Asia spending billions on tutors: study
-
Nebbermind:
i thot adjunct teachers are also under MOE's payroll, no? :scratchhead:Sometimes they may perform better coz they r not directly under MOE's payroll and not required to do those non-academic related stuff.
Have a friend who quitted and re-joined a school...not sure what is the title but he just go and teach, no CCA, no non-academic activities....he's very happy with the arrangement.
If not mistaken, as an adjunct, there is virtually no career prospects, no performance & annual bonus, no medical/dental benefits and probably not paid during the school hols.
Trade off is that there is minimal admin duties and no CCA duties. So, there are pros and cons. Still, the adjunct teacher's role is also important as it plays a supportive role to the school teachers.
Must also qualify that not all adjunct teachers are untrained NIE teachers. Some may be retired teachers or some NIE-trained teachers quitting their full time teaching jobs, preferably to work part-time. -
janet_lee88:
So... he can be adjunct forever... and be untrained? But still AutumnBronze has a good point. Some trained teachers are awful. Some untrained ones are wonderful... so...
There are a handful who do not sent for training at NIE. For eg, if the person didn't get a pass in Eng...but this friend of mine is ok with it since he doesn't have to attend endless meetings and get to coach his kids in their school work.Nebbermind:
Sometimes they may perform better coz they r not directly under MOE's payroll and not required to do those non-academic related stuff.
Have a friend who quitted and re-joined a school...not sure what is the title but he just go and teach, no CCA, no non-academic activities....he's very happy with the arrangement. -
autumnbronze:
I appreciate many of your sharing..
This is an open forum, lest someone comes in and blasts me for my post.
I'm sure others do too..
As for truncating.. it is not to \"read what we chose to read\".. but to make the post shorter and more readable as the main point of contention are singled out.
Just to clarify.
I guess, there is misunderstanding on the intention of truncating posts.
Properly we see things different.. I has a habit to reduce \"clutter\" (doesn't mean the points are not valid, just not relevant to the current \"focus\").
Again.. we don't argue for the sake of argument.. or to \"win\".. there has to be common understanding on this..
I really have to highlight again.. on the rational behind truncating posts.....
Thanks.....
And I do read and appreciate some things you mentioned and some of the comments you made. and I read your post/comments in full. It is only respect for the writer to read their post in full.. althou I do not/may not quote \"In Full\". I only reply after reading the full post. -
autumnbronze:
....
On a separate note, it is becoming very pain(ful) to read the postings here. And I apologize first now if this is going to be harsh. But I will be speaking from my heart. I am doubting the extent of the 'pain' that those
have gone through. The alternative camp here has only tried to seek to clarify and provide, well, an alternative view. For those who claim that we are not civilized in our postings, well my FIL always admonishes my son that \"remember boy, for one finger pointing at others, there are four fingers pointing back at you\".
Hi Autumnbronze, what you have mentioned gel with my feelings too. It was a joy to read most threads in KSP in the past (even tho I have only joined less that 2 years, but the 'pain' is getting a little overbearing for me too.
For myself, if I have adopted an unfriendly tone, I have explained why in
my previous post. However, seems to me that limlim's camp time and again take offense in what the alternative group have to say and choose to
read what they want to read, to the point of truncating certain statements in their replies. The latest posts that I have just read, the subtle or not so
subtle nuances towards the alternative group shocked me. Now who is stoking the fire huh?? Haiz, it's so clear that ONLY their views hold water, only THEY have experienced the pain, ONLY they are victims of bad teachers. Well, life is full of choices!!! You make your life out the way you
want it to be. Not happy with the sch, nothing being done by MOE or the sch after feedback, then transfer out if you want immediate changes to be
put in effect, as someone aptly put it.
.....
I have personally gone through so much PAIN in life during my younger days that which has shaped me the way I am now. I have my PRIORITIES in check. and I choose to see the good in life. Nothing wrong in that. Perhaps that's why I am at peace with myself.
Good for you :love:
I feel for you. I feel for you because there is so much bitterness in your
posts. And as someone put it in another thread, this is only Pri education.
......
Bitterness & a little ugly sometimes..... :sad:
This is an open forum, lest someone comes in and blasts me for my post.
Please bear that in mind. And I am certainly not off topic. There are underlying messages. But then again, perhaps one is in too much pain to read them. If you do not agree with me, I am fine with that. If you choose to respond to this post. I won't be replying. It's my last in here. So you can say \"good riddance to this poster\" under your breath or if
it makes you feel better, aloud then.
Where are the mods anyway??? Seriously CKS, you should reinstate those
who have 'resigned' from the posts because when they were around, the forum was so much more civil. But I guess views from ole timers like me don't matter much anymore .....
Sorry to hear that you have decided to stop replying cos' I do think your posts have often provide a very balanced view....like some others. But guess I kinda understand how you feel cos' I too, feeling tired. Dun think I will last much longer either.....
Peace within ourselves :love: -
BeContented:
Hmmmm... missed this. No I was not directing it at you. I was just trying to ensure that not all UNcontented people get tarred with the same brush.
Hi Chen,
You sure you are not directing at me :evil: :evil:BeContented:
BUT... are you directing this at me? If you are... here is my response... DS was 2nd in class last year and I was over the moon. He was 2nd last in Chinese at CA1 this year and I was quite happy that he didn't fail because many did.You might be a perfectionist and cannot accept a 2nd best.....I CAN. If one try their best, clear, pass, over. Move on.
This said, I am still a perfectionist. I want to do things well. I wouldn't release a report that I though was sub-par... nor put out a book without taking care that it was the highest quality I can produce. Nothing wrong with being perfectionist... and I should not be dissed for it.BeContented:
This is a good clarification.Am not asking people to be contented and dun care, but to relook and adjust some of their expectations.
BeContented:
So your posts ridiculing people for not being contented only refer to such people is it? Those who wanna buy luxury cars and won't wait 5-10 minutes? ? That's again a good clarification.It's painful tho to listen to people complaining about being unable to buy new/luxury car, ranting over 5-10 mins of waiting time for bus/MRT... people from high income/bigger units complain about the peanut$ and getting less than others.
Even then, it could be that for some people, 5-10 minutes has serious implications. A cleaner was late and his already small salary was docked. Those in bigger flats may have recently been retrenched? I knew a banker earning $15,000 one day and out of job the next. It was overnight.BeContented:
I'm not sure I want to descend into comparing whose life is more painful. My life is fine, I assure you. I have pulled us all out of the depths. DS is not top of the top, but I am sanguine enough to have left him Home Alone during his PSLE year whilst I went on 3 different overseas trips this year.
True, I am blessed that my kids are doing well....but does that mean that I have a perfectly blessed journey with zero pain...as implied by some? Not the same type of pain? Ohhhh, my pain not as painful as yours.....
Indeed, I am perhaps more bochap than even you because I did not apply for DSA. DS does a sport that exposes him to a coach from RI. This coach loves my son and sees great potential in him for the sport. I could have chosen to DSA, and I think we would have stood a good chance... but I did not. Partly, I want DS to know that he has no safety net. Partly, I was busy.
Your son is DSA-ing?
But enough about me and you... I am now coaching a mother whose child fails 4 subjects. There is a lot of pain there, I can tell you. If people like you and I (with reasonably successful kids) have no empathy for people like that, and sit out our keyboards to joke and poke sarcastic fun at people like HER for be UNcontented, then the world is a sad sad place.
But I think you have clarified that your scorn and ridicule are not directed at Mothers like her. So I guess we are somewhat in agreement.BeContented:
I have friends like this too. They compare their kids with mine. However, I don't judge them. I try and help them instead.
I know of 1 parent, she has always compared her gal with my DD....their gap widen over the years and she increased her gal's tuition to 7 per week (4 subjects). Her comparing and complaints are still on-going and these are the types of pain I will ignore. But then again, all of us will feel that our pain are geniune and should not be ignored/dismissed.BeContented:
Whilst I really don't think this comment is directed at me personally... Why should I take DS out of a school that sets tough exams (away from all his friends and against his will and during his PSLE year) when clearly, he CAN be 2nd in class (and 16th in the level) when given the correct materials to read (and NO tuition)? Why should I short-change him when he CAN cope... and if he CANNOT cope, it was because his Teachers teach insufficiently and his textbooks are lousy?
As mentioned before, if the particular sch sets exam that are too difficult, stay or get out -- it's a choice.
Now... before I am misunderstood as bashing Teachers... let me recall an earlier post.Chenonceau:
Teachers indeed don't teach sufficiently. The question is why they don't. It cannot be that all teachers are bad. If indeed, all teachers don't teach sufficiently THEN logic dictates that it CANNOT BE the fault of Teachers.
Why so? Statistically, it is very improbable to find a whole population of Teachers who are lazy and aim to profiteer. Quality and ethical frameworks of Teachers, like in any large population left UNregulated, will fall on a bell curve. However, IF facilitating and regulatory mechanisms are not in place to help this bell curve of Teachers teach, the WHOLE bell curve falls below par... and it ISN'T the fault of Teachers. -
firefly38:
I remember those days in ksp, firefly38. The teasings and the hippo and l-o-n-g l-o-n-g giraffe necks inside jokes. Any side swipes were all made in good fun. And whilst I was never active in those threads, I was reading and laughing and learning from the posts and sharing.When I first joined KSP last year, I simply loved this forum... :love:
I remember the first 2 threads I participated in were ''2011 DSA'' and ''2011 PSLE Discussion & Strategy'' threads.. Never once had I come across any 'MOE/teacher-bashing' or 'tutor-glorifying' remarks.. The 2011 PSLE parents discussed (most of the time, with lots of humour), encouraged and supported each other in our DSs/DDs' DSA/PSLE journey.. Ex-PSLE parents (ksp2010, strparent, jtoh, intermezzo, to name a few..) also joined in to give us advice & support.. How I treasure those fond memories.. :grphug:
VSK2010 started a ''2012 PSLE Discussion & Strategy\" thread, even before 2011 PSLE ended, with the good intention to allow the 2012 PSLE parents to discuss & share, and give each other support & encouragement during the tough period of PSLE preparation (for their kids).. However, the thread has turned out to be... :sad:
I was shocked to read (in another thread) that a parent actually told her kid not to listen to his school Math teacher (who was either not teaching, or teaching the wrong things), but to follow his private Math tutor's methods in solving Math problems.. :shock:
Wonder how the kid will respect his school teachers, if the parents keep slamming that their school teachers are no good, lousy, lazy, giving them loads of other school's exam papers to do, instead of revising with topical papers (which the private tutors are doing).. :skeptical:
I feel that most kids handle topical test papers well, but they stumble if they have to do the full paper within a stipulated time (all topics coming together, no time to finish paper, poor time-management etc).. Hence, the school teachers are doing the RIGHT thing to let the kids practise with other schools' exam papers.. What better way to prepare the kids for PSLE than to give them a taste of the ''real'' thing.. :roll:
I remember my DS' teachers gave them lots of other schools' exam papers to do in the final months of PSLE prpearation last year.. I loved it, as I didn't buy any for DS to do.. DS loved it too and would look forward to his teachers giving him more, especially over the weekends.. And we parents also posted our questions and discussed the answers in the ''2011 PSLE'' thread, whenever we needed clarification (sometimes, the model answers given were wrong) or had doubts on any topics/issues..
Well.. those were the days.. where have they gone..
VK, jtoh, intermezzo... were very generous and selfless in their sharing and encouragement. Tere were a lot more support and encouragement and motivation for each other and our kids. More positive energy then.
I find that negativity breeds toxicity. Is that necessary? Maybe I'm naive in my thinking. But our kids are what we are.
I apologise if my post has offended. It's not my intention and not directed at anyone. But sharing as it is from someone who has grown with ksp over the past 3 years. -
autumnbronze:
Since it has been established that there are SOME NIE trained teachers who cannot teach, I don't see why the fuss about untrained teachers. For many other professions, we all have to start from somewhere. Why pick on the teachers only? This is clearly looking like a witch hunt .... a means to find any negative crumb against teachers to feed the masses.
I am very sure many pupils have benefitted from their teaching.
During my time, there were this batch of teachers referred to as contract teachers who were untrained. Perhaps they had to wait for the next intake into NIE, hence their teaching stint first.
I was a relief teacher for a year before entering NIE. That was because I missed the year's intake. It was a wonderful experience and re-affirmed my decision to join the teaching fraternity. I had a mentor/co-operating
teacher who was a senior to assist me. I KNOW I wasn't a bad teacher
because of the accolades that I received from the kids. I still have their gifts and notes of appreciation kept securely in a box.
On a separate note, it is becoming very pain(ful) to read the postings here. And I apologize first now if this is going to be harsh. But I will be speaking from my heart. I am doubting the extent of the 'pain' that those
have gone through. The alternative camp here has only tried to seek to clarify and provide, well, an alternative view. For those who claim that we are not civilized in our postings, well my FIL always admonishes my son that \"remember boy, for one finger pointing at others, there are four fingers pointing back at you\".
For myself, if I have adopted an unfriendly tone, I have explained why in
my previous post. However, seems to me that limlim's camp time and again take offense in what the alternative group have to say and choose to
read what they want to read, to the point of truncating certain statements in their replies. The latest posts that I have just read, the subtle or not so
subtle nuances towards the alternative group shocked me. Now who is stoking the fire huh?? Haiz, it's so clear that ONLY their views hold water, only THEY have experienced the pain, ONLY they are victims of bad teachers. Well, life is full of choices!!! You make your life out the way you
want it to be. Not happy with the sch, nothing being done by MOE or the sch after feedback, then transfer out if you want immediate changes to be
put in effect, as someone aptly put it.
(FYI) my K1 son was a victim of a 'bad' teacher. It affected his self-esteem
in one aspect. Until today, he refuses to participate in sand and water play once very week because of what happened, something he looked forward to before the incident. This happened one year ago. I am still working on building up his confidence. That same teacher has tried to put him as well
as my parenting style down right to my face. I just ignored her. Why? Because I believe she didn't know my son as well as the other teachers, including the Principal. The teacher left after a while. I found out earlier on she was inundated with personal problems. Unprofessional to take it out on my son, yes I agree but I saw a rationale there which I do not wish to share here cuz it's personal. To me, this my son's very FIRST life lesson that he is dealing with and if he pulls through successfully, I will give myself a pat on my back fobeing a damn good parent. If you think my actions are magnanimous, well, thats MY philosophy towards life. I have personally
gone through so much PAIN in life during my younger days that which has shaped me the way I am now. I have my PRIORITIES in check. and I choose to see the good in life. Nothing wrong in that. Perhaps that's why I am at peace with myself.
I feel for you. I feel for you because there is so much bitterness in your
posts. And as someone put it in another thread, this is only Pri education.
There is so much to life, please. In case anyone who feels that I am not qualified to comment cuz I do not have any Pri sch going kids, well I will
just share with you that I was a late bloomer due to circumstances at home. BUT, I have done well in my education and life, even though I had to take the road less travelled through faith, determination, sacrifice and hard work. Much much better than my peers who did well in their PSLE or even at tertiary level. In the recent years, I have seen 4 cousins-in-law picking themselves up after their secondary education because they imbibed the same qualities mentioned above and are doing very well now. 2 of them were from Rosyth, one from a neighbourhood and one from the normal technical stream. So not all from good schools do well in their PSLE. And there are a myriad of reasons why pupils may not do well in their studies in their younger days.
This is an open forum, lest someone comes in and blasts me for my post.
Please bear that in mind. And I am certainly not off topic. There are underlying messages. But then again, perhaps one is in too much pain to read them. If you do not agree with me, I am fine with that. If you choose to respond to this post. I won't be replying. It's my last in here. So you can say \"good riddance to this poster\" under your breath or if
it makes you feel better, aloud then.
Where are the mods anyway??? Seriously CKS, you should reinstate those
who have 'resigned' from the posts because when they were around, the forum was so much more civil. But I guess views from ole timers like me don't matter much anymore .....
It doesn't matter if you choose not to respond but do take a min to read this as the truncated msg was one of my post.
first Autumnbronze, really appreciate what you shared that was so close to your heart. I don't know if some of my posts have unwittingly offended you. But pls hear me out on 2 particular posts.
1. When I expressed surprise that the teachers are not trained, and how they'll teach without any formal training, I'm not implying that untrained teachers are no good. It's just an instinctive reply which I thought MOE should be doing the min of giving some training (could be a short one) before the teachers are deployed to schools.At least the teachers will know what to expect in a real classroom setting. At least they'll know how to conduct the lessons with confidence, whether fully trained or not.
2. Regarding the truncation of my post by SAHM_TAN, it was unintentional and said in jest. She quoted my post just before I edited it, so it's no fault of anyone.
Autumnbronze, rest assured that many parents here do not dispute the fact that there are alot of dedicated teachers , and you are one of them like I mentioned. How many teachers will do a one-on-one with the students before exam just because they requested it. (See I remember that post). I believe you are a very gentle parent and forumner but I also know you reacted that way because this is something very close to your heart and having gone through alot of pain. I'm just afraid this may have clouded your judgment and you may have read more into some posts than intended.
:snuggles: :hugs: -
autumnbronze:
:hugs:Since it has been established that there are SOME NIE trained teachers who cannot teach, I don't see why the fuss about untrained teachers. For many other professions, we all have to start from somewhere. Why pick on the teachers only? This is clearly looking like a witch hunt .... a means to find any negative crumb against teachers to feed the masses.
I am very sure many pupils have benefitted from their teaching.
During my time, there were this batch of teachers referred to as contract teachers who were untrained. Perhaps they had to wait for the next intake into NIE, hence their teaching stint first.
I was a relief teacher for a year before entering NIE. That was because I missed the year's intake. It was a wonderful experience and re-affirmed my decision to join the teaching fraternity. I had a mentor/co-operating
teacher who was a senior to assist me. I KNOW I wasn't a bad teacher
because of the accolades that I received from the kids. I still have their gifts and notes of appreciation kept securely in a box.
On a separate note, it is becoming very pain(ful) to read the postings here. And I apologize first now if this is going to be harsh. But I will be speaking from my heart. I am doubting the extent of the 'pain' that those
have gone through. The alternative camp here has only tried to seek to clarify and provide, well, an alternative view. For those who claim that we are not civilized in our postings, well my FIL always admonishes my son that \"remember boy, for one finger pointing at others, there are four fingers pointing back at you\".
For myself, if I have adopted an unfriendly tone, I have explained why in
my previous post. However, seems to me that limlim's camp time and again take offense in what the alternative group have to say and choose to
read what they want to read, to the point of truncating certain statements in their replies. The latest posts that I have just read, the subtle or not so
subtle nuances towards the alternative group shocked me. Now who is stoking the fire huh?? Haiz, it's so clear that ONLY their views hold water, only THEY have experienced the pain, ONLY they are victims of bad teachers. Well, life is full of choices!!! You make your life out the way you
want it to be. Not happy with the sch, nothing being done by MOE or the sch after feedback, then transfer out if you want immediate changes to be
put in effect, as someone aptly put it.
(FYI) my K1 son was a victim of a 'bad' teacher. It affected his self-esteem
in one aspect. Until today, he refuses to participate in sand and water play once very week because of what happened, something he looked forward to before the incident. This happened one year ago. I am still working on building up his confidence. That same teacher has tried to put him as well
as my parenting style down right to my face. I just ignored her. Why? Because I believe she didn't know my son as well as the other teachers, including the Principal. The teacher left after a while. I found out earlier on she was inundated with personal problems. Unprofessional to take it out on my son, yes I agree but I saw a rationale there which I do not wish to share here cuz it's personal. To me, this my son's very FIRST life lesson that he is dealing with and if he pulls through successfully, I will give myself a pat on my back fobeing a damn good parent. If you think my actions are magnanimous, well, thats MY philosophy towards life. I have personally
gone through so much PAIN in life during my younger days that which has shaped me the way I am now. I have my PRIORITIES in check. and I choose to see the good in life. Nothing wrong in that. Perhaps that's why I am at peace with myself.
I feel for you. I feel for you because there is so much bitterness in your
posts. And as someone put it in another thread, this is only Pri education.
There is so much to life, please. In case anyone who feels that I am not qualified to comment cuz I do not have any Pri sch going kids, well I will
just share with you that I was a late bloomer due to circumstances at home. BUT, I have done well in my education and life, even though I had to take the road less travelled through faith, determination, sacrifice and hard work. Much much better than my peers who did well in their PSLE or even at tertiary level. In the recent years, I have seen 4 cousins-in-law picking themselves up after their secondary education because they imbibed the same qualities mentioned above and are doing very well now. 2 of them were from Rosyth, one from a neighbourhood and one from the normal technical stream. So not all from good schools do well in their PSLE. And there are a myriad of reasons why pupils may not do well in their studies in their younger days.
This is an open forum, lest someone comes in and blasts me for my post.
Please bear that in mind. And I am certainly not off topic. There are underlying messages. But then again, perhaps one is in too much pain to read them. If you do not agree with me, I am fine with that. If you choose to respond to this post. I won't be replying. It's my last in here. So you can say \"good riddance to this poster\" under your breath or if
it makes you feel better, aloud then.
Where are the mods anyway??? Seriously CKS, you should reinstate those
who have 'resigned' from the posts because when they were around, the forum was so much more civil. But I guess views from ole timers like me don't matter much anymore ..... -
firefly38:
When I first joined KSP last year, I simply loved this forum... :love:
Same here......I joined 2 months earlier than you.
I remember the first 2 threads I participated in were ''2011 DSA'' and ''2011 PSLE Discussion & Strategy'' threads.. Never once had I come across any 'MOE/teacher-bashing' or 'tutor-glorifying' remarks.. The 2011 PSLE parents discussed (most of the time, with lots of humour), encouraged and supported each other in our DSs/DDs' DSA/PSLE journey.. Ex-PSLE parents (ksp2010, strparent, jtoh, intermezzo, to name a few..) also joined in to give us advice & support.. How I treasure those fond memories.. :grphug:
VSK2010 started a ''2012 PSLE Discussion & Strategy\" thread, even before 2011 PSLE ended, with the good intention to allow the 2012 PSLE parents to discuss & share, and give each other support & encouragement during the tough period of PSLE preparation (for their kids).. However, the thread has turned out to be... :sad:
:snuggles: Understand this part too. Cos' I too started with education threads. I was ranting over PIL issues too.....but whenever I come back to the education thread, the feel was very positive. It was so enjoyable that eventually I went on to read other threads, got myself hooked onto KSP and was often smiling & chuckling to myself over all the teasings and notti comments
)
I was shocked to read (in another thread) that a parent actually told her kid not to listen to his school Math teacher (who was either not teaching, or teaching the wrong things), but to follow his private Math tutor's methods in solving Math problems.. :shock:
Wonder how the kid will respect his school teachers, if the parents keep slamming that their school teachers are no good, lousy, lazy, giving them loads of other school's exam papers to do, instead of revising with topical papers (which the private tutors are doing).. :skeptical:
Agree. We need to teach kids to respect their school teachers more.....like an elder. If they respect authority, some will bother more about finishing their work, listening and paying attention to teachers etc.
I feel that most kids handle topical test papers well, but they stumble if they have to do the full paper within a stipulated time (all topics coming together, no time to finish paper, poor time-management etc).. Hence, the school teachers are doing the RIGHT thing to let the kids practise with other schools' exam papers.. What better way to prepare the kids for PSLE than to give them a taste of the ''real'' thing.. :roll:
I remember my DS' teachers gave them lots of other schools' exam papers to do in the final months of PSLE prpearation last year.. I loved it, as I didn't buy any for DS to do.. DS loved it too and would look forward to his teachers giving him more, especially over the weekends.. And we parents also posted our questions and discussed the answers in the ''2011 PSLE'' thread, whenever we needed clarification (sometimes, the model answers given were wrong) or had doubts on any topics/issues..
That's what DS school is doing too. I can't help wondering, those who are complaining about doing other school exam papers.....can help suggest what is REVISION in your definition? What exactly should Sch teachers be doing during revision? Also, since some mentioned that doing top sch papers is the private tutor's job, kids without tuition, what's to happen to them? The whole thing just look ironical to me......cos' this contradiction seems to come from the same people.
Well.. those were the days.. where have they gone..
-
schweppes:
:hi5: I miss those days too.
I remember those days in ksp, firefly38. The teasings and the hippo and l-o-n-g l-o-n-g giraffe necks inside jokes. Any side swipes were all made in good fun. And whilst I was never active in those threads, I was reading and laughing and learning from the posts and sharing.
VK, jtoh, intermezzo... were very generous and selfless in their sharing and encouragement. Tere were a lot more support and encouragement and motivation for each other and our kids. More positive energy then.
I find that negativity breeds toxicity. Is that necessary? Maybe I'm naive in my thinking. But our kids are what we are.
I apologise if my post has offended. It's not my intention and not directed at anyone. But sharing as it is from someone who has grown with ksp over the past 3 years.
The negativity in some threads... also make me want to :siam:
Life as it is, already tough. We don't need more from the cyberspace.
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