Is GEP really necessary?
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Dnls_mum:
If what you said is true those in blue above, I say if if if, :scratchhead:
:goodpost: Well said.2ppaamm:
:goodpost: I agree! I thought I addressed these earlier... don't know which page already... paste here again... in a nutshell, we need to alleviate the position of teachers, get the best people to be teachers, pay them well. Afterall, what is more important than our children well taught. At least the Finnish realized this, when is Singapore going to realize this?
The Singapore education system has changed a great deal since I knew it. I was born to illiterate parents who made good. My parents knew nothing about reading English, though they speak it being natural linguists. My parents knew nothing about what were taught in schools. Therefore, like most parents during my time, we left all the teaching to the teachers and schools. I remember one time when I returned home from school criticizing my principal - the way she sang the National Anthem, I was 10. My father didn't even bother to listen, he just gave me a slap across my face and told me to be respectful.
We had a lot of respect for our teachers in those days, because our teachers far exceeded our parents in academic knowledge. Teachers were empowered to teach, even disciplined us whenever they saw the need. I remember in those days, whenever I was marked wrong in Math, which was seldom, as I scored full marks for every Math test, exam and papers all the way to PSLE, I would just go to the teacher. They would normally look at them and decide if they would accord me marks, though I used a different method from them. Often, they would just change the marks and then put a star there, since it was always full-marks in the end. They were only accountable to what was right and what was wrong, not encumbered. When I could not do my work, since I was relatively weak in Science, they would explain things in detail and taught me how to answer each question. In fact, I learned how to bake and cook in school the same way: I learned creaming, rubbing, whipping methods from my teachers. In turn, I taught my mum. All because, teachers were smarter than parents and they were left to do their jobs.
But I had so much problems in school. I was a misfit as well. My teachers punished me, and even penalized me, taking away my awards and gave them to the second placed child - twice. There was discrimination in schools in those days, but because of who I am, I couldn't conform to school, teachers expect 100% compliance, I liked to challenge. Now that I am an adult, I realized because I had no respect for status quo, I began making innovations and filed some patents. Those skills that were not respected were the exact skills that were needed in our world, but in Singapore schools, questioning were never endured. Fortunately, back in those days, it did not matter what our attitude was, as long as we passed a standard exam, we get to move on to the school of our choice.
Fast forward to today. The power has shifted to a large extent. Our education WAS so successful in raising a generation, most parents are very educated, informed and capable today. The ability of the teachers has improved too: many primary school teachers are graduates today versus our 'O' levels teachers in those days, but the teaching profession has not been able to attract good candidates. How do we adapt to this change? I can think of two solutions: one is for the MOE to recruit very 'powerful' teachers. That means, teachers must be very qualified and highly paid. There are many merits in doing so, and one fantastic example of such a success is the Finland education and reform. They successfully created an education system which then feed into a great workforce. However, this means $$$, government money, and, from the many debates and discussions, we know it is not going to happen. The merits of making teaching the MOST desired professional (in Finland, the second most desired is Medical Doctor) has many advantages, and these are well-researched, but we know that is not going to happen in Singapore. The other solution I can think of, is to hold a tighter rein on teachers, tell them exactly how to handle these more learned parents, their endless questions, and if the teachers cannot handle, escalate the problem, which is the phenomenon in schools today - GEP or not. If the teachers cannot handle - refer to HOD, and the line of command goes all the way. Marking? Stick to the answer sheets, and as long as you do that, there's no way people can challenge you. If challenged by parents who know their work, teachers just say that the answers are not in the answer sheet. So, my take of teachers not being able to mark properly is because of their fear of making mistakes, and by sticking to the answer sheets, they are in a safe harbour. Consequently, we have a bunch of highly qualified teachers, incapacitated by the KPI system and their own inferiority complex.
The bell-curve, which is used in PSLE, or whatever curve they choose to use, has the same purpose and effect. To use the Education Minister's own words, is to make people compete for the best. With all due respect, education is not about competing with each other, it is about bringing out the best in each. Regardless, with this curve hanging around parents' neck, and since the ministry is so aware of the Singaporean kiasu mentality, it is therefore effortless to have high performing students, riding on parents all wanting to push the kids to the right of the curve, wherever the curve maybe. This is the best automated machine in the world if you think about it. As long as parents 'play ball', the results will be sterling: parents will push their kids to excel, and send their kids to tuition, GEP preparation and enrichment classes so that they are better than their peers of the same age. I shudder to think that very soon, many Singaporeans will have to study 24x7 if they were to stay at the top. As of now, even very gifted children have to study till late and have tuitions. During our times, I remember not having even 1 assessment book for PSLE and only 1 for GCE 'O' Levels, and I still did very well. This will keep going until the 'bubble' burst. Don't know when. Hence, children get burnt out.
I have seen and studied many education systems: Chinese local, international schools in China, local system, local international, foreign public and private schools, because my kids were enrolled in them one time or another. I have come to realize that our system has its merits (I agree) but it is not sustainable. It is scary, and has no meaning. Children lose their childhood, passion and love for what they love through hothousing across the island. There are better systems out there, just if the policy makers would come down from their ivory towers and understand that the masses is made up of average people, not all scholars. There are people we can learn from, just if those who set the policies would recognize and admit to that, and stop fooling themselves that we have the BEST policy in the world, when the current academic success is fueled by the hard work of parents and a shadow education system. We don't and can't have the best education system in the world, no country can ever claim she does.
The problem is that in Singapore, education is no long used as a social leveler. I read somewhere once that wiki leaks have a report about some ministry person saying that they don't want everyone to go uni......I can't verify this, but I have heard similar insinuation on many occasions. So sad...sigh.
So i must say that I am lucky and that my non GEP son is in a school that has good teachers. He is doing decently well even though he is in a class close to 40. Whew! :xedfingers: Again, we make the best of the situation.
I think they don't want so many scholars in Singapore.
This could because nobody will want to work as office cleaner, counter staff or toilet cleaner or dish cleaner or those at food courts etc. Sorry I did not mean that this job is low class or whatever. But they are of lower pay. Moreover, Singaporean don't like imports like FT, government no choice has to only give 1:20 attention to the 1%.
My guess only, this topic is very sensitive & I might offend someone up there. This is only if and I think only. OK? :nailbite: -
2ppaamm:
Your point here is about social mobility. Sadly, it has been reported that Singapore has one of the lowest social mobility in the world for a developed country.
Problem is, some people can't even get started... :sad: and they are just left there to handle on their own with no resources. Poverty and lack can be be a tragedy, even in today's Singapore. Some people can never get out of their dump.Dnls_mum:
education help determine our starting point and get us started. But it does not determine how we do after that. Hard work, attitude and ability to apply what we have learned will determine if we are successful in life. We need to be self motivated. Those who expects external motivation or expect the environment and external conditions to change to help us along will be disappointed.
please don't bash me! :xedfingers:
So, it's true that while no one is being denied an education in Singapore regardless of their financial ability, some one from a less than ideal family environment need to be self motivated to move out of the trap, and so more often than not moves in a vicious cycle. But in my personal opinion, that has nothing to do with GEP or non GEP. -
Mychildren:
:rotflmao: people are sensitive because most people are trying to fend for their own, which is normal....government no choice has to only give 1:20 attention to the 1%.
My guess only, this topic is very sensitive & I might offend someone up there. This is only if and I think only. OK? :nailbite:
Anyway, your reasoning is logical, but, why only for 3 years, and then suddenly, there's no more need to nurture this group after PSLE. -
2ppaamm:
I have had a discussion with the director or GE branch when I was deciding which secondary school to send my son to. She told me that they do monitor the performance of each and every GE kid that is granted GE status in secondary school whether they are in a so called GE secondary school or not. So they are not really abandoned after 3 yrs.
:rotflmao: people are sensitive because most people are trying to fend for their own, which is normal.Mychildren:
...government no choice has to only give 1:20 attention to the 1%.
My guess only, this topic is very sensitive & I might offend someone up there. This is only if and I think only. OK? :nailbite:
Anyway, your reasoning is logical, but, why only for 3 years, and then suddenly, there's no more need to nurture this group after PSLE. -
2ppaamm:
Most are only offended when people try to make the 1% look bad in order for the 99% to look good.
:rotflmao: people are sensitive because most people are trying to fend for their own, which is normal.Mychildren:
...government no choice has to only give 1:20 attention to the 1%.
My guess only, this topic is very sensitive & I might offend someone up there. This is only if and I think only. OK? :nailbite:
Anyway, your reasoning is logical, but, why only for 3 years, and then suddenly, there's no more need to nurture this group after PSLE. -
wsywin2012:
'cos the powers that be subscribed to the Plato's Aristocracy regime? Perhaps we should end this discussion on whether GEP necessary or not but start a new thread on how to improve the system for the rest of the masses?: but i still think that MOE has considered all of these issues and decided that GEP is still necessary. Singapore can only depend on her citizens, so maybe MOE's mindset is to create a group of \"elite\" citizens, i guess...
well, i personally don't think that it is correct or wrong to implement the GEP. people look from different perspectives.
some feel that education should be focus on the better ones more, since they usually have a greater capacity and are able to learn more \"chim\" things faster, so the govt should allocate more resources to this group of students
however others feel that education should focus on everyone and make all citizens equally good.
We are a small little red city state. A life left undeveloped to its fullest potential is one too many already... -
Nebbermind:
Ah... but there's no need to make one look bad for another to look good. Thanks for the enlightenment... wondering why so worked out. But you know, look bad or good depends on the glasses you wear... I think everyone gets misunderstood and misquoted on a forum like this. I misunderstood some stuff and when I go back to read, realized I misread some posts as well! :stupid:
Most are only offended when people try to make the 1% look bad in order for the 99% to look good. -
ponyo:
And I cannot agree more, especially for a country that spends so much resources and $$$ trying to woo foreigners into our country, when we don't even look after our own to the best of our abilities.
We are a small little red city state. A life left undeveloped to its fullest potential is one too many already...
I am saddened whenever I go back to Singapore... and wonder if that is the country I know. I cannot even get to speak my Singlish to the Chinese restaurant manager, nowadays, even hotel managers are Filipinos. I think to myself, very soon, we will be like many western countries, 'invaded' by the foreigners, they purchase all the expensive properties, we rent from them, they set up all the companies, we work for them, they are high ranking, we work for them. I am seeing these signs more and more. This is the country that my parents and grandparents built their homes, and now, even I have to leave, with all my resources, because of an education system won't cater, and to think that a host country would receive us with open arms, and scholarships galore. I think something is so wrong. It is like you try to fill a cup on one end, and then let it leak from another. -
Melodies:
[/quote]:goodpost:
I remembered a Jewish American mother asks: 'How many GOOD questions did you ask your teacher today?'
eh... must start by encouraging questions first mah then slowly slowly the thought process will get refined lah.
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2ppaamm:
no, no don't give up on us... we need all the hands/brains/legs to make this country a nation we can be proud of. I used to go down that negative road too. Then I told myself, no, no no, cannot think this way. Even if I cannot agree with the system, the powers that be, I must try to help in whichever way I can. Be an agent of change. I may not be able to contribute materially but at least I can do something positive. Help with schoolwork, be a positive influence on my kids and others around me etc
And I cannot agree more, especially for a country that spends so much resources and $$$ trying to woo foreigners into our country, when we don't even look after our own to the best of our abilities.ponyo:
We are a small little red city state. A life left undeveloped to its fullest potential is one too many already...
I am saddened whenever I go back to Singapore... and wonder if that is the country I know. I cannot even get to speak my Singlish to the Chinese restaurant manager, nowadays, even hotel managers are Filipinos. I think to myself, very soon, we will be like many western countries, 'invaded' by the foreigners, they purchase all the expensive properties, we rent from them, they set up all the companies, we work for them, they are high ranking, we work for them. I am seeing these signs more and more. This is the country that my parents and grandparents built their homes, and now, even I have to leave, with all my resources, because of an education system won't cater, and to think that a host country would receive us with open arms, and scholarships galore. I think something is so wrong. It is like you try to fill a cup on one end, and then let it leak from another.
:offtopic:
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