PM Asks "What kind of people do we want to be?"

[Dora1]

verykiasu2010:

3Boys:

There is something about basic human decency, that once transgressed and if not challenged and bashed straight back into the ground where it belongs, becomes corrosive. That's why I do not accept any mitigation for the vitriol that pours forth against foreigners. Criticism yes, vile abuse, no.


Go read about how the German society was turned in its darkest days from being mildly anti-semitic to a mass-murdering nation under the Nazis. It all starts with subtle discrimination, in the guise of correcting for imbalances in the economy (the Depression then). Finger pointing against the Jews, slowly escalating to a steady stream of public outcry and abuse. Places in schools, business licenses, special taxes........sound familiar?

The problem with accepting this type of behaviour is that it is difficult to reverse once it gains momentum. And then, bad elements who seek to exploit this for their own gain will fan the flames. Then how do we differentiate those who are blowing of steam, versus those who are just plain maliciously xenophobic?

We can't.

That is why we must never accept it. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

I quote; \"Words can create an attitude. If a person says something loud enough and often enough, he creates a climate. And under that climate, all sorts of things can happen.\" <http://www.aish.com/ho/o/48954321.html>

We will never be the Nazis, but Singaporeans are showing an ugly xenophobic face, and it is disgraceful.

:goodpost: and government must ALSO recognise and help solve the problem of work place discrimination by FT against SC, or put it another way, FT's preference for their fellow countrymen FT over the local SC.

an openly liberal MOM \"policy\" of allowing the influx will create resentment amongst SC, or its lack of policy in judging who is the deserving FT / PR to be allowed in. Granted, it is a fine balance between filling up the gaps due to lack of sufficient births and the need for real expat to bring in FDI and econ growth....and that is why we pay them super high to solve the problem

xenophobic trend cannot be tolerated and work place HR policies need to be sensitively balanced

:goodpost: I couldn't have said it better.
3boys, I understand all that you are saying. And as I posted earlier on, the last thing I want to see is for the online nastiness to become real social unrest. However, if the root cause is not solved, any propaganda to stop the xenophobic behaviour is going to get a reverse effect - it will be perceived that the gov is encouraging the foreigners to bully us, and we are expected to just keep quiet about it. This perception is already quite deep rooted in the online community, the way I see it. So the more the gov or PM or whoever \"up there\" condemns Singaporeans xenophobic behaviour, it is just going to fuel the behaviour, if no other concrete actions to address the root cause are taken in parallel.

Silent hermit, I agree with you. I entered stat board with the hope that I can help singaporeans. But for the first 12 months of so, everyday I found myself fighting with the bueracracy and the senseless layers and layers of red tape, just for the sake of helping my fellow singaporeans. After that I am seriously very tired of all the fighting and red tape, and I just do what I can now. I can't afford to spend all my energy and waking hours to fight the system. I have my responsibility towards my family as well. If I am single with no family commitment, I might just be the matyr and try to change the system.
I can't elaborate more because it will be very sensitive, but yes you are right, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
But do remember why the Gov woke up last year..... :evil:

[corneyAmber]

atutor2001:

ksi:

...Also if I look at this teaching positively, I think there is a lot to learn from the Jews how to borrow cigarette instead.

Yes, the positive note is that Jews are shrewd businessman. However, perhaps they should not take too much advantage and be more reasonable in their deals. Mention Jews, and I think of George Soro - the man who crashed the pounds. Such stereotyping is bad. However, I would not have responded this way if his action is a one off case regarding Jews. I am sure there are also many Jews doing good. Ya, human tends to remember and highlight bad deeds and overlook good. However, there have to be a trend. Otherwise why is Jews being singled out internationally and not other races - it is cause and effect.

There might be an element of truth in the cause and effect but that applies to everyone. As for why Jews? Because Jews are the \"chosen\" people so there is more attention on them? :rotflmao: ok this is a joking point.

Btw, internationally blondes are also singled out to be \"dumb\" in jokes but that is surely not true what...

I do understand when we talk we just like to point to some trend as a pre-requisite for us to size up certain situations like a referral to a chart. However, I hope after sizing up, every one is given an opportunity to be viewed as an individual with their unique personalities and values. In general, a group of people may still behave the same due to cultural background but the point here is don't look at the world with coloured lenses from the start. Sometimes it is to our disadvantage as you may not know you may lose out an opportunity to make a very good 'ngam-key' friend.

[Imami]

3Boys:

There is something about basic human decency, that once transgressed and if not challenged and bashed straight back into the ground where it belongs, becomes corrosive. That's why I do not accept any mitigation for the vitriol that pours forth against foreigners. Criticism yes, vile abuse, no.


Go read about how the German society was turned in its darkest days from being mildly anti-semitic to a mass-murdering nation under the Nazis. It all starts with subtle discrimination, in the guise of correcting for imbalances in the economy (the Depression then). Finger pointing against the Jews, slowly escalating to a steady stream of public outcry and abuse. Places in schools, business licenses, special taxes........sound familiar?

The problem with accepting this type of behaviour is that it is difficult to reverse once it gains momentum. And then, bad elements who seek to exploit this for their own gain will fan the flames. Then how do we differentiate those who are blowing of steam, versus those who are just plain maliciously xenophobic?

We can't.

That is why we must never accept it. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
I quote; \"Words can create an attitude. If a person says something loud enough and often enough, he creates a climate. And under that climate, all sorts of things can happen.\" <http://www.aish.com/ho/o/48954321.html>

We will never be the Nazis, but Singaporeans are showing an ugly xenophobic face, and it is disgraceful.

:goodpost:

[atutor2001]

ksi:

.....In general, a group of people may still behave the same due to cultural background but the point here is don't look at the world with coloured lenses from the start. Sometimes it is to our disadvantage as you may not know you may lose out an opportunity to make a very good 'ngam-key' friend.

This is the point I was arriving at. Due to cultural background, certain nationality behave with a certain trend. You may not have noted. Once foreign workers from a certain country were employed as cleaners ... They were very hardworking and quiet. Then a couple of vicious attacks by these group of people happened and innocent lives were lost. Yes, the attackers made up less than 10 individuals. However, I hardly see any of these foreign workers here now. Why?

I am not against foreign workers but we must be very careful. We are letting in a huge number from a certain country now. Those who have experience with them will know that the initial group coming in many years ago were good - hardworking and knowledgeable (not a typical profile of their people). The moment more come in without thorough screening, we are getting the average people who will exhibit their general characteristic - usually loud, friendly, lazy and worst - corrupted. I know many of them. Singapore is just a stepping stone, they have no plan to stay on to build the country. Their dream is US or make enough and return to be a rich man in their own country.

I think it is this type of FT that many are upset with.

[Way2GO]

3Boys:

There is something about basic human decency, that once transgressed and if not challenged and bashed straight back into the ground where it belongs, becomes corrosive. That's why I do not accept any mitigation for the vitriol that pours forth against foreigners. Criticism yes, vile abuse, no.


Go read about how the German society was turned in its darkest days from being mildly anti-semitic to a mass-murdering nation under the Nazis. It all starts with subtle discrimination, in the guise of correcting for imbalances in the economy (the Depression then). Finger pointing against the Jews, slowly escalating to a steady stream of public outcry and abuse. Places in schools, business licenses, special taxes........sound familiar?

The problem with accepting this type of behaviour is that it is difficult to reverse once it gains momentum. And then, bad elements who seek to exploit this for their own gain will fan the flames. Then how do we differentiate those who are blowing of steam, versus those who are just plain maliciously xenophobic?

We can't.

That is why we must never accept it. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

I quote; \"Words can create an attitude. If a person says something loud enough and often enough, he creates a climate. And under that climate, all sorts of things can happen.\" <http://www.aish.com/ho/o/48954321.html>

We will never be the Nazis, but Singaporeans are showing an ugly xenophobic face, and it is disgraceful.

First off, I concur with u dat vitriolic abuse against foreigners, other races/nationalities has no place in our society n it shd not be allowed to profligate unfettered.
However, let’s not also take d other extremist view dat all views such as Dora1's stemmed fr xenophobia.

D problem Dora1 shared on wat SCs experienced at work places is very real n is not an isolated case. Coupled with feelings of being crowded in a strained infrastructure n being trampled on in their own country, d frustrations hv been brewing for some time. Its d gahmen policies ppl r crying out about. Whilst I steadfastly stand by d position dat no one owes u a living n u make ur life d wat u want it to be, we don't live nor work in isolation. Like SilentHermit, I too cast a wary eye on wat d future holds for our children if we do not voice out n correct d problems we faced as a city-state.
It is gud dat dis gahmen is made aware of d problems n taking steps to address d problems.
I hv to qualify here dat I hv neither hear nor read PM's ND 2012 rally - I presumed it wld be abt new citizens integration, problem with LFR, bracing for global economic slowdown blah blah blah....

Wat one can also learn fr d history of d 3rd Reich is dat all power shd not be concentrated in d hands of one man (Hitler) who is above all laws, n d suppression of all opposing views n any opposition will be ruthlessly put down. Sounds familiar?

R we xenophobic as a ppl? I don’t believe we r. Not yet. SGreans r generally a very tolerant ppl n I wld like to continue to believe it is still so.
Before d huge influx of new economic immigrants fr d 90s, mainly fr PRC, India Phils, we hv been in blissful co-existence with d Malaysians PRs n WP holders (also mainly Chinese n Indians) since separation. D Malaysians PRs integrated n blended in so well dat d gahmen policies of giving d PRs almost equal undifferentiated privileges as SC without d NS obligations went unnoticed n un-questioned for so long.
Many of d new immigrants r a different kettle of fish with many not having d intention of sinking roots here permanently; many r here only for economic reasons n/or using SG as stepping stone to their final destination in d USA, Canada, other Western countries, Oz/NZ.
Let's not conveniently buy d PM's line dat we r being xenophophic. Let d gahmen re-examine its policies n correct those parts dat brought about dis septic environment.
IMHO, dis gahmen wld nvr allow d situation to deteriorate similarly into a xenophobic 3rd Reich or d citizens turned riotous to assert their rights. Please go find out, if u don’t oredi know, wat d Gurkhas r here for, besides d stated public reason dat d Gurkhas r here to guard key installations n work as prison guards. D Gurkhas contingent was increased fr a few hundred to present strength of >2,000.

[Way2GO]

atutor2001:

ksi:

...Also if I look at this teaching positively, I think there is a lot to learn from the Jews how to borrow cigarette instead.

Yes, the positive note is that Jews are shrewd businessman. However, perhaps they should not take too much advantage and be more reasonable in their deals. Mention Jews, and I think of George Soro - the man who crashed the pounds. Such stereotyping is bad. However, I would not have responded this way if his action is a one off case regarding Jews. I am sure there are also many Jews doing good. Ya, human tends to remember and highlight bad deeds and overlook good. However, there have to be a trend. Otherwise why is Jews being singled out internationally and not other races - it is cause and effect.

hahaha. ksi, u don't hv to go far to learn fr d Jews.
d Chinese r known as Jews of d East. :razz:

atutor2001, d Jews, just like d Chinese r variously shrewd businessppl, adapts well n prosper in any country they r in. They r despised n a convenient target for d have-nots.
3boys brought up d extreme case of Nazi Germany during d 3rd Riech, but d Jew's control of d economy was not peculiar to Germany, d Jews' economic clout was prevalent in d whole of Europe.
They learned a lesson fr WW2 - dat to keep dat economic edge, they also need political backing. u see dis influence in US politics.

[Way2GO]

verykiasu2010:

government must ALSO recognise and help solve the problem of work place discrimination by FT against SC, or put it another way, FT's preference for their fellow countrymen FT over the local SC.


an openly liberal MOM \"policy\" of allowing the influx will create resentment amongst SC, or its lack of policy in judging who is the deserving FT / PR to be allowed in. Granted, it is a fine balance between filling up the gaps due to lack of sufficient births and the need for real expat to bring in FDI and econ growth....and that is why we pay them super high to solve the problem

xenophobic trend cannot be tolerated and work place HR policies need to be sensitively balanced

urs is a more balanced view.
d gahmen shd re-examine its policies to understand why d groundswell is turning against these policies n take corrective measures.

[corneyAmber]

Way2GO:

atutor2001:

[quote=\"ksi\"]...Also if I look at this teaching positively, I think there is a lot to learn from the Jews how to borrow cigarette instead.

Yes, the positive note is that Jews are shrewd businessman. However, perhaps they should not take too much advantage and be more reasonable in their deals. Mention Jews, and I think of George Soro - the man who crashed the pounds. Such stereotyping is bad. However, I would not have responded this way if his action is a one off case regarding Jews. I am sure there are also many Jews doing good. Ya, human tends to remember and highlight bad deeds and overlook good. However, there have to be a trend. Otherwise why is Jews being singled out internationally and not other races - it is cause and effect.

hahaha. ksi, u don't hv to go far to learn fr d Jews.
d Chinese r known as Jews of d East. :razz:

atutor2001, d Jews, just like d Chinese r variously shrewd businessppl, adapts well n prosper in any country they r in. They r despised n a convenient target for d have-nots.
3boys brought up d extreme case of Nazi Germany during d 3rd Riech, but d Jew's control of d economy was not peculiar to Germany, d Jews' economic clout was prevalent in d whole of Europe.
They learned a lesson fr WW2 - dat to keep dat economic edge, they also need political backing. u see dis influence in US politics.[/quote]I know la way2go...since atutor2001's daddy use Jews for this teaching, I just look at the positive side of a teaching ma... Every teaching usually has more than one thing to learn from. You see another point is they adapt well which is something Singaporeans really can learn. Other than shrewness, they survive well even when odds are against them....i.e all the prejudices

[Lilac66]

Adapting well seems the way to go now… read the ST report about the unemployed grads in Korea. The usual route of going to renown Us now mean nothing there. 30% of PHD holders were jobless last year.


To survive in the future, we can see that academic achievement is not a sure route to success, many more attributes are needed. Looking at South Korea’s grads in such a dire state, should our govt increase the no. of U places?

[Way2GO]

Lilac66:

should our govt increase the no. of U places?

Aren't d gahmen planning to add another 2 uni?
More grads without availability of jobs will be another major problem to handle.