so now you are richest man in the world
-
Hi 3Boys
You are indeed right to suspect Yawningbread's analysis. He started with a conclusion (maybe he is still sulking over the apology he had to make) and tried (albeit unsuccessfully) to justify it. He might be able to string a few words together but an economist or a student of economics he is not.
In case you are interested, please refer to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita
On a PPP basis, every country is compared against USA for a basket of goods/services. In Singapore's case, our cost of living is lower than that of USA. Therefore, there is a net positive adjustment and our GDP on a PPP basis would appear higher.
That is the simple explanation for the discrepancy that YB is experiencing. No government fudging is involved.
And his theory of PR or non residents helping to boost our GDP because they are not counted as part of the denominator is simply ridiculous. -
SingDadNZ:
If NZ's or any western country's policies have not a single case of anyone falling through the cracks, I say adopt it immediately. But how possible is that?
In every society there are people who fell through the crack in the system. There are people with heavy depression, addictions, physically and are emotionally handicapped. They just can’t function and be productive in a society and many due to old age. In the Asian society the family traditionally absorbs the burden and the cost of looking after the so called unproductive unmotivated members. The western society, it is a collective burden and that is why I pay 33% tax on my salary. A child is cut lose at 18 and are allowed to move out of the family home. A lot of help is given by the society through the taxes for them to make it on their own. Some fell through the crack but many go on to invent great things to make life better for their fellow beings, create mega business and discovered innovative breakthroughs in communication, in the medical field, technology and computers and internet that made all this possible.
Take an example of my 86 years old Singaporean dad. He was a very hard working man and the backbone of Singapore’s formative years. He started work when he was 14 and was retired as an electric fitter at age 55 in 1981. He put his children through university and two of them in London in the 1970’s. On his retirement, his last drawn salary was about $600 and a CPF saving about $25,000. As a child I have watched how hard my parents worked and saved. All his saving was spend on the children and managing a home. In the 31 years since his retirement assuming my mom and dad need about $800 per month (averaged out) to have a basic life style, has cost to date $297,600. That excludes more than $30,000 spent on hospitalization, medicine and dental care in the last 4-5 years. Where do you think the money came from? Many Singaporean will say why don’t they work as a cleaner in a hawkers stall or give out flyers on street corners (which is a common sight of aged people in Singapore). These are the same people who refuse to put a wheel chair friendly bus in our neighborhood even though I appealed to the bus company and the local MPs two years ago. Last year we spent more than a thousand dollars on taxi fare as my dad is unable to stand up due to damaged nerves. What do you think the problem is? Lack of financial resources or lack of empathy for the people who fell though the crack?? Where do you think my parents will be sleeping if we the children did not support them. :siao:
Every policy crafted needs to address the masses and exceptional cases be dealt with separately.
You said it yourself, all your Dad's earnings are spent on raising his children, it is now the children's turn to give back some. I would rather my money go directly into supporting my own parents then for it to go to a common fund supporting the general public. -
Irrelevant:
Thank you! :salute:Hi 3Boys
You are indeed right to suspect Yawningbread's analysis. He started with a conclusion (maybe he is still sulking over the apology he had to make) and tried (albeit unsuccessfully) to justify it. He might be able to string a few words together but an economist or a student of economics he is not.
In case you are interested, please refer to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita
On a PPP basis, every country is compared against USA for a basket of goods/services. In Singapore's case, our cost of living is lower than that of USA. Therefore, there is a net positive adjustment and our GDP on a PPP basis would appear higher.
That is the simple explanation for the discrepancy that YB is experiencing. No government fudging is involved.
And his theory of PR or non residents helping to boost our GDP because they are not counted as part of the denominator is simply ridiculous.
I am honestly quite tired of doing all the number crunching to 'disprove' so called analyses put forth by people with an axe to grind, more so since I am not in any way schooled in economics.
But it is quite shocking how gullible and selective people can be when faced with such things. I suppose if someone finds an article that fits ones view, the tendency is to swallow whole.
So much for the internet as a market place of ideas. Check, check and check again. -
3Boys:
That's why need pple like you around mah..
But it is quite shocking how gullible and selective people can be when faced with such things. I suppose if someone finds an article that fits ones view, the tendency is to swallow whole.
So much for the internet as a market place of ideas. Check, check and check again.
You cannot expect everyone to be proficient in those economic stuff right?
For those who are not trained, it is very easy for a well crafted article to have big influence..
Not bcoz it fits one view.. but bcoz they are not trained to be able to detect any \"questionable\" stuff..
It is good to have alternative views to point out the things that an untrained person cannot easily pick up.. then the reader can make their own judgement. -
limlim:
Thats quite true.
That's why need pple like you around mah..3Boys:
But it is quite shocking how gullible and selective people can be when faced with such things. I suppose if someone finds an article that fits ones view, the tendency is to swallow whole.
So much for the internet as a market place of ideas. Check, check and check again.
You cannot expect everyone to be proficient in those economic stuff right?
For those who are not trained, it is very easy for a well crafted article to have big influence..
Not bcoz it fits one view.. but bcoz they are not trained to be able to detect any \"questionable\" stuff..
It is good to have alternative views to point out the things that an untrained person cannot easily pick up.. then the reader can make their own judgement.
But how come we expect anyone's analysis as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth .
The only criteria is it seems is not from any govt agency or related site. -
I guess even high Gini coefficient may not even be a problem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient
I quote from the article which cite credible academics
==
Another limitation of Gini coefficient is that it is not a proper measure of egalitarianism, as it is only measures income dispersion. For example, if two equally egalitarian countries pursue different immigration policies, the country accepting a higher proportion of low-income or impoverished migrants will report a higher Gini coefficient and therefore may appear to exhibit more income inequality.
Gini coefficient falls yet the poor gets poorer, Gini coefficient rises yet everyone getting richer.
== -
Since I'm rather free this afternoon, I would like to add 2 more cts on this silly report by Citibank and Knight Frank.
GDP is a measure of the value of goods and services produced in the country. Therefore, a high per capita GDP merely illustrates that the people in a country is rather productive, nothing more. It is NOT an indication of wealth, only of POTENTIAL income.
What about wages then? Surely with a high per capita GDP, we should be paying higher wages?
http://business.asiaone.com/Business/News/Office/Story/A1Story20100517-216611.html
Based on this report, the wage share of GDP in Singapore has been bouncing around 40% plus or so whereas in the USA, it is closer to 60%. If these percentages did not change recently, it would mean that to achieve similar level of wages as in the USA, our per capita GDP must by 40-50% higher!
And then, of course, there is the Gini coefficient.... -
Irrelevant:
Since I'm rather free this afternoon, I would like to add 2 more cts on this silly report by Citibank and Knight Frank.
GDP is a measure of the value of goods and services produced in the country. Therefore, a high per capita GDP merely illustrates that the people in a country is rather productive, nothing more. It is NOT an indication of wealth, only of POTENTIAL income.
What about wages then? Surely with a high per capita GDP, we should be paying higher wages?
http://business.asiaone.com/Business/News/Office/Story/A1Story20100517-216611.html
Based on this report, the wage share of GDP in Singapore has been bouncing around 40% plus or so whereas in the USA, it is closer to 60%. If these percentages did not change recently, it would mean that to achieve similar level of wages as in the USA, our per capita GDP must by 40-50% higher!
And then, of course, there is the Gini coefficient....
:goodpost:
Where have you been hiding all this while Mr Irrelevant?
I completely agree income distribution is a problem in Singapore. -
WeiHan:
No, I have said before that income distribution IS A problem in Singapore. The lower paid workers need a leg up, be it via taxes and grants, I don't know, but something needs to be done.I guess even high Gini coefficient may not even be a problem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient
I quote from the article which cite credible academics
==
Another limitation of Gini coefficient is that it is not a proper measure of egalitarianism, as it is only measures income dispersion. For example, if two equally egalitarian countries pursue different immigration policies, the country accepting a higher proportion of low-income or impoverished migrants will report a higher Gini coefficient and therefore may appear to exhibit more income inequality.
Gini coefficient falls yet the poor gets poorer, Gini coefficient rises yet everyone getting richer.
== -
3Boys:
How do you account for the fact that income for average singaporeans have been stagnant but yet GDP/capita has increased?
No, I have said before that income distribution IS A problem in Singapore. The lower paid workers need a leg up, be it via taxes and grants, I don't know, but something needs to be done.WeiHan:
I guess even high Gini coefficient may not even be a problem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient
I quote from the article which cite credible academics
==
Another limitation of Gini coefficient is that it is not a proper measure of egalitarianism, as it is only measures income dispersion. For example, if two equally egalitarian countries pursue different immigration policies, the country accepting a higher proportion of low-income or impoverished migrants will report a higher Gini coefficient and therefore may appear to exhibit more income inequality.
Gini coefficient falls yet the poor gets poorer, Gini coefficient rises yet everyone getting richer.
==
Is either
1. The non-residential workers have been taken out of the denominator when calculating GDP/capita. ( I still don't see why this argument is ridiculous)
2. The richest 10% really account for all the GDP increases
3. Others?
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