MOE to stop publishing names of top students?
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Nebbermind:
Whether I would or not is not the point. The point here is if a sizable portion of overseas students are allowed to drop 1-2 level each year, it really does skew the competition. If it's just a small number, then no issue.
Would u retain your kids 1~2years to gain this advantage? :scratchhead:FQW:
OT a bit.
What do pple here think about overseas kids joining our pri sch midway and dropping 1-2 levels? That's one area I feel puts all 12-yr old kids here [local or otherwise] at a big disadvantage. It'll be useful to know how many such cases are there each year. -
slmkhoo:
How many non-Singaporeans are there taking PSLE every year? Is it a big fraction of the cohort? If it's small, does it really matter if they have some advantage in age? They have a huge disadvantage in language. If we English-speakers sent our kids to school in China, say, would we expect our kids to join their age peers if they only enter in P3 or P4?[/quote]While they may be disadvantaged in EL, they will have a big advantage in terms of MT, maths and maturity. My post is not an attempt at FT-bashing. I feel not being xenophobic doesn't mean we shouldn't call a spade, a spade. Competing against peers who are 2 yrs younger really have its advantage.
Would u retain your kids 1~2years to gain this advantage? :scratchhead:Nebbermind:
[quote=\"FQW\"]OT a bit.
What do pple here think about overseas kids joining our pri sch midway and dropping 1-2 levels? That's one area I feel puts all 12-yr old kids here [local or otherwise] at a big disadvantage. It'll be useful to know how many such cases are there each year.
Like you, I've always been curious about how large this group of students is. That's all. -
FQW:
For a rough estimate, try the difference btw no.of babies born in a particular year and no.of students who took PSLE 12 years later.
While they may be disadvantaged in EL, they will have a big advantage in terms of MT, maths and maturity. My post is not an attempt at FT-bashing. I feel not being xenophobic doesn't mean we shouldn't call a spade, a spade. Competing against peers who are 2 yrs younger really have its advantage.
Like you, I've always been curious about how large this group of students is. That's all. -
Frankly, If you think your kid is good for DSA then go ahead and compete with the rest of applicants based on the academic to get a CO. The IP sch never stop any child from applying. No point complaining unfair this and that.
Ask yourself the following situation:
- If your mainstream kid got a CO in the IP sch and yet later score lower then the sch COP in PSLE, is he/she going to withdraw and give his/her seat to the kid who meet the COP?
Really endless to this green eyes mindset which got nothing to do with this thread topic. -
FQW:
While they may be disadvantaged in EL, they will have a big advantage in terms of MT, maths and maturity. My post is not an attempt at FT-bashing. I feel not being xenophobic doesn't mean we shouldn't call a spade, a spade. Competing against peers who are 2 yrs younger really have its advantage.
How many non-Singaporeans are there taking PSLE every year? Is it a big fraction of the cohort? If it's small, does it really matter if they have some advantage in age? They have a huge disadvantage in language. If we English-speakers sent our kids to school in China, say, would we expect our kids to join their age peers if they only enter in P3 or P4?slmkhoo:
[quote=\"Nebbermind\"]
Would u retain your kids 1~2years to gain this advantage? :scratchhead:
Like you, I've always been curious about how large this group of students is. That's all.[/quote]:grphug:
Embrace them?
Their overall numbers might be small in proportion to the whole cohort but i'm curious what is their composition in top schools like Hwa Chong, NYGS, RI, RGS, GEP programs or successful DSAs either by academic or Chinese instruments. If the proportion in top/IP schools are high then are there enough places for locals to join the top JCs like HCI or RI? Judging from the COP of 3 points from 6 subjects I think not easy.
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CayennePepper:
Agree with you KPI is a top stress for teachers to make them perform and gain promotion or better increment.
(a) DSA's objective is not to push parents to push their kids to pursue certain activities. That these misguided parents CHOOSE to make use of DSA in this manner is not the fault of the scheme! It was not designed to be thus exploited!david59:
DSA pushes some parents to make their kids join certain sports or activities with the unceasing hope that their kids can get into top schools despite their mediocre academic results. Pushing the kids to do things they may not like is unhealthy for family bonding. It's fine if the kid enjoys. However, the greatest stress comes when the kid finds himself struggling to perform in the elite school he would otherwise be unable to get into.
GEP robs the neighborhood schools of their top best students and give them to the elite schools who thus constantly perform excellingly above national average in PSLE. How then can these neighborhood schools ensure that they can continue to produce top scorers above 270 in the yearly PSLE?
(b) Actually, there appears to be many, many, many schools producing consistently good results year after year. Certainly far more than the few GE centres. And I would think if a school's objective is simply to produce top scorers, it has completely missed the point of education. If that is indeed the case, then I would blame it on 3 letters-- KPI!
Regard to pt a, you are right about the misguided parents. Nevertheless, why a need for DSA? Of course it is bound to be some good in DSA. However, why create a scheme that causes these students who are not on par with their peers in the elite school to suffer so much stress academically. Besides, isn't it obviously unfair advantage for the DSA schools to procure the cream of the crop into their respective CCAs teams who are like the pros when competing against other schools who do not have this advantage. I attribute no honor to such teams who win by such unfair advantage. It is like in a game, I choose all the skillful players and the other person is left with the leftovers. Should I feel great that my team win. :oops:
As for pt. b, yes, the neighborhood schools are still doing well. But nevertheless, this forming of elite classes is probably a recent phenomenon. Why are schools beginning to do this? Isn't it unfair that all the other classes have 40 students but this elite class has only 20 to 25? What is their objective? Ethically right to do so? Does MOE condone such strategy? Btw, in the past, schools' desire was to be able to display a big banner to show that their school has achieve 100% PSLE passes. That was a noble goal to strive and achieve.
But now, the schools' desire is to show off how many of their students score top marks in the same huge banner. It does not matter how many of their students fail their PSLE. -
metz:
That's really the extreme scenario. You mean every single overseas student - regardless if nationality - will drop at least one level?
For a rough estimate, try the difference btw no.of babies born in a particular year and no.of students who took PSLE 12 years later.FQW:
While they may be disadvantaged in EL, they will have a big advantage in terms of MT, maths and maturity. My post is not an attempt at FT-bashing. I feel not being xenophobic doesn't mean we shouldn't call a spade, a spade. Competing against peers who are 2 yrs younger really have its advantage.
Like you, I've always been curious about how large this group of students is. That's all. -
sinoboy:
What in your opinion constitutes a high proportion?
Their overall numbers might be small in proportion to the whole cohort but i'm curious what is their composition in top schools like Hwa Chong, NYGS, RI, RGS, GEP programs or successful DSAs either by academic or Chinese instruments. If the proportion in top/IP schools are high then are there enough places for locals to join the top JCs like HCI or RI? Judging from the COP of 3 points from 6 subjects I think not easy. -
FQW:
That's really the extreme scenario. You mean every single overseas student - regardless if nationality - will drop at least one level?[/quote]As I have indicated, it's a rough estimate of how large the number might potentially be.
For a rough estimate, try the difference btw no.of babies born in a particular year and no.of students who took PSLE 12 years later.metz:
[quote=\"FQW\"]
While they may be disadvantaged in EL, they will have a big advantage in terms of MT, maths and maturity. My post is not an attempt at FT-bashing. I feel not being xenophobic doesn't mean we shouldn't call a spade, a spade. Competing against peers who are 2 yrs younger really have its advantage.
Like you, I've always been curious about how large this group of students is. That's all.
For a more accurate estimate, one should exclude the number of Sg students who are on LOA, if the data is available.
Of course, the most accurate data would be directly from MOE. -
david59:
I just counted 91 schools in the list of secondary schools participating in the 2012 DSA Exercise, found on the MOE website. Didn't realise there's such a whopping number of schools offering DSA!
... Besides, isn't it obviously unfair advantage for the DSA schools to procure the cream of the crop into their respective CCAs teams who are like the pros when competing against other schools who do not have this advantage. I attribute no honor to such teams who win by such unfair advantage. It is like in a game, I choose all the skillful players and the other person is left with the leftovers. Should I feel great that my team win. :oops:
...
But now, the schools' desire is to show off how many of their students score top marks in the same huge banner. It does not matter how many of their students fail their PSLE.
How can the schools be said to have obtained an unfair advantage when it's the students/parents who make the choice to favour one school over another?
Using your game analogy, if all the teams open their doors to welcome players, and good players largely pick a few select teams to APPLY for trials (and they should be well aware there's no guarantee of membership), then should the other teams just sit and cry foul?
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Well, schools now appear wary of celebrating good scores :razz:
So there may be fewer self-congratulatory banners :evil:
I think it may be too sweeping a statement to declare that schools ignore the weaker students. Celebrating achievements also doesn't preclude taking care of them.
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