Is GEP really necessary?
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Don't worry, I don't have any flame here. I just here to chit chat and see see look look as usual. If I do distract you all, just ignore me.
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Sun_2010:
Precisely Sun! LJ is a good example of not having to go thru the pain of doing English the GEP way and yet getting a good support in other ways to pursue his passion. I thought he was a positive example of our education support system but somehow he has been construed and made to look as a negative example for GEP screening failure. *thud* :faint:
LJ has good support of his sec school, so how come it becomes MOE's failure I dont see. Yes he was not talent spotted early on but once his calibre was known , he has been provided with good support. -
Mychildren:
Of course we don't expect 100% accuracy lah. Must be God to be able to do that. But apparently, folks in MOE think they are gods and they say at the GEP briefing that NO ONE is incorrectly selected.
1. Yes, I don't expect 100% accuracy in the selection test.ksi:
You must be kidding to expect a 100% accuracy.
1. MOE can only try their best to be prudent in their processes to minimise but cannot eliminate. There is definitely a % of HA in there because between 1% and 1.1% any difference?
2. If that child is trained, the child already has the pre-requisite of innate ability. My personal experience is all those that I know who trained, DID NOT get in...and trained a few years...but academically doing above average in mainstream.
2. My personal experience too, told by the mother herself to me. (He was prepared for GEP selection test. How was it done, she never said.) By the way, he is HA too.
But again, I remember they have their own measurement, so they are 100% correct BY THEIR MEASUREMENT. Remember this discussion?
When dealing with gods, we must remember we are just mortals, until the idols are abolished. :imanangel: -
Sun_2010:
Good conclusion ksi.
Then again we are talking about 2 different things. My robustness points to keeping the HA kids who can be trained out of the selection. So my call is to parents, don't even bother about training. Your bastardization points to reducing 2E intake and getting in more giftedness in all-rounding, which in your definition is not possible to be omni-gifted, at best HA only. To you, there is only one definition for giftedness, 2E. Please talk to atutor2011 or Leonardo and see if they agree. In the discussion in this thread, it has gone off balance to dump down other gifted kids who are not in 2E. The range of giftedness is not limited to 2E.ksi:
[quote=\"2ppaamm\"]
Er... but the original selection process was devised by experts invited by MOE along with training the original set of teachers. Along the way, they couldn't cope with the teaching so they changed the whole selection system. I don't think this is called 'robustized', I'd rather call this 'accustomized', with compromise.
To use vlim's terminology, they used to choose kids with surface area bigger, but any shape. However, since they find it hard to even find the surface area of these children, they decided the biggest they can find, with the criteria of being round, and does not matter if their surface area is smaller than those who are odd shaped and not round. 
In short, GEP has its own definition of giftedness. And it is ok. As long as they don't lead parents of gifted children in all directions and only to find out through their own admission months later.
But this discussion is a good read for parents with 2E kids if they feel that GEP cannot meet their needs after learning about 2ppaamm's experience. The real problem is Singapore is too small, we do not have enough 2E kids to start a genius academy and likely not enough experts for 2E kids, the large countries can. Some 2E kids like Sheldon can fit GEP(maybe he is 3E, skewed and all-rounder), some like LJ cannot so all is not lost for 2E kids, it just have to be managed by exception. And we do not advocate management of exception by demolishing a system which works for another group of kids with the special learning needs.
:salute: for preserving to show the hollowness of some posts.
The fact is that Da vinci was not groomed by any educational system so why compare with him?
If at all a comparison needs to be made ( i dont see it as necessary but would be good to see) then it should be done with some other nation that has a gifted program in place and has produced such world renowned talents consistently.
LJ has good support of his sec school, so how come it becomes MOE's failure I dont see. Yes he was not talent spotted early on but once his calibre was known , he has been provided with good support.[/quote]Sadly, we don't have too many Da vinci today. I think our human being is de-evolution, instead evolution. :slapshead: -
Mychildren:
Kee kee, my elder DS. :evil:[/quote]Oic...kekeke...this one you have to consult our in-house consultant atutor2001 (Sorry I have been writing as atutor2011, my bad, sorry consultant ...)
Ladies, who is the 'he'? :?ksi:
[quote=\"ruohoo97\"]
Maybe he/she is late-bloomer. -
2ppaamm:
hahaha...
Of course we don't expect 100% accuracy lah. Must be God to be able to do that. But apparently, folks in MOE think they are gods and they say at the GEP briefing that NO ONE is incorrectly selected.
But again, I remember they have their own measurement, so they are 100% correct BY THEIR MEASUREMENT. Remember this discussion?
When dealing with gods, we must remember we are just mortals, until the idols are abolished. :imanangel:
So you see, all bases are covered.... :rotflmao:
Maybe you should call for revamp of the GEP briefing script instead.
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verykiasu2010:
:rotflmao: got to take it with a barrel of salt, not a pinchMelodies:
Your figures do support the point of GEPpers are higher in demand and TOP IP schools recognize this. :yikes:
Below are just a very rough calculation:
Presumably, average Tscore for GEPpers is 255 and this is top 6% for the whole cohort. There are abt 50k in a cohort so there are abt 3K pupils who have 255 t-score and above. Say all GEPper are evenly distributed to all IS school together with the comparable mainstreamers who has scored 255 and above, hence each school will have= 500/3000 = 16.7% GEPper. The fact is we are seeing higher % of GEPper population than 16.7% in TOP IP schools. There are abt 300 GEPper scored 255tscore n this shd give about 10% of GEPpers population for each IS school if we assume all comparable (based on PSLE score) GEPpers are evenly distributed to all IS schools with their comparable mainstream peers.
The conclusion is GEPpers are higher in demand and TOP IP schools do recognize this and prefer GEPpers to mainstreamers.
Do take the above calculation with a pinch of salts since the data is from KSP forumers and have not been verified with MOE.
what is the number 3000 ? how many IP schools now ?
why is GEPpers in demand ? isn't it the students choose the schools and not the school choose the students ? school can make DSA offers but if the students reject the CO what does it say ? -
ksi:
[quote]Oic...kekeke...this one you have to consult our in-house consultant atutor2001 (Sorry I have been writing as atutor2011, my bad, sorry consultant ...)[/quote]Wah... I am completely confused with this... :oops:
Kee kee, my elder DS. :evil:Mychildren:
Ladies, who is the 'he'? :? -
ksi:
Er... I have been converted, and refuse to worship these gods anymore, so I have cut all lines with them.
hahaha...2ppaamm:
Of course we don't expect 100% accuracy lah. Must be God to be able to do that. But apparently, folks in MOE think they are gods and they say at the GEP briefing that NO ONE is incorrectly selected.
But again, I remember they have their own measurement, so they are 100% correct BY THEIR MEASUREMENT. Remember this discussion?
When dealing with gods, we must remember we are just mortals, until the idols are abolished. :imanangel:
So you see, all bases are covered.... :rotflmao:
Maybe you should call for revamp of the GEP briefing script instead. BTW, what is your definition of 2E? 2E to the education is learning difficulties, e.g. dyslexia, asperger's ADHD + giftedness (at any level) leh... :? How come I think all GEP should be 2E? 
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2ppaamm:
can we look at same in a different way.All I know is that HA or gifted, they should be given the same opportunities. Hanging so much resources based upon one selection test at P3 does not make sense. There is really very little difference in the way these children grow. In fact, MANY gifted children are late developers too, so depriving them of access is really cruel.
A slice of bread may satiate me since since like light dinner I but it is like peanuts to my DH who had no lunch. Same amount on input but not the same amount of need, right?
Having gifted kids you probably know this better.
As the education system is built around the abilities of the slightly above average in ways it can be mass delivered so that they can be stretched to their potential , the very high ability and gifted ones need a more robust curriculum to stretch them too.2ppaamm:
There is a pretty decent education system by MOE ( lets leave the world class / best aside for now , i definitely dont agree with it but that another debate) Only a small portion seems to be dedicated to the top, especially considering the GEP schools are a small part of a few mainstream schools only.
I believe all kids should be given the SAME opportunities by the GOVERNMENT, not home yeah? Whether they are gifted, HA, average or below average. In a society, we must always look after the last 10%, and the average as well. It is not right to sink in the resources to look after only the top, because the top can always look after themselves, just like the rich in every country should always pay more taxes, and not get payouts.
Even if the resource that is being spent on these 500 kids is spread out to the 50,000 kids , it will be so diluted that i doubt it will make a noticable difference to the whole cohort.2ppaamm:
The problem is it is not the MOE's expectation of the child that rankles ( dont think thay have any official expectation) but that of the public.
As for being in GEP and they are facing so much expectations. To him much is given, much is expected.
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