Bi-lingualism at school a mistake ?

[tamarind]

[quote]
Lets not be dogmatic about the techniques of learning Chinese.....[/quote]Millions and millions of Chinese in the world learn Chinese the way I described, and that is the reason why we do not find Chinese difficult at all. Those people who do not uderstand the techniques, really should not be making any comments.

In fact, many people, including myself when I was young, found English more difficult to learn than Chinese. I struggled with English grammar which was very confusing to me. Chinese grammar is very simple in comparison, don't need to worry about past tense, present tense, future tense etc.

I don't think anyone should judge whether Chinese is more difficult than English or not. Everyone has different backgrounds.

I think there is no point debating about whether Chinese is difficult or easy. Instead, we should be spending our time trying to understand effective methods of learning Chinese, as well as how to motivate our kids to learn Chinese.

[tamarind]

http://www.usingenglish.com/articles/which-most-difficult-language.html


Which is the most difficult language?


We are often asked what is the most difficult language to learn, and it is a difficult question to answer because there are a lot of things to take into consideration. Firstly, as a first language, or mother tongue, the differences are unimportant, so the question of how hard a language is to learn only arises in the area of second language acquisition.
A native speaker of Spanish will find Portuguese much easier to learn than a native speaker of Chinese, for example, because Portuguese is very similar to Spanish, while Chinese is very different, so first language is an important factor. the more different a language is from our mother tongue, the harder it will be to learn. Many people answer that Chinese is the hardest language to learn, possibly influenced by the thought of learning Chinese characters, and the pronunciation of Chinese does appear to be very difficult for foreign learners. However, for Japanese speakers, who already use Chinese characters in their own language, the writing will be less of a challenge than it will for people from languages using the Roman alphabet.

Some people can learn languages naturally and easily without much effort, while others find it very difficult, so natural aptitude for language learning is another factor. Teachers and the circumstances in which we learn also play an important role, as well as the motivation for learning. If people learn a language they need to use, they often learn it faster than people studying a language that has no direct use in the lives.

There is no single answer to this question; it depends on so many factors. However, the British Foreign Office has looked at the languages that diplomats and other embassy staff have to learn and has worked out which they find the most difficult to learn. The second hardest is Japanese, which probably comes as no surprise to many, but the language that they have found to be the most difficult to learn is Hungarian, which has 35 cases (forms of a nouns according to whether it is subject, object, genitive, etc). This does not mean that Hungarian is the hardest language to learn for everybody, but it causes British diplomatic staff, who are used to learning languages, the most difficulty. However, Tabassaran, a Caucasian language has 48 cases, so it would probably cause more difficulty if British diplomats had to learn it.

Different cultures and individuals from those cultures will find different languages more difficult. In the case of Hungarian for British learners, it is not a question of the writing system, which is alphabetic, but the grammatical complexity, though native speakers of related languages may find it easier, while struggling with languages that we find relatively easy. No language is easy to learn well, though languages which are related to our first language will be easier. Learning a completely different writing system is a huge challenge, but that does not necessarily make a language more difficult that another. In the end, it is impossible to say that there is one language that is the most difficult language in the world.

[3Boys]

Ever since MM Lee made his comments, my Dad, who suffered alongside me (doubly, since my brother had the same issues), feels at peace with himself, as he had been making the same point (as MM Lee) from the time he started watching me struggle with the language starting from P3, and was powerless to do anything about it except pour lots of time and money in tuition.


When I spoke with him today about this outstanding performance of this girl from Qifa, him comment was 'Of course lah, English is so much easier to learn, if you didn't have to spend half your time struggling with Chinese, you'd also be top PSLE student.....!' :!:

Errr... probably not, Dad. But still, one gets the point. He goes on to make a fairly provocative statement, apparently an opinion shared by english educated parents of his generation; 'As far as the chinese ed are concerned, they'd like to keep the standards as difficult as possible to keep themselves ahead of the game.' :!: :!:

Its not an opinion I share, since I think most of those who write in are genuinely passionate about the language and do not have a hidden agenda. Still, there have been a lot of people who have been embittered by the whole CL2 policy, and this latest u-turn is real vindication of their struggles.

As long as the pervasive opinion is that somehow, every one of those who do poorly in Chinese somehow have a bad attitude or are anti-cultural, and that there cannot be a pragmatic approach (shudder, dilution...!), then there can never be a meeting of minds.

Since it has been implied that those with no formal knowledge about techniques of teaching Chinese should not offer an opinion, I suppose I should recluse myself from participating in that discussion.

All I can say is that it is my opinion that the current steps taken by MOE are in the right direction, and may allow those who may otherwise be dis-enfranchised, to actually get on the chinese language train, which to me, is vitally important.

[tamarind]

[quote]
Since it has been implied that those with no formal knowledge about techniques of teaching Chinese should not offer an opinion, I suppose I should recluse myself from participating in that discussion. [/quote]I never wrote anything about formal knowledge. Anyone who is good in Chinese knows what it takes to excel in the language.

I absolutely agree that there are people who struggle with the Chinese language. The truth is that these people have not studied Chinese using effective methods. I myself also struggled with English all the way until I was 18 years old, but I did not complain non-stop that English is difficult to learn. I realized that I had not studied English using effective methods when I was young, thanks to the way MOE teachers teach English.

Let's not lament about the past anymore. Nowadays in Singapore, kids have the opportunity of learning both English and Chinese as a first language, that is, the language that they learn since birth. Even if parents do not speak Chinese, there are many excellent pre-schools that they can send the kids from as young as 2 - 3 years old to learn Chinese. Both my SILs cannot speak mandarin to save their own lives, but they understand that they must send their kids to learn Chinese from a very young age.

[clarabella]

Just to share this http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/11/24/%E5%8D%8E%E6%96%87%E9%80%80%E5%87%BA%E6%96%B0%E5%8A%A0%E5%9D%A1%E8%88%9E%E5%8F%B0/.

Be warned though that it's a very lengthy article written in Chinese

[kiasimom]

tamarind:

[quote]
Since it has been implied that those with no formal knowledge about techniques of teaching Chinese should not offer an opinion, I suppose I should recluse myself from participating in that discussion.

I never wrote anything about formal knowledge. Anyone who is good in Chinese knows what it takes to excel in the language.

I absolutely agree that there are people who struggle with the Chinese language. The truth is that these people have not studied Chinese using effective methods. I myself also struggled with English all the way until I was 18 years old, but I did not complain non-stop that English is difficult to learn. I realized that I had not studied English using effective methods when I was young, thanks to the way MOE teachers teach English.

Let's not lament about the past anymore. Nowadays in Singapore, kids have the opportunity of learning both English and Chinese as a first language, that is, the language that they learn since birth. Even if parents do not speak Chinese, there are many excellent pre-schools that they can send the kids from as young as 2 - 3 years old to learn Chinese. Both my SILs cannot speak mandarin to save their own lives, but they understand that they must send their kids to learn Chinese from a very young age.[/quote]Hi tamarind,

I fully agree with what you wrote in all your posts here.

I myself do not find Chinese easy to learn. But after learning Chinese in a more effective and fun way, it arouse my interests in learning Chinese.

So once you grasp the correct and effective way in learning, the route will be easier.

No doubt that all subjects are taught in English, I stll want my children to learn Chinese, not necessarily superb but at least proficient :celebrate:

[3Boys]

tamarind:

I myself also struggled with English all the way until I was 18 years old, but I did not complain non-stop that English is difficult to learn..

There is a difference between the 2 in the Singapore context, and your experience is proof positive. Someone in the reverse situation, of similar abiliites, would not have fared so easily. That is something the Chinese speaking camp cannot come to grips with, but thankfully MOE has.

tamarind:

Let's not lament about the past anymore.

Agreed

[cafelatte]

Very interesting debate here ! I am encouraged to see parents of KSP can disagree with each other with respect and courtesy!


Tamarind, I agree with many of the points you raised. My personal view, Chinese is a more difficult language to learn - it requires more focus, memory work and reasonably good penmanship. The learning curve is steep and new learners (if not motivated or encouraged) can "lose steam" very quickly.

Anyway, I am butting in here just to say that if anyone has concrete ways or experience to share about learning Chinese in effective & fun way, to arouse interest in the language, please share in the academic or support sections. The way I see it, we, the parents have a big role to play in that. So far, my child’s chinese school teachers do not seem to be able to do that - perhaps due to lack of resources.

[ruolei]

[quote]We must also read interesting Chinese story books to them, like short stories taken from the 4 great classical novels, especially 西游记, as well as 封神榜, 山海经， etc, and true stories from the history of China. These are very fascinating to kids, much better than Disney cartoons [/quote]
I totally agree with this. Children like 西游记very much, just as they like Harry Potter! They just need you (teachers or parents) to introduce these magical stories to them.

[kiasimom]

I try to get my children interested by finding out what can arouse their interests.


My children enjoy watching 封神榜 and have picked out chinese idioms from the show.

I also let my children watch the Chinese drama they like.

The key elements to learning a language is:

1. Listen
2. Speak
3. Read

In fact, my children watch more Chinese programmes at home. They are exposed to English most of the time, that’s why back home, they will watch more Chinese programmes.

I try to get them to speak Mandarin by taking the initiative to speak to them in Mandarin.

Kids are smart.
My children speak Mandarin to my parents as they know my parents cannot speak English well. In a way, they are "forced" to speak in Mandarin if they want to communicate with my parents.