Is GEP really necessary?
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firefly38:
Both of you are so spot on.Nebbermind:
Wah! So many pgs of exchange....so what's still the issue now? Gep die die must get > 260 for psle?
After 6 months and 80 pages, you are still running on the same spot mah...
:siam:
The recent posts show speculations of what is GEP and contradiction in their speculations yet same expectations, RESULTS. One laments GEP takes in HA only who are not \"gifted\" in anything but supposed to be all-rounders, so should produce results. In this world, it seems only 2E geniuses are gifted. Then in a population of 4M+, do we seriously expect to have so many 2E category?
Another expected GEP to be Leonardo da Vinci all-rounders gifted genius because gifted means should be able to learn everything ma and failing in any subject is unacceptable and must produce results.
Btw, these children are humans like all of us, heterogeneous and UNIQUE in case we forget. They do come in many shapes and sizes, the only common thing is MOE-defined giftedness and yet that is also different because their giftedness do vary. Some are definitely skewed and some all rounders. In fact, all-rounders is what some are blessed with like Leonardo but not all are Leonardos la or to Leonardo's level because he is already an adult by the time he exhibited his all-roundness..... but hor be careful all-rounders are only known as HA, not gifted... Don't say I say one har.... I never say Leonardo was not gifted, I never say Leonardo topped in any of his classes either.
As for bastardization of the selection process, I can only comment that it is probably more robust now as MOE has more than one point of assessing the suitability of the children and no preparation is possible.
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verykiasu2010:
This GEP hippo has a BIG tummy of ink.. no pray pray ah... :scared: :siam:
there is no GEP hippo :evil: :evil: :evil:2ppaamm:
:rotflmao: vlim, I like your language! -
firefly38:
Aiyo...how come suddenly I feel so \"naked\"? :oops:
Yes, Yes, Dr ksi.. We know your ''TOP-less'' talent.. And we LOVE it...ksi:
This is what people cannot understand and it has been explained... it seems that people are so caught up in being top that everything is only measured by TOP. If TOP-less, then no GEP calibre.
btw, congrats osim, 90%+ is great all-rounder for GEP, even for mainstream is great. :salute:
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ksi:
Both of you are so spot on.firefly38:
[quote=\"Nebbermind\"]Wah! So many pgs of exchange....so what's still the issue now? Gep die die must get > 260 for psle?
After 6 months and 80 pages, you are still running on the same spot mah... :siam:
The recent posts show speculations of what is GEP and contradiction in their speculations yet same expectations, RESULTS. One laments GEP takes in HA only who are not \"gifted\" in anything but supposed to be all-rounders, so should produce results. In this world, it seems only 2E geniuses are gifted. Then in a population of 4M+, do we seriously expect to have so many 2E category?
Another expected GEP to be Leonardo da Vinci all-rounders gifted genius because gifted means should be able to learn everything ma and failing in any subject is unacceptable and must produce results.
Btw, these children are humans like all of us, heterogeneous and UNIQUE in case we forget. They do come in many shapes and sizes, the only common thing is MOE-defined giftedness and yet that is also different because their giftedness do vary. Some are definitely skewed and some all rounders. In fact, all-rounders is what some are blessed with like Leonardo but not all are Leonardos la or to Leonardo's level because he is already an adult by the time he exhibited his all-roundness..... but hor be careful all-rounders are only known as HA, not gifted... Don't say I say one har.... I never say Leonardo was not gifted, I never say Leonardo topped in any of his classes either.
As for bastardization of the selection process, I can only comment that it is probably more robust now as MOE has more than one point of assessing the suitability of the children and no preparation is possible.[/quote]Well said, ksi. 
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atutor2001:
Maybe you should consult 2ppaamm, to her, they are not gifted only HA...so maybe HA run out of steam? or maybe they are gifted children as they are skewed in some subjects, so maybe this results show that they are in fact gifted but skewed? Your expectation is gifted and all rounders, hers is gifted and skewed. So now we understand how the labeling of GEP is made complicated by adults.
They are J2 classes. Those are the latest CT results. Actual class size is 23. You will know where they are from with the tell-tail sign of GEPers failing 2 subjects out of 5 and with just only 4 months to A level. Seasoned parents will not panic and know that everything will be fine in the end. First time parent with A-level kid will be hurting for the bestest tutor for their kid.ksi:
Sorry what class of 20 is this? Intermingling class? Tuition class or secondary class?
At A level, there is no T-score to pull down their grade and they can pick the subject of our choice. So the trend is more accurate. Those are only figures of 2 classes. However, if you hear the same kind of pattern for 3 different cohorts, you can roughly gauge - no statistic needed.
So for the GE kids, damn if they do, damn if they don't. They do well all-rounding, they are at best HA only cos no truly gifted can be all rounding(by 2ppaamm's definition), they don't do well, they are also HA (atutor2011's definition) because gifted kids must be gifted in learning everything. Do you see my point now? When are we going to stop cornering these poor kids?
And with this type of weak argument, we want to call for changes to GEP? Sorry please allow me to laugh....ok I will do it discreetly..
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jtoh:
Er... but the original selection process was devised by experts invited by MOE along with training the original set of teachers. Along the way, they couldn't cope with the teaching so they changed the whole selection system. I don't think this is called 'robustized', I'd rather call this 'accustomized', with compromise.
Well said, ksi.ksi:
The recent posts show speculations of what is GEP and contradiction in their speculations yet same expectations, RESULTS. One laments GEP takes in HA only who are not \"gifted\" in anything but supposed to be all-rounders, so should produce results. In this world, it seems only 2E geniuses are gifted. Then in a population of 4M+, do we seriously expect to have so many 2E category?
Another expected GEP to be Leonardo da Vinci all-rounders gifted genius because gifted means should be able to learn everything ma and failing in any subject is unacceptable and must produce results.
Btw, these children are humans like all of us, heterogeneous and UNIQUE in case we forget. They do come in many shapes and sizes, the only common thing is MOE-defined giftedness and yet that is also different because their giftedness do vary. Some are definitely skewed and some all rounders. In fact, all-rounders is what some are blessed with like Leonardo but not all are Leonardos la or to Leonardo's level because he is already an adult by the time he exhibited his all-roundness..... but hor be careful all-rounders are only known as HA, not gifted... Don't say I say one har.... I never say Leonardo was not gifted, I never say Leonardo topped in any of his classes either.
As for bastardization of the selection process, I can only comment that <b>it is probably more robust </b>now as MOE has more than one point of assessing the suitability of the children and no preparation is possible. To use vlim's terminology, they used to choose kids with surface area bigger, but any shape. However, since they find it hard to even find the surface area of these children, they decided the biggest they can find, with the criteria of being round, and does not matter if their surface area is smaller than those who are odd shaped and not round.
In short, GEP has its own definition of giftedness. And it is ok. As long as they don't lead parents of gifted children in all directions and only to find out through their own admission months later. -
ksi:
Aiyo...how come suddenly I feel so \"naked\"? :oops:
Yes, Yes, Dr ksi.. We know your ''TOP-less'' talent.. And we LOVE it...firefly38:
[quote=\"ksi\"]
This is what people cannot understand and it has been explained... it seems that people are so caught up in being top that everything is only measured by TOP. If TOP-less, then no GEP calibre.
btw, congrats osim, 90%+ is great all-rounder for GEP, even for mainstream is great. :salute: [/quote]Don't worry, haven't reached the bottom-less pit... still got some way to go. Not totally naked yet.
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2ppaamm:
Then again we are talking about 2 different things. My robustness points to keeping the HA kids who can be trained out of the selection. So my call is to parents, don't even bother about training. Your bastardization points to reducing 2E intake and getting in more giftedness in all-rounding, which in your definition is not possible to be omni-gifted, at best HA only. To you, there is only one definition for giftedness, 2E. Please talk to atutor2011 or Leonardo and see if they agree. In the discussion in this thread, it has gone off balance to dump down other gifted kids who are not in 2E. The range of giftedness is not limited to 2E.
Er... but the original selection process was devised by experts invited by MOE along with training the original set of teachers. Along the way, they couldn't cope with the teaching so they changed the whole selection system. I don't think this is called 'robustized', I'd rather call this 'accustomized', with compromise. To use vlim's terminology, they used to choose kids with surface area bigger, but any shape. However, since they find it hard to even find the surface area of these children, they decided the biggest they can find, with the criteria of being round, and does not matter if their surface area is smaller than those who are odd shaped and not round.
In short, GEP has its own definition of giftedness. And it is ok. As long as they don't lead parents of gifted children in all directions and only to find out through their own admission months later.
But this discussion is a good read for parents with 2E kids if they feel that GEP cannot meet their needs after learning about 2ppaamm's experience. The real problem is Singapore is too small, we do not have enough 2E kids to start a genius academy and likely not enough experts for 2E kids, the large countries can. Some 2E kids like Sheldon can fit GEP(maybe he is 3E, skewed and all-rounder), some like LJ cannot so all is not lost for 2E kids, it just have to be managed by exception. And we do not advocate management of exception by demolishing a system which works for another group of kids with the special learning needs. -
2ppaamm:
Don't worry, haven't reached the bottom-less pit... still got some way to go. Not totally naked yet. :)[/quote] :dowan: No thanks, nudeness is a privilege reserved for some people only.
Aiyo...how come suddenly I feel so \"naked\"? :oops:ksi:
[quote=\"firefly38\"]
Yes, Yes, Dr ksi.. We know your ''TOP-less'' talent.. And we LOVE it... :salute:
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ksi:
I actually thought that the GEP was targeted at the HA kids and not the truly gifted as there are far too few. Sadly many selected are not even HA but are the products of hot-housing at primary level. Such kids run out of steam. HA kids don't run out of steam but will not do well if the subject is not of interest to them. The results I have shown was refering to A-level, where the kids themselves select the subject of their preference. So we are saying that they could not find 4 subjects that they truly like. I actually think so because they generally, don't like to study.
Maybe you should consult 2ppaamm, to her, they are not gifted only HA...so maybe HA run out of steam? or maybe they are gifted children as they are skewed in some subjects, so maybe this results show that they are in fact gifted but skewed? Your expectation is gifted and all rounders, hers is gifted and skewed. So now we understand how the labeling of GEP is made complicated by adults.atutor2001:
....At A level, there is no T-score to pull down their grade and they can pick the subject of their choice. ...
......
Truly gifted are all-rounder. I have met many gifted people. While others were busy copying notes, the gifted only sat there, having already understood and stored the information in their own harddisk (brain).
Basic traits of a truly gifted :
a) Speed reading
b) Great ability in understanding and analysis at high speed.
c) Elephant memory with unlimited storage capacity for all subjects
d) Ability to see links and patterns that others don't
Can a truly gifted, who is endowed with such natural talents not do well in exam because they are skewed? Their elephant memory will pull them through easily even if they don't like it.
HA kids usually have (a) and (b) and some also have (d). However, they don't have (c). It is \"elephant memory\" that allows the gifted to process new issues with cross reference to a much bigger data base at high speed and coming up with a solution. A HA kid needs to wake up and start storing all the info to do well. Those that failed to wake up will be lost in the crowd.
Hot-housed kids has only (a). At young age, their (b) appears good as they went through accelerated learning. As years go by, without the other factors, their results will suffer.
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