is so, the employee owns the rights over inventions/creations done within the function scope of the employer, even if it doesnt state so explicity in the contract. Because the experience she gets while teaching, information from other school material, trainings etc is all obtained within her job function.
School teacher command more fee (relatively) just because of they are in the profession (I base this on ads which showcase \"current school teacher\", \"NIE trained\")
What about teachers who need to work more ? Also it would be a waste to not utilize the time and effort of teachers who are willing and want to do more teaching. What could be done is redirect the teachers who want to earn more do extra work for the resource strapped schools and pay reasonable rates for it.
I agree that as opposed to moonlighting to redirect the resources to schools who need manpower. In fact, you have brought up a good point which MOE can consider as virtual resourcing. It may not be practical to go totally virtual(go crazy to manage resourcing schedule) but for resources who opt for longer hours outside their normal hours, they can form the first level virtual resource pool(managed by MOE system) before they move to relief teachers pool. This is probably a good professional track for teachers who only love to teach and not want to become managers like HOD. However, if all schools are single sessions, this is only possible if they make teachers specialists, then perhaps a few schools in the nearby vicinity can share the specialists. THEN...we can say all \"cluster schools are the same...\"... I like your idea...can be expounded further.
3. I do not think the control on advertisements would work either. Just like after a few near-death accounts of people are reported after consuming diet pills, I see diet pills are still selling well.
Agree. Most parents are not moved by ads while it does intrigue us, we do not decide mainly based on that . What is a more importnant is \"what everyone says\", What place the other kids who are doing well in the class attend, and a little of logistics , and affordability.
:hi5:
To be candid, both gambling and heavy tuition nation have consequence to the society, only high impact or low impact and when. One is more immediate, the other needs another 10-15 years to see the outcome. We have to wait, but if we want to extrapolate, we can see it in Japan, China, HK and perhaps even Korea which are all ahead of the curve than us. Hence, you are right to say gambling has an obvious consequence.
This i agree. Probably a lot of us will have kids out of the system before it turns that bad, but it is easier to control a small fire not after it becomes a forest fire. It is not that bad yet for emergency and stop-gap measures, but if cooling off steps are introduced now, we dont have to get into that stage. And we can work out long term solutions , redefining objectives of education for Singapore.
:hi5:
One thing I want to congratulate Singapore with this tuition nation phenomenon in a positive way is, I can say, \"We have arrived!!\" Only world-class CITIES in Asia have this similar education syndrome, look around. We have indeed grown up from our kampong days!
Yes , we have arrived.
But the point is is this where we took the ticket to?
Misled by the ad :evil:
:rotflmao: Sometimes we have to humour ourselves. -
oxyleo:
You have no idea how timely your post was. All of us have a halo and 2 horns. And believe me, the light on my halo was dimming and those 2 horns were on the way out! :imanangel: :oops:ksi:
[quote=\"oxyleo\"]Ksi, lilac 66 - Thank You! For your exemplary nature.
:celebrate: All for a good discussion here as eager-to-learn parents.
Thanks to your post and Lilac's quote, the horns are right back where I'd like them to be. :grphug:[/quote]My eyes see :imanangel: side only and that includes you
....did you say horns? Oh...that is the property of BIGDevil... Hey BigD, where are you?
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Asia spending billions on tutors… No wonder Americans have created this stereotype that Asians are naturally smart and nerds.
:B Oh well… Asians are kiasu as always…
But never as Kiasu as SG KSP Parents xD -
ksi:
some of us are of bigger ant mah ...... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
So each of us equipped with an ant's view
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