All About ABRSM Grades & Support
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Hi,
may I know your suggestion on singing of sharp or flat notes?
As when you sing say, a D major, \" Re Mi Fa# So La Ti Do# Re \", the correct pitch of, say, \"Do #\" will be always hidden/distorted by the pronunciation of \"Do\" and \"Sharp\".sunflower:
Yes, you can try that out to see if she can hear what she reads. Moving on, since you do not know music, you might like to use some simple songs that you’ve heard before but she has not, to practise clapping the rhythm and singing out the notes first before she sight-reads the piece on the piano. Get her to sing using letter names (ie. a, b, g, e etc) in the correct rhythm, that will strengthen her sense of pitch.
Ooooh... I got to go and try this out. Thanks. Only problem is I wouldn't know whether she is correct cause I know nuts about reading notes. I think I will start with pieces she might have heard somewhere else, like on the TV or radio and see if she can identify them from just reading the notes. She tends to be more interested in music she has heard before.pirate:
[quote=\"sunflower\"]Can your dd hear the notes when she sees them on the page? Try to get her to hum/sing the music first before listening to the CD, and ensure that her rhythm is correct. She may clap the rhythm first before doing so. Hopefully this will help her to not depend too much on the CD. BTW, many people with very good ears tend to use the CD short cut method to learn new pieces.
But I already let her know very early on that there can be many versions (or interpretations) of the same piece of music.
It’ll be more difficult to coach your dd if you don’t know music. Not sure what kind of setting is your dd’s piano lesson, or whether you’re allowed to sit in. You might like to raise your concerns with the piano teacher as he/she would know your dd’s ability, strength and weaknesses and so be in a better position to customize training programme and advise accordingly.[/quote] -
Hi,
The same here for my child, the accuracy to identify the single could be very high, be it black or white keys. However, when it comes to melody / short phrases, only 3~4 notes of the beginning part can be recalled, when the melody is replayed, maybe 3~4 notes of the other part can be recalled while the first 3~4 notes cannot be recalled and joined with the newly recognized notes.
Our teacher said it is not simply due to poor memory , but she also has not developed any effective way to solve this yet.
Any comments on improving one this?pirate:
Sorry, OT a bit. What is a \"good ear\"? My 6yo dd can tell me correctly without looking which white key I pressed anywhere on the piano 99% of the time, and the black keys maybe more than 75%. Is that a good ear? Can they forget this if they don't touch the piano for some time?sunflower:
Yes, agree that there are people like that. Most likely either Suzuki trained, have perfect pitch or very good relative pitch. Some are born with very good ear and can play by ear very well. But for a normal average kid, having good sight-reading skills will not only shorten the time to learn new pieces, but will also enhance the student's musical experience, and make playing the instrument an enjoyment.
My dd seems to be more interested in and be able to learn a piece much faster after hearing it on a cd. How to get kids like that to do more sight reading and not rely on their ears so much? -
kathyh:
We usually sing first note of D major as Do, ie. movable Do.Hi,
may I know your suggestion on singing of sharp or flat notes?
As when you sing say, a D major, \" Re Mi Fa# So La Ti Do# Re \", the correct pitch of, say, \"Do #\" will be always hidden/distorted by the pronunciation of \"Do\" and \"Sharp\". -
Ah! Cannot!
-
kathyh:
The reason why many students find it hard to recall melody from memory is because they perceive the melody as a sequence of notes and not as musical 'words'. For example, CDEFG can be treated as a 'musical word' that consists of a 5 rising scale notes. What I do with my students is giving them exercises involving random orders of these 'musical words' that they have to sing or play back to me.Hi,
The same here for my child, the accuracy to identify the single could be very high, be it black or white keys. However, when it comes to melody / short phrases, only 3~4 notes of the beginning part can be recalled, when the melody is replayed, maybe 3~4 notes of the other part can be recalled while the first 3~4 notes cannot be recalled and joined with the newly recognized notes.
Our teacher said it is not simply due to poor memory , but she also has not developed any effective way to solve this yet.
Any comments on improving one this?
So for example, you can make up an exercises consisting of these 'musical words'
In C Major:
Word 1: 12345 i.e. CDEFG
Word 2: 123 i.e. CE
Word 3: 1323 i.e CEDE
Word 4: 171 i.e. CBC
etc
Then can get the students to sing the solfege or play out the these words on the piano first. And then afterwards I will play a random melody made up of these 'words' in various types of rhythms. The student will sing back in solfege or play back the melody on the piano. This exercise can be transposed to other keys as well. -
waiyean:
Singing via solfege uses movable “Do” and this usually helps develop very good relative pitch. It’s rather difficult for people with perfect pitch to sing in solfege because of the way they associate the notes to the sounds they hear inside their head. Just sing the letter names, i.e. the exact notes as seen written on the staff.
We usually sing first note of D major as Do, ie. movable Do.kathyh:
Hi,
may I know your suggestion on singing of sharp or flat notes?
As when you sing say, a D major, \" Re Mi Fa# So La Ti Do# Re \", the correct pitch of, say, \"Do #\" will be always hidden/distorted by the pronunciation of \"Do\" and \"Sharp\". -
sunflower:
Singing via solfege uses movable “Do” and this usually helps develop very good relative pitch. It’s rather difficult for people with perfect pitch to sing in solfege because of the way they associate the notes to the sounds they hear inside their head. Just sing the letter names, i.e. the exact notes as seen written on the staff.
For people with perfect pitch, is it important to also train on relative pitch? I would think that relative pitching will be useful for transposition, etc. -
waiyean:
If main instrument is piano, relative pitch is optional. For transposition, a stronger grasp of theory and chords are more important. But more or less can get by if have good perfect pitch. Though it is still recommended to learn relative pitching to express music better i.e. students with only perfect pitch often have more difficulties feeling the tension and release of pitches and harmony.sunflower:
Singing via solfege uses movable “Do” and this usually helps develop very good relative pitch. It’s rather difficult for people with perfect pitch to sing in solfege because of the way they associate the notes to the sounds they hear inside their head. Just sing the letter names, i.e. the exact notes as seen written on the staff.
For people with perfect pitch, is it important to also train on relative pitch? I would think that relative pitching will be useful for transposition, etc.
If main instrument is not piano, relative pitch may be necessary. Let's say for example I play violin and I need to perform a sonata with a piano accompaniment. Let's say the piano is quite out of tune and not in concert pitch. If I only have perfect pitch I will have problem adjusting to the piano. Same problem may occur also if I play in an orchestra and the conductor request for non concert pitch tuning. -
Dreamaurora:
If main instrument is piano, relative pitch is optional. For transposition, a stronger grasp of theory and chords are more important. But more or less can get by if have good perfect pitch. Though it is still recommended to learn relative pitching to express music better i.e. students with only perfect pitch often have more difficulties feeling the tension and release of pitches and harmony.waiyean:
[quote=\"sunflower\"]Singing via solfege uses movable “Do” and this usually helps develop very good relative pitch. It’s rather difficult for people with perfect pitch to sing in solfege because of the way they associate the notes to the sounds they hear inside their head. Just sing the letter names, i.e. the exact notes as seen written on the staff.
For people with perfect pitch, is it important to also train on relative pitch? I would think that relative pitching will be useful for transposition, etc.
If main instrument is not piano, relative pitch may be necessary. Let's say for example I play violin and I need to perform a sonata with a piano accompaniment. Let's say the piano is quite out of tune and not in concert pitch. If I only have perfect pitch I will have problem adjusting to the piano. Same problem may occur also if I play in an orchestra and the conductor request for non concert pitch tuning.[/quote]Yup! People with perfect pitch has difficulty adjusting to \"out of tune\" performances. They will \"see\" sharps and flats all over the place on the \"score\" in the head! Some really can get headache. It's a \"curse\" and \"blessing\" at the same time.
I'm really not sure whether it's possible for people with perfect pitch to \"train\" for relative pitch. It seems that they don’t really feel the necessity for it as they could already hear everything they see and vice versa. It's usually those without this gift that need to depend on relative pitch to help them in the various aspects of musical learning. -
sunflower:
Singing via solfege uses movable “Do” and this usually helps develop very good relative pitch. It’s rather difficult for people with perfect pitch to sing in solfege because of the way they associate the notes to the sounds they hear inside their head. Just sing the letter names, i.e. the exact notes as seen written on the staff.[/quote]
We usually sing first note of D major as Do, ie. movable Do.waiyean:
[quote=\"kathyh\"]Hi,
may I know your suggestion on singing of sharp or flat notes?
As when you sing say, a D major, \" Re Mi Fa# So La Ti Do# Re \", the correct pitch of, say, \"Do #\" will be always hidden/distorted by the pronunciation of \"Do\" and \"Sharp\".
So we sing Fa sharp or Fa when come across black key notes?
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