Why screen kids in P1?

[Chenonceau]

FQW:

C'mon, in your last paragraph, you are clearly exaggerating.

Since this letter is out in ST forum, let's see what explanation MOE gives. For me, I really doubt the impact of this test to be as great as what you mentioned here. Surely IQ is not the single factor in success in life. We all know that. I'll shudder if MOE doesn't know that.

I don't think it is an exaggeration at all. The parallels are close. As an adult we see that the small little opportunities at childhood to be little things of small consequence. To a child, these opportunities to learn and develop are in effect as important as being given a job one wants.

Little opportunities over many years add up into big big gaps. No... I write carefully. There is no exaggeration.

Whether MOE knows or not, I can't tell but I will tell you this... the system ALREADY shows us a strong assumption that IQ is everything. Based on a P3 GEP test... kids go in and through train to A levels in RJC. A whopping 42% of RI (the nation's best boys' school) are GEPpers whilst GEPpers form only 1% of the total national cohort.

If you ask me, this shows me that MOE doesn't seem to know that IQ isn't everything.

[iRabbit]

Chenonceau:

FQW:

C'mon, in your last paragraph, you are clearly exaggerating.

Since this letter is out in ST forum, let's see what explanation MOE gives. For me, I really doubt the impact of this test to be as great as what you mentioned here. Surely IQ is not the single factor in success in life. We all know that. I'll shudder if MOE doesn't know that.

I don't think it is an exaggeration at all. The parallels are close. As an adult we see that the small little opportunities at childhood to be little things of small consequence. To a child, these opportunities to learn and develop are in effect as important as being given a job one wants.

Little opportunities over many years add up into big big gaps. No... I write carefully. There is no exaggeration.

Whether MOE knows or not, I can't tell but I will tell you this... the system ALREADY shows us a strong assumption that IQ is everything. Based on a P3 GEP test... kids go in and through train to A levels in RJC. A whopping 42% of RI (the nation's best boys' school) are GEPpers whilst GEPpers form only 1% of the total national cohort.

If you ask me, this shows me that MOE doesn't seem to know that IQ isn't everything.

understand what you mean. Malcolm glad well wrote a book describing what you just mentioned. I guess I'm less cynical about this bcos I can't believe that any major decision will be made based on this test alone. It seems so illogical to do so, esp. at P1.

It'll be interesting to understand how the data collected is used to help the weaker/stronger ones. Are decisions being made based on this test alone? Hopefully not. Ok lor, will look out for MOE's reply in ST forum.

[beanbear]

I think these tests are not standardized across all schools. 3 of my kids didn’t go through these tests and they are from 3 different schools. DD’s school does a reading assessment conducted by an external vendor along with the school’s LSP and those children who are not reading at a level that’s needed at P1 are asked to attend extra classes during the school holidays before P1 to help them catch up and the parents are consulted one-on-one to let them know what’s going on. The reading assessment is also made known to all parents. But I do know of friends whose kids were tested and streamed according to high ability classes & low ability classes and one of my friend’s kid was placed in the "last" class and it happened to be named Pri 1 L and her child within the first days of school had other kids teasing the children there and calling them "Losers". My friend was obviously upset but really felt there was nothing she could do. By the way this is a well-known school in the West.


Testing at age 7 for high or low ability makes many assumptions about a child’s development at age 7. Even without a professional degree, my parental instincts tell me it’s not right to categorise children so early. This seems to contradict PM Lee’s call to let children play in pre-school. Honestly, will you let child play if you know that your child will be categorised in this way at P1? Will you let your child be labelled as being in the "last" class at P1?

I think there are misalignments in what people at MOE HQ regards as important and what is actually executed at the ground level. There is autonomy at the school level and Principals with their HODs will do what they see fit to ensure success (By their definition of success). Schools can always claim they have good intent but does that mean children should live with the unintended bad consequences?

[beanbear]

AceTutors123:

PhoBIA:

There is no need for a test to give children an \"average\" or \"laggard\" label. A successful educator should not label any children and give all children equal chance. Some children are late boomers. If labelled too early, it destroys their chance to blossom totally.....

Exactly PhoBIA, the last thing we need is for educators to hold subconscious biasedness against some children. I would think that giving teachers access to IQ scores of the children may disadvantage some of the children, and it would skew that teacher's perception that every kid in the class is smart and has equal chances in learning more and doing well.

Once you categorize children, you already create the Pygmalion effect. I dunno why when there are already famous experiments done to show that there are terrible consequences, yet in Singapore, we continue to perpetuate these sort of things.

[metz]

alng:

From ST Forum on 7 Sep 2012. My P1 ds also confirmed that he has done this IQ test recently.



ON JULY 30, my son, who is in Primary 1, came home from school to say that an external teacher had given his class a test that consisted of patterns. This teacher had not mentioned the word \"test\" or \"IQ\" and the pupils were given 30 minutes to fill their answer sheets.

I did an online search of IQ tests and found one where my son was able to recognise 46 out of the 60 questions. Based on this, I deduced that the test given was the Raven's Standard Progressive Matrices test.


David Chin

My daughter just affirmed that she did this test in school. She recognised the questions as those on the website too.

[SAHM_TAN]

I’ve forgotten abt this test till I chanced upon this thread. My dd1 took it on last wk of Jul. I had wanted to ask her school but with one thing or another, I forgotten.


There are 60 qns, section A-E, kids must complete within 30 mins.

It’s not for the purpose of LSP because those tests were done in the early wks of term 1.

By right, should ask parents’ consent, just like parents’ consent are sought for GEP testing. Because it’s not a regular school test.

My view is that since all P1 kids were tested and extra manpower were sent to the schools to administer the test, there must be some outcome and decision based on the results will be made affecting if not dd1 then her siblings.

[alng]

I am upset that MOE and the schools are so secretive about this IQ test. We all know about the usual assessment tests (for academic, banding purpose and for LSP) and even those UNSW and Maths Olympiad tests. Whether the schools obtain the parents' approvals of these tests on an individual test basis is not an issue at all. The schools never hide those tests from the parents.


Coming back to this IQ test. My P6 dd said that she had never taken such a test at P1 so it must be a recent initiative. Whether this test is administered at school level or MOE level, all it takes is for the parents of current P1 students to verify and confirm with their kids.

After reading the letter in ST forum, dh and I went to http://www.raventest.net/ and showed a sample test to our ds. He looked at the questions and told us that he had done those questions in school in August recently. He tried to describe the test to us. He said that there were different versions, A, B, C and D. He did till C and some of his classmates went on to do D. Something like that.

Why must the schools be so secretive? The young kids do not even know what tests they are taking, let alone coming home to tell the parents. If I were to ask my ds if he has taken an IQ test in school, he probably will not know what an IQ test is.

I hope MOE will give the parents a reply soon. I think I should also quote the ST forum letter and write an email to the school principal since my ds said that he had done such a test too.

[metz]

Managed to find out more about the ‘test’ from my daughter. True enough, there are different sections A - E. Furthermore, she had to shade the answers on an answer sheet. According to her, the question booklet looks green and rather ‘old’. So, this may not be a new initiative?

[SAHM_TAN]

Jialat liao, if shade on separate answer sheet, dd1 sure made careless mistakes, then affect own result and national result liao :rotflmao: :evil:


She's the type who will even copy wrongly hor.

[metz]

SAHM_TAN:

Jialat liao, if shade on separate answer sheet, sure careless mistakes, then affect own result and national result liao :rotflmao: :evil:

Sigh, she even drew a simplified version of the answer sheet to explain to me. Top - to fill in name, school, date. Rest of the paper taken up by sections A - D on the same page while Section E is at the back. Most questions have 6 circles, and few have 8 circles. I was :scared: But she was nonchalant about it and said she 'checked' the answers...