Punggol East By-Election coming ? MP steps down
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3Boys:
Haha! It's hilarious isn't it.Irrelevant:
[quote=\"JannettLee\"]The above ABSD appears to be policy designed to collect extra revenue, at the expense of local property owners, and in the process also benefiting foreigners. The ABSD policy will hit private property prices, where many Singaporeans hold either 1 HDB flat and 1 or more private properties, where more than 90% of Singaporeans own their properties. Given the draconian much lower Loan-to-valuation and loan tenure, many citizens may need to sell to foreigners (since many locals will be priced out), especially the high-end private properties where mostly only foreigners can afford, and foreigners will depress their offer price since they will deduct the ABSD amount from their offer price. So, isn't the ABSD cooling measures hit the local Singaporeans hard while benefiting the govt and foreigners?
Do you seriously believe all the spiel that you have written?
Your arguments are so flawed that I don't know where to begin and I shall only address a small portion.
According to some studies only 29% of Singaporeans own more than 1 property. http://sbr.com.sg/residential-property/news/nearly-3-in-10-singaporeans-own-more-one-house
So how many% of Singaporeans will be affected? If you do not wish to pay the ABSD, what will you do? You reckon foreign buyers are happy to pay 15%+3% stamp duty? Property speculators like yourself are precisely the target of these cooling measures and rightly so. Otherwise, when the property prices come crashing down, folks like yourself will KPKB and say that it's the government fault!
'Deduct absd from offer price' hahaha! The whole point is to drive down prices! Foreigner can 'deduct', but locals cannot izzit? If you are a property investor, looking to offload at a high price, this is a bad time for you, of course!
Yes, drive the speculators out. Prime example of people griping only about things that affect them directly, without considering the larger picture of what housing is about in Singapore and helping out the first time buyers.
My advice to Singaporeans looking to buy a second property? Stay clear of the market, and save your absd. Don't let the garment earn it, if according to Jannette, that was the whole intention.
Unbelievable![/quote]We should look at the numbers and what industry consultants say about this.
According to an article from BT, since the first round of ABSD, the % of private property buyers dropped to 6.3% in 2012 from 17.6% in 2011. With the higher ABSD rates recently announced, the property consultants expect foreigners' share of private home purchases to decline further in first half of this year.
Yes, life is not easy. Let's not make it feel harder by thinking that every govt policy is out to victimize local Singaporeans. -
Based on a bank’s research report, the peak for foreigners was 30% in 2007. PRs purchases had been constant at 14% of new sales over the past few years.
Local Singaporeans account for the bulk of recent sales.
First-time buyers are spared of the recent controls but given the strong balance sheets and cashflows of the developers and the tight buffer due to high construction costs, it remains to be seen whether prices will be cut.
Looking at the sales volume at recent launches, it does not appear that the locals are priced out.
There will be professional property investors (local as well as foreign) who trade the market. To them, ABSD is just another cost and in so far as their view is that the future price will exceed the current price, they are indifferent to ABSD. -
JannettLee:
The foreigners are not coming in to buy in any numbers. The softest segment of the market is the upmarket segment in the central districts and district 15. The strongest demand is for developer sales in the suburbs. Why? Because one only needs to plonk down 20% and then wait for the developers to build. Most of the buyers don't even know what they are buying. Wait till they get their keys then they will know. :evil:See that is the problem with most people as they perceived that this is a bubble and they didn't know that it's a genuine demand! What do you expect the property demand when government allow almost 100K foreigners to come in every year now? Now you know why some people can be a property investor but some can't. You need to have foresight to make money :imcool:
Don't just take the face value of any policies!
As I said, these cooling measures are killing off all marginalized singaporean. Private property is going to be out of reach for most singaporean by looking at the trend.
It's none of my business la and just let people see from another angles... My offspring are well taken off anyway!
Private resale market of completed units is not particularly strong.
The market is now perceived as genuine demand when it is in fact a bubble. If it is genuine demand, the restrictions on financing for 2nd and subsequent properties will have no impact on the market.
Oh. And do you have any idea how many Singaporeans out there are able to plonk down cash on a 3rd, 4th or 5th property right now? Foresight is buying that investment property in 2009, not 2012.
But it's all cool. :imcool: Believe what you want. There is no shortage of investors who make a killing off marginal investors with no holding power. -
Private resale market of completed units in D10 is even lower than the suburbs.
Lots of people waiting for the right levels. -
With respect to your statement:
\"The govt is trying to make sure that those who NEED a property can get it at a reasonable price. \"
That sounds real weird indeed! Those who need a first property and is cheap and affordable must have been looking at a HDB flat.
Otherwise, are you implying that those who need a affordable property must be a private property? Is it the govt's job to enable everybody or majority to be able to afford a private property? If so, how about allow majority to own a bungalow by making bungalows cheap? :yikes:
As we can see, the govt does not seem to be very focused on making that HDB flats available cheap enough and fast enough. Otherwise how do you explain that instead of being able to solve that HDB flats problem yet, they have so much time to brainstorm and think of coming out with ABSD etc cooling measures which are mainly targeted at the private property market? They seems to be focused on a segment of the property market that affects 20% of the singaporeans (since about 20% singaporeans own private properties) vs trying to solve the housing segment that caters for the majority of the people who own or are trying to get cheap affordable housing (i.e. HDB flats).
As to your statement:
\"In my very simplistic mind, ABSD is govt's way for taking money from the rich and affluent and also foreigners. If some local bloke who cannot really afford it want to stretch his/her finances that is his/her perogative.\"
If what you said is the govt's real intention, why not just tax all foreigners 80% of their income and tax all people earning >$1m 80% tax rate so that they have even more money to help the poor (which definitely will collect much much more revenue than ABSD)? :rotflmao:JannettLee:
See that is the problem with most people as they perceived that this is a bubble and they didn't know that it's a genuine demand! What do you expect the property demand when government allow almost 100K foreigners to come in every year now? Now you know why some people can be a property investor but some can't. You need to have foresight to make money :imcool:
I hate the ABSD.. but at this moment I believe and trust the judgement of the govt.limlim:
[quote=\"Irrelevant\"]
So how many% of Singaporeans will be affected? If you do not wish to pay the ABSD, what will you do? You reckon foreign buyers are happy to pay 15%+3% stamp duty? Property speculators like yourself are precisely the target of these cooling measures and rightly so. Otherwise, when the property prices come crashing down, folks like yourself will KPKB and say that it's the government fault!
It is better than kpkb when the bubble burst.. if it burst lah.. if not, then later kpkb abt the govt on the ABSD.. :evil: :evil:
Don't just take the face value of any policies!
As I said, these cooling measures are killing off all marginalized singaporean. Private property is going to be out of reach for most singaporean by looking at the trend.
It's none of my business la and just let people see from another angles... My offspring are well taken off anyway![/quote]Funz:
The govt is trying to make sure that those who NEED a property can get it at a reasonable price. Those who WANT a 2nd/more property will have pay more. And rightfully so that only those who CAN afford a 2nd/more property without having to stretch their finances venture into such investments.
In my very simplistic mind, ABSD is govt's way for taking money from the rich and affluent and also foreigners. If some local bloke who cannot really afford it want to stretch his/her finances that is his/her perogative. -
Indeed, I am actually the one that have thought so deeply about the largest picture, apparently much more so than the govt, that is why I know that they should instead be focusing on solving the over-priced HDB flats problems that affects majority of Singaporeans by:
1) Make new HDB flats cheap
2) Make new HDB flats available quickly within 1-1.5 years
3) Make resale HDB flats cheap, by re-instating a previous policy where people buying private properties must sell their HDB flats within 6 months.
4) Ban all rental of HDB flats. Owners must stay in the HDB flats.
I believe the above would be welcomed by majority of singaporeans looking for affordable housing both in terms of new HDB flats and resale HDB flats. Public properties are heavily subsidized by govt and hence should be reserved for residents' own consumption, and not to milk for profit via rental.Irrelevant:
Do you seriously believe all the spiel that you have written?JannettLee:
The above ABSD appears to be policy designed to collect extra revenue, at the expense of local property owners, and in the process also benefiting foreigners. The ABSD policy will hit private property prices, where many Singaporeans hold either 1 HDB flat and 1 or more private properties, where more than 90% of Singaporeans own their properties. Given the draconian much lower Loan-to-valuation and loan tenure, many citizens may need to sell to foreigners (since many locals will be priced out), especially the high-end private properties where mostly only foreigners can afford, and foreigners will depress their offer price since they will deduct the ABSD amount from their offer price. So, isn't the ABSD cooling measures hit the local Singaporeans hard while benefiting the govt and foreigners?
Your arguments are so flawed that I don't know where to begin and I shall only address a small portion.
According to some studies only 29% of Singaporeans own more than 1 property. http://sbr.com.sg/residential-property/news/nearly-3-in-10-singaporeans-own-more-one-house
So how many% of Singaporeans will be affected? If you do not wish to pay the ABSD, what will you do? You reckon foreign buyers are happy to pay 15%+3% stamp duty? Property speculators like yourself are precisely the target of these cooling measures and rightly so. Otherwise, when the property prices come crashing down, folks like yourself will KPKB and say that it's the government fault!3Boys:
Haha! It's hilarious isn't it.
'Deduct absd from offer price' hahaha! The whole point is to drive down prices! Foreigner can 'deduct', but locals cannot izzit? If you are a property investor, looking to offload at a high price, this is a bad time for you, of course!
Yes, drive the speculators out. Prime example of people griping only about things that affect them directly, without considering the larger picture of what housing is about in Singapore and helping out the first time buyers.
My advice to Singaporeans looking to buy a second property? Stay clear of the market, and save your absd. Don't let the garment earn it, if according to Jannette, that was the whole intention.
Unbelievable! -
The latest cooling measures involving lower loan-to-valuation and much higher cash downpayment indeed causes more people to be marginalized even if they can afford to buy now. The reason is very simple, I learnt this from another forum which I will copy and paste here and I believe the writer of the below has great foresight indeed and has suggested a better solution with no hidden agenda than what the govt/MND has come out with:
(the latest cooling measures) they force many more property buyers/owners to become marginal owners/buyers because they end up with less cash on hand! This is a fact! This shows that you are just not a season investor. Let me put it simpler to you:
1) You buy a property for $1m. You have $500k. You pay $200k, loan $800k (i.e 80% LTV), hold cash $300k. Your $300k CASH can last you for a long time without rental, regardless of amount of loan instalment (even if you spread the loan out for only 15 years and have super high loan instalment!). You are not a marginal owner.
2) You buy a property for $1m. You have $500k. You are forced to pay $500k and can only loan $500k (i.e. 50% LTV). You end up with $0 cash on hand and you immediately become very very marginal owner! No rental only you go fly kite regardless of amount of loan instalment (even if you spread loan over 50 years to have lower loan instalment also useless!). Sell your property cheap cheap to foreigners!
Now, you are saying govt has no choice? That is stupid reply.
I can tell you, if I am them and I genuinely want to rid out margin buyer, I say can still can loan 80%, but please get a bank letter stating that you have liquid assets (or cash) equivalent to 20% of the value of the property you are buying and the liquid asset has been with the bank/brokerage/(whatever institution) for at least 1 year (to avoid last minute transfer for show only). So my suggested policy will still rid out marginal buyers without disadvantaging Singaporeans via lower LTV right? What ABSD? For milking revenue rather than genuine cooling measure? Isn't my \"cooling measure\" more citizens-friendly and make most property owners happy to vote for me? You see, because my suggested \"cooling measure\" policy has no hidden agenda, not trying to milk extra revenue via ABSD, and do not disadvantage local property owners, make them instantly become marginal property owners/buyers...JannettLee:
See that is the problem with most people as they perceived that this is a bubble and they didn't know that it's a genuine demand! What do you expect the property demand when government allow almost 100K foreigners to come in every year now? Now you know why some people can be a property investor but some can't. You need to have foresight to make money :imcool:
I hate the ABSD.. but at this moment I believe and trust the judgement of the govt.limlim:
[quote=\"Irrelevant\"]
So how many% of Singaporeans will be affected? If you do not wish to pay the ABSD, what will you do? You reckon foreign buyers are happy to pay 15%+3% stamp duty? Property speculators like yourself are precisely the target of these cooling measures and rightly so. Otherwise, when the property prices come crashing down, folks like yourself will KPKB and say that it's the government fault!
It is better than kpkb when the bubble burst.. if it burst lah.. if not, then later kpkb abt the govt on the ABSD.. :evil: :evil:
Don't just take the face value of any policies!
As I said, these cooling measures are killing off all marginalized singaporean. Private property is going to be out of reach for most singaporean by looking at the trend.
It's none of my business la and just let people see from another angles... My offspring are well taken off anyway![/quote]3Boys:
Marginalized? The whole point is to strongly discourage those on borderline to plough their money into a bubble!
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JannettLee:
The point is to prevent the $1M dollar house from becoming a $1.2M house in a year from now.The latest cooling measures involving lower loan-to-valuation and much higher cash downpayment indeed causes more people to be marginalized even if they can afford to buy now. The reason is very simple, I learnt this from another forum which I will copy and paste here and I believe the writer of the below has great foresight indeed and has suggested a better solution with no hidden agenda than what the govt/MND has come out with:
(the latest cooling measures) they force many more property buyers/owners to become marginal owners/buyers because they end up with less cash on hand! This is a fact! This shows that you are just not a season investor. Let me put it simpler to you:
1) You buy a property for $1m. You have $500k. You pay $200k, loan $800k (i.e 80% LTV), hold cash $300k. Your $300k CASH can last you for a long time without rental, regardless of amount of loan instalment (even if you spread the loan out for only 15 years and have super high loan instalment!). You are not a marginal owner.
2) You buy a property for $1m. You have $500k. You are forced to pay $500k and can only loan $500k (i.e. 50% LTV). You end up with $0 cash on hand and you immediately become very very marginal owner! No rental only you go fly kite regardless of amount of loan instalment (even if you spread loan over 50 years to have lower loan instalment also useless!). Sell your property cheap cheap to foreigners!
Now, you are saying govt has no choice? That is stupid reply.
I can tell you, if I am them and I genuinely want to rid out margin buyer, I say can still can loan 80%, but please get a bank letter stating that you have liquid assets (or cash) equivalent to 20% of the value of the property you are buying and the liquid asset has been with the bank/brokerage/(whatever institution) for at least 1 year (to avoid last minute transfer for show only). So my suggested policy will still rid out marginal buyers without disadvantaging Singaporeans via lower LTV right? What ABSD? For milking revenue rather than genuine cooling measure? Isn't my \"cooling measure\" more citizens-friendly and make most property owners happy to vote for me? You see, because my suggested \"cooling measure\" policy has no hidden agenda, not trying to milk extra revenue via ABSD, and do not disadvantage local property owners, make them instantly become marginal property owners/buyers...
Why don't you get it??
How on earth are locals penalised? If they are buying for their own stay and dispose of their first property, they are not subject to the ABSD, are they?
It's not as if on if forced into buying a second property. If one has a place to stay or if one only wishes to upgrade, then the ABSD does not apply. The point is to discourage people in investing in property right now as the investment sentiment is too hot and there is a risk of a bubble, and that there may be people who enter in at LTV at 80% who may get burnt if the market turns.
The garment is telling the people, DON'T be that guy that spends 500k to buy a $1m house and leave yourself with $0! Don't do it! Don't buy! Then you don't have to sell at a loss? You are making is sound as if people are being FORCED to part with their money. If I decide to sit tight and watch prices slide, have i paid the garment a single cent of ABSD? Have I sold at any loss to any foreigner? Who knows if that $1m house might only be 800k in 1 years time? Good right, for first time buyers with no house to sell?
It is that simple, really. Even the opposition politicians did not hammer on this, why on earth do you think you are anywhere close to the truth?
Please link us back to the other forum where you got that post so we can all go over there and tell him what a dumb post it was. -
dont know how this thread strayed so off-topic going to property curbs and such le :scratchhead: .
As far as the curbs are concerned, the govt is doing the right thing. People are just barking up the wrong tree. When the market was at low levels in 2008 , you dont see govt restricting anyone from buying and all.
Why at these current levels, anyone still want to speculate or invest is beyond me. I have a roof over my head now, why should I consider buying another one at these CURRENT levels ?
Dont chase, most property trends are cyclic. Its all about timing, likewise the curbs will come when the trend is near the highs ( remember the curbs in 96 ? and the subsequent crash in late 97 and 98 ? )
Got too much money, go ahead. Most smart money already in the market since 2007/2008 and even 2010. soem are even selling now, why kpkb about the restrictions to buy now ?
Trying to save u guys, yet make noise about the life buoys/jackets too tight. :siao: -
You see, many singaporeans are sick, very sick. They expect the govt to spoon feed them, take care of them, nanny them, save them from taking risks, etc etc...
No wonder Korea has Samsung, LG, Hyundai, etc etc, but Singapore has what singaporean global corporations the like of Korea's Samsung etc that singaporeans can be proud of? See, singaporeans expect govt to take care of them and nanny them and they don't dare to take risks.....
Strparent:
dont know how this thread strayed so off-topic going to property curbs and such le :scratchhead: .
As far as the curbs are concerned, the govt is doing the right thing. People are just barking up the wrong tree. When the market was at low levels in 2008 , you dont see govt restricting anyone from buying and all.
Why at these current levels, anyone still want to speculate or invest is beyond me. I have a roof over my head now, why should I consider buying another one at these CURRENT levels ?
Dont chase, most property trends are cyclic. Its all about timing, likewise the curbs will come when the trend is near the highs ( remember the curbs in 96 ? and the subsequent crash in late 97 and 98 ? )
Got too much money, go ahead. Most smart money already in the market since 2007/2008 and even 2010. soem are even selling now, why kpkb about the restrictions to buy now ?
Trying to save u guys, yet make noise about the life buoys/jackets too tight. :siao:
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