MOE to stop publishing names of top students?
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BeContented:
My answers already posted in my earlier post.
Hi Melodies,Melodies:
CayennePepper
R u willing to give up the few top JCs and settle with second tier JC?
R u willing to support the idea of competing based on PSLE results for top IP schools?
R u willing to support the idea of getting rid of DSA for GEP domains?
R u willing to support that everyone should compete based on the same ground?
己所不欲，勿施于人
On your queries to CayennePepper, I have one more to add on.
- R u willing to give up your DC's affiliation to a good secondary school and compete based on the same ground ie. PSLE score as other non-affiliated students?
From what I understand, affiliated students tend to be given 10-20 advantage points.
IMO, DSA definitely has its purpose. Just look at LimJeck, the Maths Genius. I'm sure glad he DSA and got recognized for his talent.
As for GEP, there are some really good ones and the fact that DSA is not a guaranteed process for them, it goes to show that schools do not accept blindly. GEP kids are just like any other kids....they have ups and downs.
While calling for the scrapping of DSA, would one impose the same standard on their own DC?
Just look around, many die die must go to primary schools with affiliation, and many appealing after PSLE etc.
Going by notion that DSA kids who didn't score the COP should give up.....those who didn't score should not be appealing either. Affiliation should be removed too.
As for the rest of the comments, we have also discussed extensively in the various pages and leading to no way. -
cherryc:
In other words, our non-IP secondary schools are failing to teach our students the necessary or relevant skills. Thank you very much for that enlightenment. In a nutshell, this looks like a systemic failure to me at the secondary school level. I take back what I said earlier about there being a reasonably level playing field.pirate:
[quote=\"him4mixer\"]The new ‘A’ level examination started in 2006 with the introduction of H1, H2 and H3 subjects. The papers (not the MTL) btw are NO LONGER set by Cambridge!! Instead the questions are now set by MOE (through XXX branch).
What’s the difference?
Many of us who took the ‘A’ levels in the good ole days could do well just by constantly practice & practice TYS. It worked because many of the questions then were LOT (lower order thinking) like recap and recall. Few questions were on HOT (higher order thinking) like data analysis and application. Those who took ‘S’ paper would work on questions requiring them to synergize and extrapolate the concepts/knowledge learnt.
Unfortunately now this is not so…
H2 papers nowadays have literally no recap and recall questions that will favor the hardworking students. Instead the papers are filled with thinking questions where it will favor the thinking students.
Example: I had no problem finishing 40 MCQ qns within 20 min in the old syllabus and achieve perfect score. However now even if I am to finish the MCQ paper in time (as a capacity as an experienced teacher!), I am not confident to achieve perfect score. Some of the concepts tested in the paper were what I learnt in the university, up to Masters!
Thus the IP schools start to teach these HOT skills real early so that they will be well prepared when they come to us as JC students. Life is never fair but that’s how it works. The smart ones have now a better advantage IF they can benefit from our system.
Minister Sir, are you reading this?
Now you know why PSLE is so stressful. If your kid does not score tops enough to get into IP, they will have to go to a secondary school that will fail to teach them the required and relevant HOT skills necessary for them to prepare for the A-levels.
I think we have more hurdles than we think we have. Anyway, thanks him4mixer for sharing! I just wonder if equipped with all these \"HOT\" skills means that the kids will do very well in university. I am puzzled cos with A levels in UK being \"easier\" than Singapore's , I wonder if it means that Singapore students will excel in UK universities or in other overseas universities. I don't think the level of difficulty (and stress) in other countries' junior or senior schools have shot up as much as ours. And also with all these desirable HOT and other skills and advanced knowledge, do they become better graduates and workers ? I check with some university lecturers , I am surprised to know that some of them are the \"old school\" types so are they able to relate to these HOT skills? In fact, in some faculties, I think the curriculum has not changed as drastically as we have changed our Pri-JC curriculum. Imagine learning advanced level of Physics up to tertiary/master degrees standard at A levels, then seriously go university to learn what ?[/quote]Ironically, our A level students have no advantage over those from other countries who learned LOT when come to the admission selection for those oversea universities though they have scored A in HOT questions which are equivalent to deg/master level! :slapshead: -
Melodies:
:scared: Eye-opener..
Ironically, our A level students have no advantage over those from other countries who learned LOT when come to the admission selection for those oversea universities though they have scored A in HOT questions which are equivalent to deg/master level! :slapshead: -
In short,
Learning HOT skills in GEP program versus learning LOT/NOT skills in mainstreams
Geppers handle PSLE exams better than mainstreamers as there are some HOT questions in PSLE papers. As such, majority of students who have scored 270 and above in NYPS are GEPpers! Spilled-over of HOT materials from GEP to mainstreams does help mainstreams to do well in PSLE. As a result, about 47% P6 pupils in NYPS scored 250 and above.
Learning HOT skills in IP program versus learning LOT/NOT skills in O level
IP students are well trained with HOT skills and hence they are well prepared for A level as compared to their counterparts in non-IP schools. In A level, some of the concepts tested in the papers are equivalent to those in university, and even up in Masters! Students from non-IP schools would have to prepare to take some set back and do catch-up works in order to stand head-to-toe with the IP students as for now.
However, the preparation by the non-IP JC students has improved but LINEARLY. The preparation by the IP schools has improved EXPOTENTIALLY. With the differences in improving rates, are the non-IP JC students able to compete head-to-toes with IP students eventually ? Yet to be witnessed!
Hmmm...........What type of era we are generating now? :yikes: -
Melodies:
My answers already posted in my earlier post.
Hi Melodies,BeContented:
[quote=\"Melodies\"]
CayennePepper
R u willing to give up the few top JCs and settle with second tier JC?
R u willing to support the idea of competing based on PSLE results for top IP schools?
R u willing to support the idea of getting rid of DSA for GEP domains?
R u willing to support that everyone should compete based on the same ground?
己所不欲，勿施于人
On your queries to CayennePepper, I have one more to add on.
- R u willing to give up your DC's affiliation to a good secondary school and compete based on the same ground ie. PSLE score as other non-affiliated students?
From what I understand, affiliated students tend to be given 10-20 advantage points.
IMO, DSA definitely has its purpose. Just look at LimJeck, the Maths Genius. I'm sure glad he DSA and got recognized for his talent.
As for GEP, there are some really good ones and the fact that DSA is not a guaranteed process for them, it goes to show that schools do not accept blindly. GEP kids are just like any other kids....they have ups and downs.
While calling for the scrapping of DSA, would one impose the same standard on their own DC?
Just look around, many die die must go to primary schools with affiliation, and many appealing after PSLE etc.
Going by notion that DSA kids who didn't score the COP should give up.....those who didn't score should not be appealing either. Affiliation should be removed too.
As for the rest of the comments, we have also discussed extensively in the various pages and leading to no way.[/quote]Leading to no way? But yet I still see the same things being mentioned repeatedly. Sorry I must have missed it. Did you say you will give up your affiliation?
The calls to be fair, the calls to scrap DSA.
Shouldn't that start right from ground level to be really fair?
Why is it targeted at GEP? At IP? 'O' levels should also be included.
Affiliation benefits certain groups right from P1. If score well, can go top schools. If not well enough, can always fall back to affiliated Sec Schs.
Those above average kids who did well are also deprived of a place in the 'O' level track in certain schools simply because of the advantage points given for affiliated students.
Like mentioned earlier, disallow appealing too.
Never hit the required COP? Give up the seat to more deserving kids - DSA or affiliation, same rule should apply. -
concern2:
I have seen many real life cases. To my horror, they are at disadvantage!
:scared: Eye-opener..Melodies:
Ironically, our A level students have no advantage over those from other countries who learned LOT when come to the admission selection for those oversea universities though they have scored A in HOT questions which are equivalent to deg/master level! :slapshead:
When come to local/oversea scholarship application or Oversea University application, those have 7-8 A in A level with very minimum CCA/Sports/leadership activities (other than academics), they may still lose out to those 4 A but involved in and did well in various CCA/Sports/leadership activities.
See, what is the point? :slapshead:
Please let them get a life! -
Melodies:
An era where it is almost impossible to compete with or even join the cohort of the HOTties at the various stress points in a child's educational career. Buy a house near to a HOTties school like NYPS? Go GEP test and hope to join GEP provided don't lose out to older kids? Didn't make it nevermind, just draw boxes and LOTs and hope to get A* and PSLE to score > 260 while GEP learn HOT algebra and already CO to their choice schools! Don't go IP nevermind, make sure take highest mother's tongue so that get 3 points out of 6 subjects at O level to join HOT programs. :scratchhead: Haven't even reached uni, weather is so hot got burnt out already. Welcome to the new era.In short,
Learning HOT skills in GEP program versus learning LOT/NOT skills in mainstreams
Geppers handle PSLE exams better than mainstreamers as there are some HOT questions in PSLE papers. As such, majority of students who have scored 270 and above in NYPS are GEPpers! Spilled-over of HOT materials from GEP to mainstreams does help mainstreams to do well in PSLE. As a result, about 47% P6 pupils in NYPS scored 250 and above.
Learning HOT skills in IP program versus learning LOT/NOT skills in O level
IP students are well trained with HOT skills and hence they are well prepared for A level as compared to their counterparts in non-IP schools. In A level, some of the concepts tested in the papers are equivalent to those in university, and even up in Masters! Students from non-IP schools would have to prepare to take some set back and do catch-up works in order to stand head-to-toe with the IP students as for now.
However, the preparation by the non-IP JC students has improved but LINEARLY. The preparation by the IP schools has improved EXPOTENTIALLY. With the differences in improving rates, are the non-IP JC students able to compete head-to-toes with IP students eventually ? Yet to be witnessed!
Hmmm...........What type of era we are generating now? :yikes:
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Melodies:
If we trust that the GEP test conducted at P3 is an accurate test, then we would have to agree that the GEPpers are generally brighter. Aren't brighter kids supposed to do better in the exam? So it is not surprising that the GEPpers can handle the HOT questions in PSLE papers, and score well in PSLE.In short,
Learning HOT skills in GEP program versus learning LOT/NOT skills in mainstreams
Geppers handle PSLE exams better than mainstreamers as there are some HOT questions in PSLE papers. As such, majority of students who have scored 270 and above in NYPS are GEPpers! Spilled-over of HOT materials from GEP to mainstreams does help mainstreams to do well in PSLE. As a result, about 47% P6 pupils in NYPS scored 250 and above.
Learning HOT skills in IP program versus learning LOT/NOT skills in O level
IP students are well trained with HOT skills and hence they are well prepared for A level as compared to their counterparts in non-IP schools. In A level, some of the concepts tested in the papers are equivalent to those in university, and even up in Masters! Students from non-IP schools would have to prepare to take some set back and do catch-up works in order to stand head-to-toe with the IP students as for now.
Hmmm...........What type of era we are generating now? :yikes:
I do not know what HOT skills are taught in GEP program. From the posts shared by the GEPpers parents in the forum, I would say that there is none targeted at solving HOT questions in PSLE. I could be wrong. Do you know of any? Maybe you can enlighten us. But if you can't, then I would say that your blue heading can be quite misleading.
Similarly, can you also enlighten us what are the HOT skills learned in the IP program? -
him4mixer:
Please refer to earlier posts by him4mixer for more infoHi,
I'm a lecturer in one of the top JCs for many years and would like to share my observations and experiences about 3 general groups of students under me:
1. IP students. There is a positive correlation between good PSLE results and good A level results. Majority of them who scored at >260 will tend to score at least 5 As in the 'A' level. The IP program in general teaches them important skills (like critical thinking, hypothesis testing, and data analysis) that traditional schools do not (due to preparation for O level exams). These (higher order thinking) HOT skills enable them to handle the A level exams better and thus it is no surprise these students will tend to perform better. However it is NOT 100% that once these high PSLE scorers are in IP they will perform well. I've GEP students who failed JC1 promos twice and was forced to leave school. Numerous too are those who finished JC2 without getting an A level cert.
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Kiasu parents are really hard to please:
PS: the following statements are not necessarily true, but they are what have been discussed in KSP recently:
1. HOT skills only taught in GEP, IP, but not mainstream schools? - not fair!
2. Too many HOT type of questions in mainstream school exams and PSLE? - not fair!
3. PSLE too much of a do-or-die exam? - Not good!
4. DSA for academic domain? - Not fair! and what's the point?
5. One-size-fits-all education? - Not good!
6. Streaming? - Not good!
7. Too much emphasis on academic? - Not good!
8. DSA into top schools through sports and other non-academic talents? - Not good!
9. Uni admission and scholarship award to students with less As but better CCA and leadership record? - What's the point of making the students work so hard?
......the list goes on!
How? how? how? :scratchhead:
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