PM Asks "What kind of people do we want to be?"
-
Way2GO:
The next worse thing is graduates whining away....with big bombastic words and good GP-argument style being the only difference.Lilac66:
should our govt increase the no. of U places?
Aren't d gahmen planning to add another 2 uni?
More grads without availability of jobs will be another major problem to handle. -
Dora1:
You make very good sense cos now I can pay an arm and a leg for such skilled services these days, getting to be like Europe. Which is why I am busy playing with my child all the DIY things that we can do at home. I like to DIY at home and my child sometimes questions me why I behave like the man and woman in the house. I think uni certs in the future is good for putting up as posters on the wall.I think it is time for us to re-look at the endless academic pursuit of our society. The reason why all parents and students have the burning desire to get into Uni is that the pay discrepancies between graduates and non graduates are very wide, and gets much wider later on in life. Therefore, it is perfectly understandable for parents and students to fight to enter Uni.
We should look into paying non-graduate professions a decent salary, like some of the western countries. Their plumbers, tailors, carpenters, electrician, cooks etc all earn very decent pay. I believe it is also for this reason that schooling is a lot less stressful in their society because, if you are not academically inclined, its perfectly ok. You can choose a skill that you are interested in and good at, and earn a decent living. Of course they cannot be the top earners, but most are comfortably middle class if they have the right skills.
If you compare this with the Singapore model, our kids only have 1 way, that is the Uni way. That's why all the parents and kids are so stressed. If your kid happens to be academically inclined, well and good. If not, you still have to push them up. cos plumbers, electricians, etc in SG below to the lower income, so they have to struggle for life if they choose this profession.
Of course, there will be a lot of changes that we have to make as a society, e.g. super high fees charged by plumbers and electricians, so must pple must learn and DIY. It will obviously take a long time to change the thinking of the whole society. But I think it's high time we start exploring the other options instead of just increasing the % of Uni places to fulfill the desire for Uni education, not because of academic pursuit, but as a key to better paying jobs. -
The purpose of receiving tertiary education is for the training of minds in general and for professional degrees is necessary to enter a choice professions ie doctors, dentists,lawyers. accountants, engineers, pharmacists, scientists etc. Just ask if a law clerk can be called to the Bar without a recognised degree? Can a general hospital worker be a doctor without passing medical exam? Is it possible to to be a certifield accountant without being accountant trained? The list is long so one should not just generalise for the sake of convenience. Think for a moment can a technician with 30 yrs experience be eligible to register as a practising engineer as oppossed to someone with only few yrs of practical experience but duly qualified?
Why poly grads want to hve a shot at unis? It opens door otherwise not possible in terms of longterm career development. Take for example why business schools rank point is relatively high: The top grad from NUS/NTU/SMU commands a starting pay of $10,000/mth. Imagine if these chaps could make alot of money for the banks as investment bankers, private bankers, relationship managers or instituion traders, the monthly salary woukd enable them to book a unit at district 9/10/11 at a relatively young age. So our youth are pursuing a dream which is good. Rich is good, prosperity is better. Of course we would expect these high fliers to contribute more to our society. That way their souls prosper even as they continue to accumulate wealth. Is a dream many hve!
I believe when one writes, its impt to write from the heart not just out of popularity. -
Let me explain why I find ambiguous comments about discriminatory practices by foreigners of "a certain" nationality in "various" industries to be pernicious:
(1) It allows whoever has any chip on his/her shoulder to fill in the blanks anyway they want. Someone with ONE unpleasant experience with, say, a Chinese PR will fill in the blank with "from China". Another will fill it in with India, Philippines, Malaysia or what have you. Then they fill in whatever industry they happen to work in. So, now we have banking, IT and Raffles Place.
(2) Before you know it, the impression being conveyed by such posts becomes the IT, banking and numerous unspecified industries in Singapore are being taken over by FTs who discriminate against SCs. These incompetent FTs prefer other incompetent FTs of the same nationality (whatever that is) over more competent SCs. Not only that, this is now spreading all over our statutory boards with entire departments being taken over by "new citizens" and PRs.
(3) Amplify it online and we get anti-foreigner sentiment. Worse, we get people who feel justified in their anti-foreigner sentiment.
(4) All the while, none of these nebulous allegations can be investigated because they lack specificity. And because they cannot be investigated, individual transgressions cannot be rectified and the individuals taken to task. Which then opens the door to blaming the government - ‘they must condone it because they are not doing anything about it’. -
ksi:
The next worse thing is graduates whining away....with big bombastic words and good GP-argument style being the only difference.
This is what we need to change. The mindset that somehow a degree entitles one to a job making big bucks doing nothing but sitting behind a desk in an air-con office. I for one can see no good reason why bus drivers, trash collectors etc should not be able to earn more doing those hot, hard, dirty and dangerous jobs, than a barely useful fresh graduate. I see no good reason why these workers doing essential jobs that nobody else wants to do should be subsidizing the rest of us in our aircon offices by having to work at 3rd-world wage levels so as to \"keep our costs down\". -
Hmmm… maybe they should start degree courses for such jobs. Maybe then people will fight for these jobs.
-
pirate:
This will be my last point on this issue as I can't reveal more than I have. Suffice to say that proper evidence and feedback has been provided to the proper channels and I haven't seen anything concrete done to date. It would be very silly for me to post the full details of my experience on a public forum like KS parent. The intention of my post is not for anyone of you to do anything concrete, but to hold off slamming Singaporeans as xenophobic. Do be more understanding of the plight of some of your fellow singaporeans. Doesn't mean that if you have not seen it, it's not true.Let me explain why I find ambiguous comments about discriminatory practices by foreigners of \"a certain\" nationality in \"various\" industries to be pernicious:
(1) It allows whoever has any chip on his/her shoulder to fill in the blanks anyway they want. Someone with ONE unpleasant experience with, say, a Chinese PR will fill in the blank with \"from China\". Another will fill it in with India, Philippines, Malaysia or what have you. Then they fill in whatever industry they happen to work in. So, now we have banking, IT and Raffles Place.
(2) Before you know it, the impression being conveyed by such posts becomes the IT, banking and numerous unspecified industries in Singapore are being taken over by FTs who discriminate against SCs. These incompetent FTs prefer other incompetent FTs of the same nationality (whatever that is) over more competent SCs. Not only that, this is now spreading all over our statutory boards with entire departments being taken over by \"new citizens\" and PRs.
(3) Amplify it online and we get anti-foreigner sentiment. Worse, we get people who feel justified in their anti-foreigner sentiment.
(4) All the while, none of these nebulous allegations can be investigated because they lack specificity. And because they cannot be investigated, individual transgressions cannot be rectified and the individuals taken to task. Which then opens the door to blaming the government - 'they must condone it because they are not doing anything about it'. -
Edureach:
Hmm :scratchhead: ...is the point being missed? Firstly, tertiary education is not the ONLY way to train the mind. Those people who go to 社会大学 early due to a lack of choice actually get training of the minds too, if not better. People who did not make it to the U first time does not mean they cannot make it to the U with their forte later in life. I don't think Jackie Chan has a tertiary education but his years of training as an apprentice in a martial art school serves him well and if I remember correctly he has an honorary U-cert accorded to him for his contribution and achievement in the entertainment industry.The purpose of receiving tertiary education is for the training of minds in general and for professional degrees is necessary to enter a choice professions ie doctors, dentists,lawyers. accountants, engineers, pharmacists, scientists etc. Just ask if a law clerk can be called to the Bar without a recognised degree? Can a general hospital worker be a doctor without passing medical exam? Is it possible to to be a certifield accountant without being accountant trained? The list is long so one should not just generalise for the sake of convenience. Think for a moment can a technician with 30 yrs experience be eligible to register as a practising engineer as oppossed to someone with only few yrs of practical experience but duly qualified?
Why poly grads want to hve a shot at unis? It opens door otherwise not possible in terms of longterm career development. Take for example why business schools rank point is relatively high: The top grad from NUS/NTU/SMU commands a starting pay of $10,000/mth. Imagine if these chaps could make alot of money for the banks as investment bankers, private bankers, relationship managers or instituion traders, the monthly salary woukd enable them to book a unit at district 9/10/11 at a relatively young age. So our youth are pursuing a dream which is good. Rich is good, prosperity is better. Of course we would expect these high fliers to contribute more to our society. That way their souls prosper even as they continue to accumulate wealth. Is a dream many hve!
I believe when one writes, its impt to write from the heart not just out of popularity.
And no one is saying that all the professional positions need not go through the rigorous uni studies, it is a must but if the timing in entering U is off, it is ok.....there are ways to revisit. Secondly, for most people, going to uni is to make a living, under the basic needs of Maslow's hierarchy so the alternative to make a living with a good skill is not a bad route. The self-actualisation(pride) bit actually comes a lot later in life when one is established. Thirdly, a 30 years technician with a good brain can always go and do a degree to pursue the dream of being an engineer, what is stopping him if he is already making good money as a technician with good skills? He will also be equipped to do better in practical than the fresh graduate engineers.
How many top positions are there in academic pursuit? The top grad earning $10k per month, is it one person or 1000+ people?
To conclude, go to the U if one is academically inclined as the first shot because that is probably the route with least effort. If not, there are many roads leading to Rome, do not be fixated in one approach.
Have you watched Jiro's Dream of Sushi, I think that is awesomely inspiring....not one moment have I wondered which university is he from...it is immaterial. Jiro's university is the most powerful for himself from his heart. -
pirate:
:goodpost: This is exactly what I am trying to say.ksi:
The next worse thing is graduates whining away....with big bombastic words and good GP-argument style being the only difference.
This is what we need to change. The mindset that somehow a degree entitles one to a job making big bucks doing nothing but sitting behind a desk in an air-con office. I for one can see no good reason why bus drivers, trash collectors etc should not be able to earn more doing those hot, hard, dirty and dangerous jobs, than a barely useful fresh graduate. I see no good reason why these workers doing essential jobs that nobody else wants to do should be subsidizing the rest of us in our aircon offices by having to work at 3rd-world wage levels so as to \"keep our costs down\". -
Edureach:
Is it possible for, say 75% of the population to be uni grads and be in the jobs that you mentioned? Bankers, doctors, lawyers all earn a very high pay. But can a society function with everyone in these positions? Are all kids cut out to be one of the prestigious profession that you listed? How can a society function with no bus drivers, plumbers, electricians, cooks, tailors, technicians, mechanics? If plumbers, electricians and technicians can earn the same as the bankers, I am sure ITE would be hotter than NYPS!The purpose of receiving tertiary education is for the training of minds in general and for professional degrees is necessary to enter a choice professions ie doctors, dentists,lawyers. accountants, engineers, pharmacists, scientists etc. Just ask if a law clerk can be called to the Bar without a recognised degree? Can a general hospital worker be a doctor without passing medical exam? Is it possible to to be a certifield accountant without being accountant trained? The list is long so one should not just generalise for the sake of convenience. Think for a moment can a technician with 30 yrs experience be eligible to register as a practising engineer as oppossed to someone with only few yrs of practical experience but duly qualified?
Why poly grads want to hve a shot at unis? It opens door otherwise not possible in terms of longterm career development. Take for example why business schools rank point is relatively high: The top grad from NUS/NTU/SMU commands a starting pay of $10,000/mth. Imagine if these chaps could make alot of money for the banks as investment bankers, private bankers, relationship managers or instituion traders, the monthly salary woukd enable them to book a unit at district 9/10/11 at a relatively young age. So our youth are pursuing a dream which is good. Rich is good, prosperity is better. Of course we would expect these high fliers to contribute more to our society. That way their souls prosper even as they continue to accumulate wealth. Is a dream many hve!
I believe when one writes, its impt to write from the heart not just out of popularity.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login