MOE to stop publishing names of top students?
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jtoh:
Have you considered the situation that some schools are already filled up with existing IP students and have no vacancy for those bright students who have scored well in O level? It is true to some extent.
I refer to your statement above, highlighted in red. How are these JCs discriminating against good students? It's demand and supply of places available in a JC, any JC. ALL students can use their bonus points up to a max of 4 points (2 for CCA, 2 for affliation, 2 for HMT) for entry into ANY JC. Some JCs are deemed more popular than others and hence are more popular, driving the COP down. There's no discrimination. A matter of economics. Demand and supply.sinoboy:
Ok you win.
Hope we don't see newcomers flooding our school system at the expense of the locals. Hope changes can be made to entering schools with a lower than COP score using DSA for GEP, IP program in some JCs that discriminate against good students by asking for 3 points with 6 subjects. :scratchhead:
If not the children slowly crawl their way up to uni in ITE or Poly .. provided they don't pick up bad habits and fall by the wayside in the process. The kids can take the easier IB route, but not sure our kids are suitable for that system.
Sweeping changes are required, but with lots of defensive stance from either ignorance or vested interests, but I'm not sure if any non-superficial changes will ever be made. I'm out of here for good.
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Melodies:
Have you considered the situation that some schools are already filled up with existing IP students and have no vacancy for those bright students who have scored well in O level? It is true to some extent.[/quote]I'm well aware of the situation of IP schools. Are you? Do you know the number of vacancies available at each JC for O level intake? The number of vacancies available at these top JCs number in the HUNDREDS EACH, as much as other JCs which have affliated students or who are not IP. In other words, there are plenty of vacancies at these top JCs. You just have to be the best to get in bec all the top O students want in as well.
I refer to your statement above, highlighted in red. How are these JCs discriminating against good students? It's demand and supply of places available in a JC, any JC. ALL students can use their bonus points up to a max of 4 points (2 for CCA, 2 for affliation, 2 for HMT) for entry into ANY JC. Some JCs are deemed more popular than others and hence are more popular, driving the COP down. There's no discrimination. A matter of economics. Demand and supply.jtoh:
[quote=\"sinoboy\"]
Ok you win.
Hope we don't see newcomers flooding our school system at the expense of the locals. Hope changes can be made to entering schools with a lower than COP score using DSA for GEP, IP program in some JCs that discriminate against good students by asking for 3 points with 6 subjects. :scratchhead:
If not the children slowly crawl their way up to uni in ITE or Poly .. provided they don't pick up bad habits and fall by the wayside in the process. The kids can take the easier IB route, but not sure our kids are suitable for that system.
Sweeping changes are required, but with lots of defensive stance from either ignorance or vested interests, but I'm not sure if any non-superficial changes will ever be made. I'm out of here for good. -
Melodies:
Those highlighted in green (above) are my suggestion. What is your take for the purpose of discussion?cherryc:
By Lee Wei Ling
That the PSLE now causes so much stress is largely because the results are presented not only as grades for each subject but also as a T-score - an aggregate score derived from comparison with the scores of all the other candidates. The T-score feels like a psychological threat because admission to a school of one's choice is decided mainly, although not solely, by it.
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There are ways to make the differentiation of the results less precise, hence less stressful. Currently, posting to secondary schools is based on the aggregate T-score taken to two decimal places! If we could have a system where candidates are divided into bands (for example, between 130 and 140), with those scoring above a certain range (say 250 or 260) corresponding to the top decile of students, there would be no need to differentiate them further.
This idea is fantastic!
It will be good that all PSLE results are divided into different band groups such that A* with those scoring top 1-3% (can be determined by T-score but blackout the T-score), A1 group for those scoring top 3%-10%, A2 group for those scoring top 10-20%, B group for those scoring to 20%-40% and C for those scoring top 40-60% and so on and so forth...
For the purpose of posting, all students within the same band would stand an equal chance of getting into particular schools. If there were more applicants than places available in those schools, entry might be based on balloting. Such a procedure would have the advantage of spreading out talented students among a larger group of schools than now. Now, all schools are truly good schools
At present, academically strong students are accepted into a limited number of elite schools. They tend to come from middle-class or upper middle-class homes. As a result, they are unaware that many Singaporean students come from poorer homes, have to do housework and may also have to help out at hawker stalls or do other odd jobs to supplement the family income.
For purpose of posting, instead of putting all students within the same band into the same particular schools, I'm thinking of every school in Singapore offers enrollment for these 5 bands (e.g. ranging from A* to C group for schools offer express classes). If there were more applicants than places available in those schools, entry might be based on distance and balloting. Such a procedure would have the advantage of spreading out talented students to all schools and we will have students from all walks of life - achieve diversity goal and our dc will benefit from this.
Still, I believe the PSLE serves a purpose. First, the T-score is an objective measure to help place students in a variety of schools according to their academic ability. Second, it also helps us channel students into the stream most appropriate for them - Express, Normal (Academic), Normal (Technical) and so on.
Yes, the examination will cause some stress no matter what we do. But a little stress is not a bad thing. After all, we will all encounter some stress some time in our lives. We might as well get used to it while we are young.
I fully agree! Some stress is good to drive people to work hard but not to the current extend of having our poor dc study all the time until no time for others.
The writer is director of the National Neuroscience Institute.
Abolish banding of sec school but band the students instead ?? -
GLORYmum:
Those highlighted in green (above) are my suggestion. What is your take for the purpose of discussion?Melodies:
[quote=\"cherryc\"]By Lee Wei Ling
That the PSLE now causes so much stress is largely because the results are presented not only as grades for each subject but also as a T-score - an aggregate score derived from comparison with the scores of all the other candidates. The T-score feels like a psychological threat because admission to a school of one's choice is decided mainly, although not solely, by it.
------------------------------------------------------
-------------
There are ways to make the differentiation of the results less precise, hence less stressful. Currently, posting to secondary schools is based on the aggregate T-score taken to two decimal places! If we could have a system where candidates are divided into bands (for example, between 130 and 140), with those scoring above a certain range (say 250 or 260) corresponding to the top decile of students, there would be no need to differentiate them further.
This idea is fantastic!
It will be good that all PSLE results are divided into different band groups such that A* with those scoring top 1-3% (can be determined by T-score but blackout the T-score), A1 group for those scoring top 3%-10%, A2 group for those scoring top 10-20%, B group for those scoring to 20%-40% and C for those scoring top 40-60% and so on and so forth...
For the purpose of posting, all students within the same band would stand an equal chance of getting into particular schools. If there were more applicants than places available in those schools, entry might be based on balloting. Such a procedure would have the advantage of spreading out talented students among a larger group of schools than now. Now, all schools are truly good schools
At present, academically strong students are accepted into a limited number of elite schools. They tend to come from middle-class or upper middle-class homes. As a result, they are unaware that many Singaporean students come from poorer homes, have to do housework and may also have to help out at hawker stalls or do other odd jobs to supplement the family income.
For purpose of posting, instead of putting all students within the same band into the same particular schools, I'm thinking of every school in Singapore offers enrollment for these 5 bands (e.g. ranging from A* to C group for schools offer express classes). If there were more applicants than places available in those schools, entry might be based on distance and balloting. Such a procedure would have the advantage of spreading out talented students to all schools and we will have students from all walks of life - achieve diversity goal and our dc will benefit from this.
Still, I believe the PSLE serves a purpose. First, the T-score is an objective measure to help place students in a variety of schools according to their academic ability. Second, it also helps us channel students into the stream most appropriate for them - Express, Normal (Academic), Normal (Technical) and so on.
Yes, the examination will cause some stress no matter what we do. But a little stress is not a bad thing. After all, we will all encounter some stress some time in our lives. We might as well get used to it while we are young.
I fully agree! Some stress is good to drive people to work hard but not to the current extend of having our poor dc study all the time until no time for others.
The writer is director of the National Neuroscience Institute.
Abolish banding of sec school but band the students instead ??[/quote]Isnt it still better than the current force ranking system for every child that give a psychological threat to every child? Anyway, they getting used to those A*, A, B kind of grading in primary schools anyway.. -
Melodies:
Have you considered the situation that some schools are already filled up with existing IP students and have no vacancy for those bright students who have scored well in O level? It is true to some extent.
I think it is reasonable to think that those schools already have statistics showing them the relative performance of the IP students compared to the O level students two years later when they take their A levels or IB. 'Discrimination' suggests that the O level students usually do better than the IP students (as a batch), but are nevertheless shut out of those schools.
Is there a reason to do that? Are there statistics to suggest that is happening? -
Melodies:
断章取义,只根据自己的理解或需要截取片断或部分. 悟透不出原意呢?还是没有意识？ :sad: :faint:
vis-à-vis ? -
jtoh:
I'm well aware of the situation of IP schools. Are you? Do you know the number of vacancies available at each JC for O level intake? The number of vacancies available at these top JCs number in the HUNDREDS EACH, as much as other JCs which have affliated students or who are not IP. In other words, there are plenty of vacancies at these top JCs. You just have to be the best to get in bec all the top O students want in as well.[/quote]Are you saying 'The number of vacancies available at these top JCs number in the HUNDREDS EACH for those O level students to get into these top JCs (then, will be thousands vacancies in those top JCs since so many JCs)? You sure? Why so many O level students cried foul every year. some said, they got low point for O level still can't get in RI ? huh? :? :? :?
Have you considered the situation that some schools are already filled up with existing IP students and have no vacancy for those bright students who have scored well in O level? It is true to some extent.Melodies:
[quote=\"jtoh\"]
I refer to your statement above, highlighted in red. How are these JCs discriminating against good students? It's demand and supply of places available in a JC, any JC. ALL students can use their bonus points up to a max of 4 points (2 for CCA, 2 for affliation, 2 for HMT) for entry into ANY JC. Some JCs are deemed more popular than others and hence are more popular, driving the COP down. There's no discrimination. A matter of economics. Demand and supply.
I'm interested to know the situation as I don't have dc who has done O level. -
Do away with the hearsay ?
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wonderm:
:goodpost:
:goodpost:Sun_2010:
But about having a robust education system that wins.
I too am of the view that education system needs more than mere tweaking . Some fundamental changes need to be made (not just in singapore but most other countries too). But that has to be a well thought out and implemented with care and gradually rather than have some drastic popular measures. this particualr change of not naming top schlars is like you say superficial too.
I also differ in the view that competition has to be kept at bay to improve the system. Far from it. Healthy competition motivates kids. And bringing in foreign competition spurs the local kids and makes them see beyond themselves. Better to face them on the home ground.
I am more like keep parents (including me) out, they are the ones who twist the arms of the education system to benefit their darlings. They are the ones who are piling pressure. But MOE should strategize to handle them. How to devise a system so that parents are not feeling threatened , so that they stop spending most of their home time making life tough for the children , so that good education can take place . No mean task that.
Honestly most of us are short sighted. Low Marks in an exam in lower primary makes us go balistic. We are really losing the big picture. One mark here or one mark there. One not so good teacher. A foreign student who has such a strong language skill that our child pales in comparison. Petty issues. many really feel hurt when such things happen. Our emotions as a parent clouds our judgement of the system. We can rant and grumble. But not many have the wisdom to look beyond \"me and my child\", so our rants should be taken with a vat of salt.
It is indeed difficult to step back and keep prespective. That has always been a problem with parenting. What should I do -am I over reacting ? Am i under reacting? Am I going to regret this later?
So MOE has an uphill task of keeping parents as partners in education yet detached enough not to get too involved to take things personally. Besides the huge task of steering education to cater to a very different kind of future
Our opinions help. More so backed by concrete data. Because hearsay data is coloured heavily by our emotions. And that distorts reality.
That is all I am saying.
I believe all of us here are concerned for our children n the future generations. My wish is that in whatever schemes or policies MOE will make in the future, it will not give more advantage to the cream of the crop at the expense of the weaker students.
It took many years for the government to finally give more funding to special education students after years of lobbying. Singapore needs to be pragmatic for economic reasons but it is time we also grow into a gracious society where we give helps to the weaker ones.
Take a good look at the Educational system in Finland.
3rd Nov in the \"Today\" newspaper, there was a very enlightening article in page 12 to 14 entitling \" Why are Finland's schools successful?\". Globally, their students ranked second in Science, third in Reading and sixth in Maths in 2009. And yet their students do not have mandatory standard exams up to age 16!
What really impresses me is that in their educational system, all students of varying abilities are taught in the same classroom and special attention is given to the weaker ones by special education teachers. This really revealed a sharp contrast with our country's approach to education which gives (knowingly or unknowingly) greater advantages to the brighter students.
Their approach to equality in education reminds me of a passage in the Holy Bible which emphasizes that the stronger parts of the body must give greater honor and care to the weaker parts of the body so that the whole body can function in unity and concern for one another.
1Corinthians 12:21 to 26 :
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. -
Twinkies:
Do away with the hearsay ?
Not hearsay but it was published previously in the newspaper. Newspaper can report something that is not true meh?
Please share more to clarify the situation then
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