Is GEP really necessary?
-
Sun_2010:
:goodpost: Sun!
:goodpost: tcktck:
I think we can all agree that Singapore mainstream schooling isn't ideal, large class size, (arguably) worse teachers, one-size-fits-all curriculum etc. The government has seen it fit to bestow upon a small group of students an enriched curriculum coupled with significantly smaller class size. I think we all agree that every student (not just GEP kids) will benefit from a differentiated (not necessarily enriched) curriculum and small class sizes.
However, the vitriol seen in this thread smacks of envy and sadly sometimes hearsay, misinformation and personal prejudices (from bad experience with GE branch).
If GEP is renamed HAEP, but all benefits remain intact, will the calls for its disbandment remain? I'm afraid the crab mentality will still be there, whatever you call the rose.
Asking for abolishment of DSA is definitely a step backwards. It is precisely because PSLE had its flaws (requires kids to be good in all subjects and to be academically strong) that DSA was conceived. Now kids can go to their preferred schools via sports, arts, language, math etc. And there are even specialised schools for kids who weren't identified earlier. Every kid has a chance at DSA.
Discuss as much as possible on how to make Singapore education better for ALL, but stop trying to pull down this 1%.
You have put into words what quite a few of us KSPer feel. Many GEPper parents are drained by the constant need to justify the GEP i this thread. No point when the detractors seem bent on not listening , it seems. But I feel there is a need to state otherwise it is a lopsided argument which will be taken as the truth by those who are just beginning to hear about GEP.
This is where statements such as \"everyone says...\" begins...
Just like the sample data bandied about .
\"Based on the GEPpers I know\", \"based on my experience\" and \"according of my child's teacher/or friend /or another GEP parent\"...etc
Really but really, how many does one know well personally unless one is a GEP teacher?
Your own children, a few from your childrens' class ?
Out of the 500 x no of years that GEP has been around. Isnt it obvious the sample size is too small ? Based on that decisions can be taken??
Not dissing all posts.
There were some good inputs. Some general pointers that are helpful in our quest to be good parents. About the flaws of GEP, about the approach of education system. That is good. But that get lost in the vitriol emanating from some posts. The generalization, the assumptions and presumptions ....it grates.
so thank you tck for taking the time to articulate -
limlim:
Only gifted students are creative meh?
If they aren't really gifted, then, it defeats the purpose of the program.tck:
Another topic that keeps coming up is that GEP kids are trained and hot-housed and so aren't really gifted. Again, giftedness is wide-ranging. For a few forumers here with PG kids, only PG is considered gifted. To them, only PG kids require intervention. How many PG/EG kids can there be in Singapore each year?
A well trained student isn't going be to be creative in approaches but maybe only good at applying textbook solutions to problems. And if they are bought up with overdose of tuition, they may turn out to be reliance on extra help. ( hmm.. talk about getting extra help from outside foreign sources.. or FTs )
What does the test involve actually? is it something that can be trained?
Just wondering.. A truly gifted student may not do well in exams.. But a well-trained student with overdose of tuition, may. What does \"gifted\" means then? gift them the extra resources because they did well in a test or tests?
I guess Bill Gates is a school dropout? like Newton..?
I have no issues with GEP, if not for the fact that rich parents with more resources at their disposal may gain unfair advantage to the kids with over dose of trainings. And these trainings aren't going to create \"giftedness\".... And the product of the GEP may not be truly beneficial to society..
-
Nebbermind:
Sitting back and waiting for a response to tck!
Me too! Because I am not one of the crabs, I wouldn't care to comment. Honestly, it is because I can't even get across the first paragraph, too.
But I am enjoying the view after your transformation! :evil:
-
2ppaamm:
Not class size. I took the number of students doing GEP and divide that by the number of teachers. Each class has more than 1 teacher. So roughly, a school with 6 classes of GEP (or 150 students) has about 15 GEP teachers, excluding principal and GEB. Ditto for the mainstreamers part, just add all the students and teachers, and then divide. Student-teacher ratio does not equate class size. :)[/quote]I see. I can't remember how many GEP teachers there were in my dd's school already. So can't confirm if the ratio was 10:1.
The GEP student:teacher ratio is 10:1? My dd never had that. It was around 23:1.jtoh:
[quote=\"2ppaamm\"]
It is not just a small class size, the GEP student-teacher ratio is 10:1, while the mainstreamers is 30:1. See the difference? I have not put in the resources from GEB. I believe there is room to spread this across to a bigger base. -
2ppaamm:
Stealing the limelight ,isnt he?Nebbermind:
Sitting back and waiting for a response to tck!
Me too! Because I am not one of the crabs, I wouldn't care. But I am enjoying the view after your transformation! :evil:
Just make sure a gust of wind doesnt blow away the leaf
I cant help :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: -
Saw an Old interesting article , i wonder If we have any updated studies like this . I only understood pg 1 and 2 , the rest like rocket science ....remedial lessons for GEP students at A levels......
http://www.cs.uic.edu/~liub/publications/kddind2000.pdf -
tck:
:goodpost: tck! You've expressed what a lot of us feel and have been trying to voice out over and over again on this forum, only perhaps less eloquently. Thank you.Can't help but be reminded of the Crab Syndrome after reading this thread.
From Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality
Crab mentality, sometimes referred to as crabs in the bucket, describes a way of thinking best described by the phrase \"if I can't have it, neither can you.\" The metaphor refers to a pot of crabs. Individually, the crabs could easily escape from the pot, but instead, they grab at each other in a useless \"king of the hill\" competition which prevents any from escaping and ensures their collective demise.[1][2] The analogy in human behavior is that of a group that will attempt to \"pull down\" (negate or diminish the importance of) any member who achieves success beyond the others, out of envy,[3] conspiracy or competitive feelings.
***************************
I think we can all agree that Singapore mainstream schooling isn't ideal, large class size, (arguably) worse teachers, one-size-fits-all curriculum etc. The government has seen it fit to bestow upon a small group of students an enriched curriculum coupled with significantly smaller class size. I think we all agree that every student (not just GEP kids) will benefit from a differentiated (not necessarily enriched) curriculum and small class sizes.
However, the vitriol seen in this thread smacks of envy and sadly sometimes hearsay, misinformation and personal prejudices (from bad experience with GE branch). Instead of calling for these \"benefits\" to be taken away from this 1%, the discussion should instead be to fight for all kids to have, for example, small class sizes. Just because most think small class sizes will never come to mainstreamers, is it right then to pour so much scorn on GEP and call for them to lose these \"privileges\"?
Some forumers here keep harping on the fact that GEP kids aren't really gifted, ONLY High-Ability. Then so be it. If GEP is renamed HAEP, but all benefits remain intact, will the calls for its disbandment remain? I'm afraid the crab mentality will still be there, whatever you call the rose.
Another topic that keeps coming up is that GEP kids are trained and hot-housed and so aren't really gifted. Again, giftedness is wide-ranging. For a few forumers here with PG kids, only PG is considered gifted. To them, only PG kids require intervention. How many PG/EG kids can there be in Singapore each year? Be realistic. Stop bashing a programme just cos your kid can't fit in. Again, no Crab Mentality, just cos others can fit in, suddenly, they are robots and mindless worker ants that are only fit to be administrators for the Singapore government. Many kids have and are benefiting from GEP, as some parents have attested to in this thread.
I believe GEP has cast the net wider in recent years and now offer more places than before, perhaps to take into account the possibility of kids having been trained/hothoused (instead of 1%, it's now 1.5%? I may be wrong). So more kids are getting into the programme and this wider net also minimizes the chance of missing out a truly gifted child. And honestly, seriously, how many percent of the 500 GEP kids each year do detractors truly think has been hothoused? Do not paint the entire group with the same brush, as if every single one of these kids has been hothoused.
Asking for abolishment of DSA is definitely a step backwards. It is precisely because PSLE had its flaws (requires kids to be good in all subjects and to be academically strong) that DSA was conceived. Now kids can go to their preferred schools via sports, arts, language, math etc. And there are even specialised schools for kids who weren't identified earlier. Every kid has a chance at DSA. If a child doesn't have a niche that schools are looking for, then voila, there's still the PSLE route. Calls for using only PSLE results is just the type of envious Crab Mentality of those who don't have a niche. It's not that they think their kids will get into the preferred schools through PSLE, it's just that they don't want these other kids to get in through DSA. Sad.
There is a worse scenario you know. Imagine if at its conception, it was decided that GEP kids will be grouped in one academy. And it's through-train for all these kids. These kids do not even need to take PSLE. Would you guys prefer that? As it is now, GEP kids are taught in mainstream schools. And not everyone gets DSA. GEP kids need to take PSLE too. So please lah, can stop with the Crab Mentality? Discuss as much as possible on how to make Singapore education better for ALL, but stop trying to pull down this 1%. -
Actually, in concept, I feel, GEP is good.
However, I have no confidence in the selection process… and the criteria. If there is no good way to identify a gifted child, might as well not have the program. -
:rotflmao:
-
Aiyah! No need for popcorn. :evil:
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login