MP echoes calls for PSLE to be scrapped
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concern2:
In other words, Singapore will never be democratic, am I right? concern2?
To understand, one needs to look at what is 精英政治:beanbear:
So what I would ask is for MOE to review what's really the purpose of PSLE? Is it healthy to have the best of the best students for the Top 10 schools to be bundled up together? Is it not elitist to have schools where there are no \"slower\" students? Why? Why must top students only be among themselves? How do we teach these students to have compassion for \"slower\" people? How else do they learn to be more understanding of people who are less academic than they are, who have different abilities & intelligences? Must we already have such segregation at Secondary level? That's what the PSLE is supporting. That's what I have issues with.
精英政治或專家政治的内核是：在任何人类组织中，总是分为两个部分，统治阶级和被统治阶级，统治阶级人数很少，属于精英，组织中的大多数是被统治阶级。无论组织开始时如何民主，最终会形成寡头统治，即寡头统治铁律。
新加坡可以算是一个典型的精英政治国家，其领导人对此也不讳言。一些人批评它的教育制度就是一个选拔精英的制度（学生从小学四年级开始就被按学术能力分流），而且也是为精英所设计的制度（例如只有15%的学生能够进入政府资助的当地大学，其余大多数人只能进入理工学院）；只有那些获得人民行动党邀请的精英才可能进入政府部门担任领导人，普通平民很难通过其他民主途径从政等。
(source: http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%B2%BE%E8%8B%B1%E6%94%BF%E6%B2%BB) -
Mychildren:
Sorry for my ignorance, but what is \"IMH\"?My goodness, saw the word IMH here.
To all, take it easy, there are more to come in the future.
Just let u & your child do their best for now but not to the extreme of getting :siao: .
I'll remind myself when its my turn. :sick: -
ponyo:
T-score compares the students against each other, hence adding to all the stress (KS parents feel their kids must be ahead of bell-curve etc) and really, do we need all that? If PSLE is to test how well the student has mastered the subject matter, then it should not matter what the other students fare but how each fare against the benchmark for that subject.
Is it?
Personally, T-score sole purpose is for S1 placement.
Coz once u DSA to even the 'TOPPEST' school and get 200 or 201, u still get into the school. The rest has to fight for a spot based on T-score. -
ruohoo97:
fyi...IMH = Institute of Mental HealthHospital
Sorry for my ignorance, but what is \"IMH\"?Mychildren:
My goodness, saw the word IMH here.
To all, take it easy, there are more to come in the future.
Just let u & your child do their best for now but not to the extreme of getting :siao: .
I'll remind myself when its my turn. :sick: -
ruohoo97:
In other words, Singapore will never be democratic, am I right? concern2?[/quote]I think this is talking about meritocracy. We can still be democratic and meritocratic at the same time.
To understand, one needs to look at what is 精英政治:concern2:
[quote=\"beanbear\"]
So what I would ask is for MOE to review what's really the purpose of PSLE? Is it healthy to have the best of the best students for the Top 10 schools to be bundled up together? Is it not elitist to have schools where there are no \"slower\" students? Why? Why must top students only be among themselves? How do we teach these students to have compassion for \"slower\" people? How else do they learn to be more understanding of people who are less academic than they are, who have different abilities & intelligences? Must we already have such segregation at Secondary level? That's what the PSLE is supporting. That's what I have issues with.
精英政治或專家政治的内核是：在任何人类组织中，总是分为两个部分，统治阶级和被统治阶级，统治阶级人数很少，属于精英，组织中的大多数是被统治阶级。无论组织开始时如何民主，最终会形成寡头统治，即寡头统治铁律。
新加坡可以算是一个典型的精英政治国家，其领导人对此也不讳言。一些人批评它的教育制度就是一个选拔精英的制度（学生从小学四年级开始就被按学术能力分流），而且也是为精英所设计的制度（例如只有15%的学生能够进入政府资助的当地大学，其余大多数人只能进入理工学院）；只有那些获得人民行动党邀请的精英才可能进入政府部门担任领导人，普通平民很难通过其他民主途径从政等。
(source: http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%B2%BE%E8%8B%B1%E6%94%BF%E6%B2%BB) -
Nebbermind:
ponyo:
T-score compares the students against each other, hence adding to all the stress (KS parents feel their kids must be ahead of bell-curve etc) and really, do we need all that? If PSLE is to test how well the student has mastered the subject matter, then it should not matter what the other students fare but how each fare against the benchmark for that subject.
Is it?
Personally, T-score sole purpose is for S1 placement.
Coz once u DSA to even the 'TOPPEST' school and get 200 or 201, u still get into the school. The rest has to fight for a spot based on T-score.
Not too sure if I got your point but I would presume the % of the cohort do not qualify for DSA+those who prefer not to DSA will have to go through S1 placement and hence use the T-score. :scratchhead:
My whole point about T-score is that it creates an unhealthy obsession over beating the competition to stay ahead of bell curve. Maybe I'm a little off-topic here :slapshead: -
ponyo:
Why need to stress over DSA and IP? I have already explained earlier we do not have to subscribe to every scheme. There are many ways to get to the end goal depending on developmental milestones. Also, what the school is doing is simulating the real world outside, yet with a fair amount of control as they are still kids. We should not be overly protective. In the real world outside, everyday is an exam, everyday performance is based on relative benchmarks. So I would prefer the children to understand that and see it as an integral part of life. Simulating a cosy and artificial environment will only cause them to falter at work in future.
How true! I totally agree with the above. In fact, I am very happy that MOE is actively listening to the feedbacks from parents, schools and taking actions about it. It is a different MOE now than the past machinery...Chenonceau:
...But right now... we're not there yet. So I understand why parents still feel stressed about DSA and IP and all that. I do. ...
Regarding PSLE scrapping, it needs further study although personally I am not at all for it. Not that I am a sucker (oops, excuse the language) for exams but it's because I feel the real problem is not with PSLE but other things such as T-score and over-testing. T-score compares the students against each other, hence adding to all the stress (KS parents feel their kids must be ahead of bell-curve etc) and really, do we need all that? If PSLE is to test how well the student has mastered the subject matter, then it should not matter what the other students fare but how each fare against the benchmark for that subject. No? Maybe, we can replace the current scoring with a raw score grading e.g GPA grading. THat way, we can still know how well the child/student knows/understand the subject. Based on this score, parents can choose the best schools for the children. Like what Mawar mentioned, no every parent wants to send their kids to the best school academically but I am sure ALL parents want to send their kids to the school that is best suited for their kids.
Just my teeny weeny half a cent worth... -
ksi:
The problem is that when people talk about DSA/IP, many are just talking about the handful of TOPPEST schools. If not DSA, then gotta get 260ish or so! Of course stressed lah!!
Why need to stress over DSA and IP?
I recently look at the COP of schools. Many 240ish are pretty good schools too. Some of them are SAP schools which during my time, only the top 8~10% gets to apply. Did they lose their glam-ness? -
ksi:
Benchmarks are a very recent invention. There used to exist a real world for thousands of years WITHOUT benchmarks. Benchmarks are a recent invention consistent with a manufacturing economy. They are not exactly suited to the thinking/knowledge creation economy. When you create, there ARE no existing benchmarks.
Why need to stress over DSA and IP? I have already explained earlier we do not have to subscribe to every scheme. There are many ways to get to the end goal depending on developmental milestones. Also, what the school is doing is simulating the real world outside, yet with a fair amount of control as they are still kids. We should not be overly protective. In the real world outside, everyday is an exam, everyday performance is based on relative benchmarks. So I would prefer the children to understand that and see it as an integral part of life. Simulating a cosy and artificial environment will only cause them to falter at work in future.
As long as NOT every school is a good school, parents will stress... and by denying and refusing to understand their stress (or even by exhorting them not to stress), we will just drive things underground and the bitterness will come out in the next GE. Telling people not to stress won't help them stress less unless there are substantive systemic changes like those that have already been announced.
This said though... I won't write more on this. Got other things I wanna do now that MOE is on the move. -
Nebbermind:
This is what I do not understand. If T-score is not good enough to get into the top schools, why want to enter to suffer? I am not a fan of DSA unless my child is able. As for 240ish school, what is so bad? If a child thrives in these schools and can perform well, is it not good for self-esteem which is more and more critical in sec level? I think as parents we should not give them the feeling that they are worser in those schools because they ARE NOT! Eventually they all still end up in the same place such as NTU or NUS for the majority who are academically inclined....so? :?
The problem is that when people talk about DSA/IP, many are just talking about the handful of TOPPEST schools. If not DSA, then gotta get 260ish or so! Of course stressed lah!!ksi:
Why need to stress over DSA and IP?
I recently look at the COP of schools. Many 240ish are pretty good schools too. Some of them are SAP schools which during my time, only the top 8~10% gets to apply. Did they lose their glam-ness?
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