MP echoes calls for PSLE to be scrapped
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I have been pondering about this issue for some time. At one stage, I was thinking each school to have an entrance test, so which ever school you aim for, you just go take that entrance test. This is a chance for schools to find their niche and what direction they want to step forth for the next generation, and \"market\" it in a way that will help them attract the students.
The down side of this is that at the end of the day, students and parents will need to do more research in which school to opt for, and this may also indirectly put pressure on the schools in non-academic aspects of schooling, like what the tertiary institutions are doing now, using teaching staff to do admission and marketing work rather than teaching.
I have yet to come up with my own answer.
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Chenonceau:
Hmmmm... I find this argument strange to be coming from Chenonceau, who thinks children should not be graded and exams are hindrance to real learning. Mind clarifying, Chen?
Hmmmm... not keen on it still. 4 decades ago, France took a similar step and opened university admissions to anyone with a pass at their equivalent of 'A' levels. This cheapened their universities so much that the best students didn't go there anymore. The best students spent an EXTRA 2 years to prepare for entry to the Grandes Écoles. The best Grandes Écoles clearly had the toughest exams... and preparing for these exams were a long hard slog.concern2:
See, you just want to know got fever or no fever, right? Then a simple test of pass and fail can do the job. However, like I said, who are the students to be given a place in which school is the difficult part. PSLE had never been such a big issue until recent years, when everyone puts a label on everything. And if it has an adverse effect in the overall objective, then it is time to change. Change isn't a bad thing, although it calls for some risk-taking and some major re-planning. I don't foresee changes could be made within the next 5 years, but I am glad everyone is re-looking the possibilities.
How hard? How tough? How competitive? A friend of mine was asked to draw a circle on the white board. He was asked to draw and then redraw a few times. He drew a beautiful circle. Then his Teacher said \"That is your grade for today's test.\"
RI, ACS, NJC blah blah blah... they'll just develop their OWN entrance exams, which is still PSLE in disguise. France is much larger than we are. We don't have the numbers to justify that each secondary school sets its own PSLE equivalent. We currently have rather high quality of testing at PSLE level... If each school conducts entrance exams in its own back yard, we will all regress in the same way textbooks and curriculum material regressed.
We are one country with little enough resources. Why duplicate effort over a distance of 600sqkm only? I agree with 3boys (ok... need to buy 4D again) that we spend enough on education. We do not, however, use these resources efficiently. For example, writing curriculum that all can share to teach from wastes less of Teacher time overall that making every teacher write his/her own curriculum.
If they abolish PSLE, I will throw a few hundred thousand into a tuition centre. Sure make money one because every one will be scrambling to prepare for RI's entrance exams. RI will die from the workload of testing everyone.
PSLE cannot be abolished UNTIL we have succeeded at making every school a good school. That comes first or else for sure RI will start its own entrance exam. It won't trust the quality of testing from every Tom Dick Harry school. -
concern2:
Hello Otah! How do you know majority think should be scrapped? It doesn't sound like it to me based on this thread alone.Otah:
In Conclusion,
PSLE cannot be scrapped for the majority !
Think you misunderstood.... She meant majority kids still needs PSLE for placement to sec school so cannot be scrapped, not majority thinks PSLE should be scrapped. Like you, she won't know that unless a national survey is taken.. kekeke.
And my majority wins mean the same as hers. If majority of kids need this PSLE to be placed in sec school, then just let all take the same exam lor.... -
Chenonceau:
Hmmmm... not keen on it still. 4 decades ago, France took a similar step and opened university admissions to anyone with a pass at their equivalent of 'A' levels. This cheapened their universities so much that the best students didn't go there anymore. The best students spent an EXTRA 2 years to prepare for entry to the Grandes Écoles. The best Grandes Écoles clearly had the toughest exams... and preparing for these exams were a long hard slog.concern2:
See, you just want to know got fever or no fever, right? Then a simple test of pass and fail can do the job. However, like I said, who are the students to be given a place in which school is the difficult part. PSLE had never been such a big issue until recent years, when everyone puts a label on everything. And if it has an adverse effect in the overall objective, then it is time to change. Change isn't a bad thing, although it calls for some risk-taking and some major re-planning. I don't foresee changes could be made within the next 5 years, but I am glad everyone is re-looking the possibilities.
How hard? How tough? How competitive? A friend of mine was asked to draw a circle on the white board. He was asked to draw and then redraw a few times. He drew a beautiful circle. Then his Teacher said \"That is your grade for today's test.\"
RI, ACS, NJC blah blah blah... they'll just develop their OWN entrance exams, which is still PSLE in disguise. France is much larger than we are. We don't have the numbers to justify that each secondary school sets its own PSLE equivalent. We currently have rather high quality of testing at PSLE level... If each school conducts entrance exams in its own back yard, we will all regress in the same way textbooks and curriculum material regressed.
We are one country with little enough resources. Why duplicate effort over a distance of 600sqkm only? I agree with 3boys (ok... need to buy 4D again) that we spend enough on education. We do not, however, use these resources efficiently. For example, writing curriculum that all can share to teach from wastes less of Teacher time overall that making every teacher write his/her own curriculum.
If they abolish PSLE, I will throw a few hundred thousand into a tuition centre. Sure make money one because every one will be scrambling to prepare for RI's entrance exams. RI will die from the workload of testing everyone.
PSLE cannot be abolished UNTIL we have succeeded at making every school a good school. That comes first or else for sure RI will start its own entrance exam. It won't trust the quality of testing from every Tom Dick Harry school.
My feelings too. Yes , imagine the flood of students scrambling to take the entrance exams at the top few schools, then the lesser known ones? Shake legs , while waiting for \"customers\" to come? And for those that don't make it at these schools? Take another one at the next best schools? So it all comes to a full circle.. we need an entrance exam. At the moment ,my take is that PSLE is still the best way to gauge.
Actually, I feel that in recent years, with the introduction of DSA, some pressure has been taken off the need to rely on this national exam. P6 students can use their other talents besides academic achievements to get into their dream schools. Ask those who already have CO , enviable position to be in. :boogie: -
concern2:
Like that poor kids have to sit for many mini PSLE tests/exams, at least 3-6 depending on how many they can apply to...I think no time to go holiday in Nov/Dec liao...unlike now...after early Oct, Oct 3 I think....they are free!!!!! I think more stressful and more time consuming for the kids.I have been pondering about this issue for some time. At one stage, I was thinking each school to have an entrance test, so which ever school you aim for, you just go take that entrance test. This is a chance for schools to find their niche and what direction they want to step forth for the next generation, and \"market\" it in a way that will help them attract the students.
The down side of this is that at the end of the day, students and parents will need to do more research in which school to opt for, and this may also indirectly put pressure on the schools in non-academic aspects of schooling, like what the tertiary institutions are doing now, using teaching staff to do admission and marketing work rather than teaching.
I have yet to come up with my own answer. -
concern2:
Hmmmm... I find this argument strange to be coming from Chenonceau, who thinks children should not be graded and exams are hindrance to real learning. Mind clarifying, Chen?
:snuggles: It is interesting how, even in a forum, where words are black on white screen. People have a tendancy to project things on another that the other has never thought... let alone said. It is never my habit to be ALL or NOTHING.
For me, it is about balance. I have never said all testing or grading is bad. I have never said exams are ALWAYS a hindrance to learning. I have said however that our systems tests TOO MUCH... TOO OFTEN... TOO FAST. In testing so much, schools necessarily have less time to teach, and therefore kids have less time to learn.
There are instances where testing is necessary and grading is necessary. There are instances when after learning enough you NEED to test. It's about balance. I made noise for a few reasons...
(1) PSLE tests secondary level stuff (MOE promises to test reasonably)
(2) Teachers have no time and few resources to teach with (addressed by Stellar and a national teacher database of resources still being discussed)
(3) Classes are too large for teachers to teach effectively (not yet addresses)
(4) Schools compete with each other so much that they refuse to share (addressed by the removal of awards and banding)
(5) Teachers compete with each other so much that they also don't share their best stuff (addressed by the revamp of the teacher appraisal system)
I have nothing else to tell MOE. I have no more criticism of MOE. MOE did NOT do everything the way I told them to. They took my feedback and thought up solutions that I thought were BETTER. I wanted better textbooks, MOE pushed for Stellar. I'm good with that. I didn't like the inter school cut throat competition. MOE took away banding. I never thought of taking away banding. But once I thought about it I recognised it to be a good solution to unhealthy interschool competition.
Clearly, our MOE has gone some way in developing intelligent solutions. I recognise that they know the system better than I do and I can see the sense in the solutions they have provided in the last week or so. It occurs to me that we are not dealing with spineless people in MOE. HSK was brave enough to STILL say that parents have a part to play... and he gave UNREASONABLE parents a nice gentle scolding. I am fine with that. Parents DO have a part to play. Teachers DO deserve to be protected from parents from hell. This is not feedback I gave to MOE. This is stuff MOE thought up and thought through and thought important.
I am a reasonable person and just because MOE didn't do EXACTLY what I wanted doesn't mean I should be unhappy. I really am already very happy.
Let's give our MOE some space to make every school a good school... and THEN talk about taking away PSLE. -
Lilac66:
dejavu? Reminds me of P1 registration!!! :rotflmao:
My feelings too. Yes , imagine the flood of students scrambling to take the entrance exams at the top few schools, then the lesser known ones? Shake legs , while waiting for \"customers\" to come? -
ksi:
:hi5: Precisely!
dejavu? Reminds me of P1 registration!!! :rotflmao:Lilac66:
My feelings too. Yes , imagine the flood of students scrambling to take the entrance exams at the top few schools, then the lesser known ones? Shake legs , while waiting for \"customers\" to come? -
Lilac66:
:hi5: Precisely![/quote]Have to agree that as I put my words out in front of me, it sort of rings a bell
dejavu? Reminds me of P1 registration!!! :rotflmao:ksi:
[quote=\"Lilac66\"]
My feelings too. Yes , imagine the flood of students scrambling to take the entrance exams at the top few schools, then the lesser known ones? Shake legs , while waiting for \"customers\" to come?
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Chenonceau:
Thanks for clarifying Chen, you write more posts than I manage to read, so I guess that's how I developing the misunderstanding.concern2:
Hmmmm... I find this argument strange to be coming from Chenonceau, who thinks children should not be graded and exams are hindrance to real learning. Mind clarifying, Chen?
:snuggles: It is interesting how, even in a forum, where words are black on white screen. People have a tendancy to project things on another that the other has never thought... let alone said. It is never my habit to be ALL or NOTHING.
For me, it is about balance. I have never said all testing or grading is bad. I have never said exams are ALWAYS a hindrance to learning. I have said however that our systems tests TOO MUCH... TOO OFTEN... TOO FAST. In testing so much, schools necessarily have less time to teach, and therefore kids have less time to learn.
There are instances where testing is necessary and grading is necessary. There are instances when after learning enough you NEED to test. It's about balance.
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