MOE to stop publishing names of top students?
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CayennePepper:
Well frankly the issues surrounding the 'situation' is multifaceted and may contain some if not all of the above issues you have mentioned and the full picture may be too sensitive to be discussed here. You can work backward from why the top scorers (PSLE or O/A level) cannot be named or why MP asking to remove DSA for GEP to form an opinion on the 'situation'.
Humour me, please. Not as enlightened as the rest of you.sinoboy:
Agree. So removing GEP, DSA for GEP and IP program etc may be key to remedy the situation. Perhaps they can also look into modifying the requirement for '新学生' joining the primary education system to be admitted at a lower academic level so that at PSLE, this way all students taking PSLE are 12 year old. This way 13 or 14 years old '新学生' would not have an advantage and PSLE would then be a more apple to apple comparison.
What, exactly, is the situation?
Some primary schools doing too well, relative to others?
No good secondary school to go to? Cos of the 1.x% of Geppers? (aren't all schools equally good :evil: )
PSLE too tough? Bell curve not fair?
Rich parents who could afford quality tutors depriving others of As?
What??
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david59:
:goodpost:
:goodpost:concern2:
The last 2-3 pages of comments confirms the fact that parents are taking such exams as a competition which I find is the need for change. I feel like I am re-watching the 2012 Olympic Games - so and so broke the record - cannot be- she must be doping... :slapshead: Although it isn't about cheating here, but it is like saying there is non-level playing ground and unfairness, which is what education should not be in the first place - it should not be viewed as a competition in the first place. All these talks about who is top and if not you are mediocre is driving everyone madly in a competition of academic competition - at the expense of real learning and real education.
The key issue is that many people have a very narrow definition of success. And such narrow definition of success being ingrained in children at this very early stage is uncalled for, is dangerous, and detrimental to future success of our country. We have been carrying this narrow definition for the past decade. To continue to prosper and propel ourselves, we need to take on a broader view and celebrate success in various fields. Although I would personally prefer that things be more transparent, instead of censoring this and that, there comes a time when things tend to take on extreme and side-effects, and calls for some form of administering.
I do not believe that those who are already working hard would stop doing so because top students are not being glorified, unless the ultimate aim of the student / parent is to be in that limelight. To go on to say why not stop disclosing this achiever and that achiever is carrying this too far and is not being rational in thinking.
On the contrary, I see goodness and nobility in shining the lime light on those who have all odds against them to succeed, yet they did it, although they may not be the best of the best in results. It gives hope. At least for now.
May I add, why so much stress just simply in primary school education? I feel a lot is due to the schemes like dsa n GEP.
DSA pushes some parents to make their kids join certain sports or activities with the unceasing hope that their kids can get into top schools despite their mediocre academic results. Pushing the kids to do things they may not like is unhealthy for family bonding. It's fine if the kid enjoys. However, the greatest stress comes when the kid finds himself struggling to perform in the elite school he would otherwise be unable to get into.
GEP robs the neighborhood schools of their top best students and give them to the elite schools who thus constantly perform excellingly above national average in PSLE. How then can these neighborhood schools ensure that they can continue to produce top scorers above 270 in the yearly PSLE?
I know some neighborhood schools select and form an elite class of a smaller 20 to 25 students in Primary 5 n 6 with the hope n objective of achieving a few top scores with 270 n above. This elite class is given the best resources n teachers to achieve this aim. I wonder what happen to the weaker students then. I see unjust treatment in our educational system here. I believe many students in elite class come from well educated n well to do families with great resources to help their kids academically. Yet they also receive top class treatment from their schools. The elite class is therefore stressed with lots of works to achieve the schools' desire for top scorers. Their parents are also stressed to help their kids to keep up with the demand set by the teachers.
The parents of weaker students who are more likely of lower educational background n lower income group cannot afford good quality tuition for their kids as the schools are unlikely to put greater effort to help them due to thinly spread better resources for the elite class. Thus, these parents are desperate for miracles to happen or send their kids to cheap group tuition centres that really hardly help. Instead, more time is wasted n the kids are stressed with more tuition work they cannot do, on top of school works.
The best way to present the success of a school that is truly educating their students academically is not by displaying a huge banner showcasing their top students but by displaying the average aggregate PSLE score whereby we total up the scores of all the students and divide it by the total number of students. By doing this, every school will have to make every effort to help all their students to do better as any neglect of any class will likely result in a low average score for that particular school.
It is important to groom the best but to do so at the neglect of the weaker ones is unjust meritocracy ! It simply promotes a greater divide between the smarter n the weaker ones. -
FQW:
I've been thinking abt this too leh :rotflmao: But MOE don't allow local to exceed age limit leh.OT a bit.
What do pple here think about overseas kids joining our pri sch midway and dropping 1-2 levels? That's one area I feel puts all 12-yr old kids here [local or otherwise] at a big disadvantage. It'll be useful to know how many such cases are there each year.
There are days when I'm against flow and think kids should be able to learn when their brains are ready.
I'm not talking abt reducing stress. I'm thinking in terms of the devt of the brain. -
david59:
:goodpost: Like your \"... receive top class treatment from their schools\". Top students (GEP or not) get best treatment and resources. Weaker ones are left to swim or sink. :imdrowning:
:goodpost:concern2:
The last 2-3 pages of comments confirms the fact that parents are taking such exams as a competition which I find is the need for change. I feel like I am re-watching the 2012 Olympic Games - so and so broke the record - cannot be- she must be doping... :slapshead: Although it isn't about cheating here, but it is like saying there is non-level playing ground and unfairness, which is what education should not be in the first place - it should not be viewed as a competition in the first place. All these talks about who is top and if not you are mediocre is driving everyone madly in a competition of academic competition - at the expense of real learning and real education.
The key issue is that many people have a very narrow definition of success. And such narrow definition of success being ingrained in children at this very early stage is uncalled for, is dangerous, and detrimental to future success of our country. We have been carrying this narrow definition for the past decade. To continue to prosper and propel ourselves, we need to take on a broader view and celebrate success in various fields. Although I would personally prefer that things be more transparent, instead of censoring this and that, there comes a time when things tend to take on extreme and side-effects, and calls for some form of administering.
I do not believe that those who are already working hard would stop doing so because top students are not being glorified, unless the ultimate aim of the student / parent is to be in that limelight. To go on to say why not stop disclosing this achiever and that achiever is carrying this too far and is not being rational in thinking.
On the contrary, I see goodness and nobility in shining the lime light on those who have all odds against them to succeed, yet they did it, although they may not be the best of the best in results. It gives hope. At least for now.
May I add, why so much stress just simply in primary school education? I feel a lot is due to the schemes like dsa n GEP.
DSA pushes some parents to make their kids join certain sports or activities with the unceasing hope that their kids can get into top schools despite their mediocre academic results. Pushing the kids to do things they may not like is unhealthy for family bonding. It's fine if the kid enjoys. However, the greatest stress comes when the kid finds himself struggling to perform in the elite school he would otherwise be unable to get into.
GEP robs the neighborhood schools of their top best students and give them to the elite schools who thus constantly perform excellingly above national average in PSLE. How then can these neighborhood schools ensure that they can continue to produce top scorers above 270 in the yearly PSLE?
I know some neighborhood schools select and form an elite class of a smaller 20 to 25 students in Primary 5 n 6 with the hope n objective of achieving a few top scores with 270 n above. This elite class is given the best resources n teachers to achieve this aim. I wonder what happen to the weaker students then. I see unjust treatment in our educational system here. I believe many students in elite class come from well educated n well to do families with great resources to help their kids academically. Yet they also receive top class treatment from their schools. The elite class is therefore stressed with lots of works to achieve the schools' desire for top scorers. Their parents are also stressed to help their kids to keep up with the demand set by the teachers.
The parents of weaker students who are more likely of lower educational background n lower income group cannot afford good quality tuition for their kids as the schools are unlikely to put greater effort to help them due to thinly spread better resources for the elite class. Thus, these parents are desperate for miracles to happen or send their kids to cheap group tuition centres that really hardly help. Instead, more time is wasted n the kids are stressed with more tuition work they cannot do, on top of school works.
The best way to present the success of a school that is truly educating their students academically is not by displaying a huge banner showcasing their top students but by displaying the average aggregate PSLE score whereby we total up the scores of all the students and divide it by the total number of students. By doing this, every school will have to make every effort to help all their students to do better as any neglect of any class will likely result in a low average score for that particular school.
It is important to groom the best but to do so at the neglect of the weaker ones is unjust meritocracy ! It simply promotes a greater divide between the smarter n the weaker ones. -
Melodies:
Exactly. There is no big deal about the GEP. Differentiated learning and curriculum happen elsewhere too.. Pathlight and Assumption Pathway Schools come to mind.Honestly, your 'obstacles' are the schemes that allow resourceful parents to explore and hence create this 震耳欲聋的呐喊声 situation.
It is a matter of trading off between the consequences of these schemes that affect the majority/public and whatsoever to pave way for training this small privilege group.
Aiyo, what so big deal about this GEP program? You go to UK/US/Australia/western countries, this is the way (unstructured way) how they teach their pupils la! ha!ha!ha Don't tell me Angoo kid is more gifted than our kids and they can cope but we can't cope. :rant: -
SAHM_TAN:
Agree. If MOE can allow foreigners' kids to join a class level that is one or two levels lower than their ages because of subject's deficiency, then the same treatment should be given to local students who are very weak in their academic studies. I know of some kids who were just not ready for primary one but continued to be promoted all the way to primary six anyway despite failing horrendously in exams every year.
I've been thinking abt this too leh :rotflmao: But MOE don't allow local to exceed age limit leh.FQW:
OT a bit.
What do pple here think about overseas kids joining our pri sch midway and dropping 1-2 levels? That's one area I feel puts all 12-yr old kids here [local or otherwise] at a big disadvantage. It'll be useful to know how many such cases are there each year.
There are days when I'm against flow and think kids should be able to learn when their brains are ready.
I'm not talking abt reducing stress. I'm thinking in terms of the devt of the brain.
In my time many many years ago, the very weak ones are allowed to repeat at their level when they failed badly. Some are late developers while others just did not get a good grounding in pre-school to prepare them for primary school education.
What is the goal of education? I believe it is to help every student to at least acquire a decent level of education to prepare them for a better future. -
sinoboy:
Don't think local parents can ask to retain their kids for that kind of advantage. But I think most parents might try, if its a sure way of entering good school, good scholarship and good unis which leads to higher chances of success in life in the future.MOE admits overseas one at a lower academic level to make sure they catch up I think. But these kids catch up much faster because some/most of them have more matured brains and better problem solving skills. Think the phenomenon is more pronounced in the last decade.
Would u retain your kids 1~2years to gain this advantage? :scratchhead:Nebbermind:
[quote=\"FQW\"]OT a bit.
What do pple here think about overseas kids joining our pri sch midway and dropping 1-2 levels? That's one area I feel puts all 12-yr old kids here [local or otherwise] at a big disadvantage. It'll be useful to know how many such cases are there each year.
Best solution may be to let them join the academic level of their age and let them perform well or fail according to their abilities. Then more 'equitable'?[/quote]I seriously don't think \"most\" Singaporean parents will retain their kids for 1-2 years BECAUSE it is not a sure way...\"success in future\"
1. We don't have enough statistics here to ascertain this \"over-age\" advantage to foreign students. How many of these \"over-age\" foreign students are there? How many of them out-perform local students? (or is their average performance really better than local students?) If so, how much of it is attributable to the \"over-age\" factor?
2. If this \"over-age\" advantage is such a significant factor, how about those local students born in Dec vs born in Jan? should we level the playing field too? how to?
3. Let's put ourselves in the shoes of these foreign students and their parents, do you think they are making this choice (of starting one level lower)because they are worried about \"catching up\" with local standard, or are they trying to do this in order to become PSLE top scorers? From not being able to catch up to becoming top scorers, there is a big gap, isn't it?
4. If like you say, these people catch up much faster than MOE (and their parents) expect, do you think they would have known that by now, and hence do not require this \"lowering one grade\" since most parents won't want their kids waste 1-2 years, right? -
david59:
(a) DSA's objective is not to push parents to push their kids to pursue certain activities. That these misguided parents CHOOSE to make use of DSA in this manner is not the fault of the scheme! It was not designed to be thus exploited!
DSA pushes some parents to make their kids join certain sports or activities with the unceasing hope that their kids can get into top schools despite their mediocre academic results. Pushing the kids to do things they may not like is unhealthy for family bonding. It's fine if the kid enjoys. However, the greatest stress comes when the kid finds himself struggling to perform in the elite school he would otherwise be unable to get into.
GEP robs the neighborhood schools of their top best students and give them to the elite schools who thus constantly perform excellingly above national average in PSLE. How then can these neighborhood schools ensure that they can continue to produce top scorers above 270 in the yearly PSLE?
(b) Actually, there appears to be many, many, many schools producing consistently good results year after year. Certainly far more than the few GE centres. And I would think if a school's objective is simply to produce top scorers, it has completely missed the point of education. If that is indeed the case, then I would blame it on 3 letters-- KPI! -
CayennePepper:
I find myself keep repeating the same thing over and over again!
Exactly. There is no big deal about the GEP. Differentiated learning and curriculum happen elsewhere too.. Pathlight and Assumption Pathway Schools come to mind.Melodies:
Honestly, your 'obstacles' are the schemes that allow resourceful parents to explore and hence create this 震耳欲聋的呐喊声 situation.
It is a matter of trading off between the consequences of these schemes that affect the majority/public and whatsoever to pave way for training this small privilege group.
Aiyo, what so big deal about this GEP program? You go to UK/US/Australia/western countries, this is the way (unstructured way) how they teach their pupils la! ha!ha!ha Don't tell me Angoo kid is more gifted than our kids and they can cope but we can't cope. :rant: -
Can someone enlighten me, is it true that no repeat is allowed by MOE no matter how badly a child performs in primary school?
Since we know that foreign students are allowed to start 1 or even 2 levels lower when joining our primary schools mid-way. How about returning Singaporean, are they given this option too? If so, anyone knows how many of returning Singaporean take up the chance to gain the "over-age" advantage?
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