MP echoes calls for PSLE to be scrapped

[corneyAmber]

concern2:

I have been pondering about this issue for some time. At one stage, I was thinking each school to have an entrance test, so which ever school you aim for, you just go take that entrance test. This is a chance for schools to find their niche and what direction they want to step forth for the next generation, and \"market\" it in a way that will help them attract the students.


The down side of this is that at the end of the day, students and parents will need to do more research in which school to opt for, and this may also indirectly put pressure on the schools in non-academic aspects of schooling, like what the tertiary institutions are doing now, using teaching staff to do admission and marketing work rather than teaching.

I have yet to come up with my own answer.

Like that poor kids have to sit for many mini PSLE tests/exams, at least 3-6 depending on how many they can apply to...I think no time to go holiday in Nov/Dec liao...unlike now...after early Oct, Oct 3 I think....they are free!!!!! I think more stressful and more time consuming for the kids.

[Chenonceau]

concern2:

Hmmmm... I find this argument strange to be coming from Chenonceau, who thinks children should not be graded and exams are hindrance to real learning. Mind clarifying, Chen?

:snuggles: It is interesting how, even in a forum, where words are black on white screen. People have a tendancy to project things on another that the other has never thought... let alone said. It is never my habit to be ALL or NOTHING.

For me, it is about balance. I have never said all testing or grading is bad. I have never said exams are ALWAYS a hindrance to learning. I have said however that our systems tests TOO MUCH... TOO OFTEN... TOO FAST. In testing so much, schools necessarily have less time to teach, and therefore kids have less time to learn.

There are instances where testing is necessary and grading is necessary. There are instances when after learning enough you NEED to test. It's about balance. I made noise for a few reasons...

(1) PSLE tests secondary level stuff (MOE promises to test reasonably)

(2) Teachers have no time and few resources to teach with (addressed by Stellar and a national teacher database of resources still being discussed)

(3) Classes are too large for teachers to teach effectively (not yet addresses)

(4) Schools compete with each other so much that they refuse to share (addressed by the removal of awards and banding)

(5) Teachers compete with each other so much that they also don't share their best stuff (addressed by the revamp of the teacher appraisal system)

I have nothing else to tell MOE. I have no more criticism of MOE. MOE did NOT do everything the way I told them to. They took my feedback and thought up solutions that I thought were BETTER. I wanted better textbooks, MOE pushed for Stellar. I'm good with that. I didn't like the inter school cut throat competition. MOE took away banding. I never thought of taking away banding. But once I thought about it I recognised it to be a good solution to unhealthy interschool competition.

Clearly, our MOE has gone some way in developing intelligent solutions. I recognise that they know the system better than I do and I can see the sense in the solutions they have provided in the last week or so. It occurs to me that we are not dealing with spineless people in MOE. HSK was brave enough to STILL say that parents have a part to play... and he gave UNREASONABLE parents a nice gentle scolding. I am fine with that. Parents DO have a part to play. Teachers DO deserve to be protected from parents from hell. This is not feedback I gave to MOE. This is stuff MOE thought up and thought through and thought important.

I am a reasonable person and just because MOE didn't do EXACTLY what I wanted doesn't mean I should be unhappy. I really am already very happy.

Let's give our MOE some space to make every school a good school... and THEN talk about taking away PSLE.

[corneyAmber]

Lilac66:

My feelings too. Yes , imagine the flood of students scrambling to take the entrance exams at the top few schools, then the lesser known ones? Shake legs , while waiting for \"customers\" to come?

dejavu? Reminds me of P1 registration!!! :rotflmao:

[Lilac66]

ksi:

Lilac66:

My feelings too. Yes , imagine the flood of students scrambling to take the entrance exams at the top few schools, then the lesser known ones? Shake legs , while waiting for \"customers\" to come?

dejavu? Reminds me of P1 registration!!! :rotflmao:

:hi5: Precisely!

[concern2]

Lilac66:

ksi:

[quote=\"Lilac66\"]


My feelings too. Yes , imagine the flood of students scrambling to take the entrance exams at the top few schools, then the lesser known ones? Shake legs , while waiting for \"customers\" to come?

dejavu? Reminds me of P1 registration!!! :rotflmao:

:hi5: Precisely![/quote]Have to agree that as I put my words out in front of me, it sort of rings a bell

[concern2]

Chenonceau:

concern2:

Hmmmm... I find this argument strange to be coming from Chenonceau, who thinks children should not be graded and exams are hindrance to real learning. Mind clarifying, Chen?

:snuggles: It is interesting how, even in a forum, where words are black on white screen. People have a tendancy to project things on another that the other has never thought... let alone said. It is never my habit to be ALL or NOTHING.

For me, it is about balance. I have never said all testing or grading is bad. I have never said exams are ALWAYS a hindrance to learning. I have said however that our systems tests TOO MUCH... TOO OFTEN... TOO FAST. In testing so much, schools necessarily have less time to teach, and therefore kids have less time to learn.

There are instances where testing is necessary and grading is necessary. There are instances when after learning enough you NEED to test. It's about balance.

Thanks for clarifying Chen, you write more posts than I manage to read, so I guess that's how I developing the misunderstanding.

[cherryc]

Chenonceau:

concern2:

Hmmmm... I find this argument strange to be coming from Chenonceau, who thinks children should not be graded and exams are hindrance to real learning. Mind clarifying, Chen?

:snuggles: It is interesting how, even in a forum, where words are black on white screen. People have a tendancy to project things on another that the other has never thought... let alone said. It is never my habit to be ALL or NOTHING.

For me, it is about balance. I have never said all testing or grading is bad. I have never said exams are ALWAYS a hindrance to learning. I have said however that our systems tests TOO MUCH... TOO OFTEN... TOO FAST. In testing so much, schools necessarily have less time to teach, and therefore kids have less time to learn.

There are instances where testing is necessary and grading is necessary. There are instances when after learning enough you NEED to test. It's about balance. I made noise for a few reasons...

(1) PSLE tests secondary level stuff (MOE promises to test reasonably)

(2) Teachers have no time and few resources to teach with (addressed by Stellar and a national teacher database of resources still being discussed)

(3) Classes are too large for teachers to teach effectively (not yet addresses)

(4) Schools compete with each other so much that they refuse to share (addressed by the removal of awards and banding)

(5) Teachers compete with each other so much that they also don't share their best stuff (addressed by the revamp of the teacher appraisal system)

I have nothing else to tell MOE. I have no more criticism of MOE.

Totally agree with Chen. The majority of us took PSLE before and we all turn out pretty balanced and unscathed. The whole 6 years of primary school life is getting very daunting for many students and parents now and scrapping PSLE may turn out to be more confusing for some groups of students and parents. I do hope the excessive stress (esply parental stress) , tuitions and parental involvements in our current education system can be alleviated.

I hope the Principals being the stewards of the schools can work closely with MOE to chart the proper course of actions for the schools and for the students (and not for any unnecessary KPIs). Until we know the true constraints of the education system, be it due to teachers, curriculum or resources, we can't simply say scrap this and that and hoping all the problems will be solved. I hope to hear from the teachers and principals given the resources available, what is the best course of action. I also hope all kinds of voices from different backgrounds will be heard.

On a separate note, a P6 teacher commented that DSA took up a lot of time preparing for those students needed to go for DSA. She rather uses the time to revise with all the weaker kids. Again, we never see the full picture of every option.

[cherryc]

slmkhoo:

I don't think PSLE will go, or at least, something similar will take its place, whatever it's called and however it's structured. I just want to say that I feel that every child should start from the same starting line at every major milestone - no special exemptions (except for disabilities), no 'through-train' or automatic qualifications that are not open to every other child. It is because of the perceived benefits of getting into some special track, be it GEP, IP or whatever, that causes a lot of the competition and stress. Early segregation into different tracks also disadvantages late developers and those from less privileged backgrounds. I personally would like to see no streaming until grade 8 (Sec 2), but given Singapore's historical 6-4-2 education system, we may be stuck with a grade 6 test.

:goodpost:

[verykiasu2010]

Mychildren:

If they start to change & implement something just because of some complains, I think that's no good. They should know why & what should be change.


Short term goals is not enough, need to c further down the road. MOE should sit down & review what the future generation should be heading to & plan accordingly. After implementing & changing, they can only c the results & outcome in another 20 or 30 years time.

I'm not from MOE & I understand its easier to say than to have it done.

my children are sensible

[verykiasu2010]

concern2:

ksi:

[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]Dumb.


It's like. I have a fever. I don't like having a fever. So ok! Let's break the thermometer!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_jUBxYaDjzk/Tr1LDqUCasI/AAAAAAAAHC8/b6qY09dNM54/s1600/clap-animated-animation-clap-smiley-emoticon-000340-large.gif\">

Interesting analogy, Chen. Fever means a sign that something is wrong with the body, and needs fixing. PSLE is the thing that measures, hence is like the thermometer which one uses to see whether one does have fever or no fever, so should not be discarded.

I personally feel that normal tests can be used to perform this. The only difficult part that requires more brainstorming would be in distributing the students into the various secondary schools. If the aim is that all schools are/be good schools, then this may be the right direction to take. The question that remains is how.

I am all for scraping :rahrah: :rahrah: :rahrah: :rahrah:
:boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :dancing: :imcool: :imcool: :imcool:[/quote]where got something wrong with body ? raised temp means time to fulfill national duty to increase TFR :siam: