Pilot or Stewardess?
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Nebbermind:
:? Am I getting confused with the way US works? Can clarify?concern2:
It will be interesting to see when opposition MPs be made a Minister.
When that happens, they will not be called 'Opposition' liao!
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Dora1:
The workers will not increase even if the airline charges extra from customers, it is the company who had all the extra $$ while the workers slogged with the miserable pay.I think the situation now is not about pilot or air stewardess. Its the airline that is relentless asking money from the passengers, and making the plane exceed its carrying capacity just to make more money. The arguement is that if we don't let in more passengers, the airline will bankrupt, everyone will be grounded. And all these are happening while the pilots and some of the air stewardess are paying themselves ever increasing salary, and there is a special area for staff and business/1st class passengers in the plane where they have luxury access to the facilities and space. The number of economy class passengers are increasing at an alarming speed. And the passengers continue to pay higher and higher fees.
However, at this rate, the plane will come crashing down very soon. And in the midst of all, some passengers decided to come out and start serving to minimize their pain...... -
3Boys:
There's a different between wanting ordinary pple in parliament and a parliament made up entirely of ordinary pple only..
The people want ordinary people in parliament, crafting ordinary policies, to help the ordinary people. Nothing wrong with that, we'll have an ordinary leadership and be an ordinary country, with ordinary schools, ordinary workforce, ordinary healthcare, and ordinary salaries.
Surely you can discern that rite..? :evil: -
Nebbermind:
Got the following about UK (source: http://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/principal/government-opposition/)concern2:
It will be interesting to see when opposition MPs be made a Minister.
When that happens, they will not be called 'Opposition' liao!
How about Singapore?
Prime Minister
The Prime Minister is an MP and head of the government. The leader of the party that wins the most seats in a general election is appointed Prime Minister by the Queen. The current Prime Minister is Rt Hon David Cameron MP, leader of the Conservative Party.
The Prime Minister is officially responsible for choosing the other members of the government.
The Prime Minister used to be able to set the date for the next General Election. Since the passing of the Fixed Term Parliament Act 2011 this is no longer the case.
The Prime Minister answers questions every Wednesday in the House of Commons from midday to 12.30pm. Questions can come from any MP and on any subject.
Leader of the Opposition
The leader of the largest opposition party is the Leader of the Official Opposition, which for the Commons and Lords is currently the Labour Party.
Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP, leader of the Labour party, is the current Leader of the Official Opposition. This role commands an additional salary to the parliamentary salary received as an MP. The Leader of the Official Opposition picks a 'Shadow Cabinet' to follow the work of government departments.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon is the Leader of the Opposition in the House of Lords.
Cabinet
The Cabinet consists of a maximum of twenty-two paid government ministers chosen by the Prime Minister. They can be Members of either House of Parliament. The Cabinet develop government policies and some members head government departments.
Shadow Cabinet
The Shadow Cabinet consists of members from the main opposition party in the House of Commons and Lords, currently the Labour party. Its role is to examine the work of each government department and develop policies in their specific areas. -
Dora1:
Ya lor.. haven't upgrade engine wanna carry more pple... greed.....
However, at this rate, the plane will come crashing down very soon. -
limlim:
Pray tell, what mechanism do we have in place, if all people want in THEIR constituency, is an MP that looks after their needs primarily, to prevent the above scenario from happening. The PAP may be a team, but the electoral battles are on a csc or GRC (which many PAP-haters hate) basis only.
There's a different between wanting ordinary pple in parliament and a parliament made up entirely of ordinary pple only..3Boys:
The people want ordinary people in parliament, crafting ordinary policies, to help the ordinary people. Nothing wrong with that, we'll have an ordinary leadership and be an ordinary country, with ordinary schools, ordinary workforce, ordinary healthcare, and ordinary salaries.
Surely you can discern that rite..? :evil:
So you accept some 'elite' type intellectuals, who may be technically excellent, but maybe have no feel for the ground, are a necessity in g'ment?
What will you do to prevent the debate about whether a person is fit for service in government from ALWAYS degenerating into whether someone is too smart or too clever, or from an 'elite' background, and therefore unelectable? -
All these are part of our political growing pains towards a government that reflects a variety of concerns and with checks and balances in place. At one level it may seem to be just about petty concerns, but there is a bigger picture there and it is not just about economics. The ongoing debate and sentiments on both side of the fence is part of this process and actually healthy. But to reduce it to just PAP-haters, or ah-lian’s gap toothed smile, or self serving citizens is a bit too simplistic.
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3Boys:
See post on other thread.
And where does the ground crew who make sure the planes do not fall out of the sky fit into your analogy? Whoever the pilots are, the ministers are definitely not on the plane.pirate:
[quote=\"3Boys\"]You forget that although our system is Westminster in appearance, the actual execution is far different from how it is in the UK and other jurisdictions. Our ministers are far more into policy details than is typical for politicians elsewhere.
The ministers are MOST definitely the pilots in our context, quite often they outlast the perm secs even.
And pray tell, why are they not on the plane?[/quote]Because this is a horrible analogy. It takes more than the pilots to make a plane fly. The citizens, to which the analogy is passengers in a plane, do not do nothing and sit around all day waiting to be served by flight attendants.
A properly maintained plane can fly with just the pilots. No country can run with just the ministers, no matter how well maintained the system is.
A better analogy is an airline. Not a :censored: airplane. Everybody works to keep the plane in the air. But not everyone gets to ride on the plane.
There are pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, ground crew, cleaners, ticketing, marketing etc. And there are the people who put all of these together into a working organization, ie. the executives. The ministers are the executives, not the pilots. The executives are not usually on the planes. An airline where all the senior executives are pilots will run into problems. -
pirate:
Because this is a horrible analogy. It takes more than the pilots to make a plane fly. The citizens, to which the analogy is passengers in a plane, do not do nothing and sit around all day waiting to be served by flight attendants.
See post on other thread.3Boys:
[quote=\"pirate\"]
And where does the ground crew who make sure the planes do not fall out of the sky fit into your analogy? Whoever the pilots are, the ministers are definitely not on the plane.
And pray tell, why are they not on the plane?
A properly maintained plane can fly with just the pilots. No country can run with just the ministers, no matter how well maintained the system is.
A better analogy is an airline. Not a :censored: airplane. Everybody works to keep the plane in the air. But not everyone gets to ride on the plane.
There are pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, ground crew, cleaners, ticketing, marketing etc. And there are the people who put all of these together into a working organization, ie. the executives. The ministers are the executives, not the pilots. The executives are not usually on the planes. An airline where all the senior executives are pilots will run into problems.[/quote]Sorry, the airplane is an excellent analogy, when taken in my original context and not expanded in the way that you wish, which then dilutes the point.
The discussion at hand is about what people desire in an MP. Yes?
The criticism being levelled at KPK, is that perhaps he is too detached, unlikely to be able to 'service' his constituency.
The point being made is that there are leaders, and there are servers, yes?
Hence the point about pilots and stewardesses.
Of course I know there is a whole crew to run the show, including ground staff, ticketing agents.
BUT, to the point, what are we looking for in our MPs? Leaders (pilots), or servers (stewardesses). That is how the analogy is circumscribed, and that is how it is meant to be discussed. Would you deny that our ministers and PM set the course on policies? They make the input to the controls, and the ailerons, engines, rudder (the civil service) responds to execute the commands. See, I can play that angle too.
You then stretch it to say that, 'oh they aren't even on the plane'. In YOUR analogy of the country being an AIRLINE, they are not on the plane, in MY analogy of the country being a PLANE, they are very much so. Geddit?
The airline analogy is a straw man, which you are attacking with gusto, with great effect. Unfortunately with all straw men attacks, its ultimately misguided.
Sorry, my title, my analogy, my constructs......you are free to start an airline thread if you wish, with your own rules. -
Well, if you want to simplify it like that, then let me simplify it this way.
If the pilot and all the first class passengers have parachutes, then I can understand why the passengers in economy class would want a co-pilot from economy class without a parachute.
And if the pilot keeps telling the passengers in economy class that they are not entitled to caviar and champagne when the cabin has depressurized somewhat and what they want are oxygen masks just like the ones in first class, I imagine they have good reasons to be unhappy with the pilot. All the more so if the reason for not lowering the oxygen masks in economy class is just to save a few bucks.
And all the talk about how pretty the stewardess is completely misses the point.
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