To migrate or not?
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On one hand, we castigate foreigners for being opportunistic (in using Singapore as a stepping stone). On the other hand, we encourage Singaporeans to be opportunistic too?
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Irrelevant:
On one hand, we castigate foreigners for being opportunistic (in using Singapore as a stepping stone). On the other hand, we encourage Singaporeans to be opportunistic too?
These are people who have the ability and means to migrate. They are discussing options. Options open to the people who used Singapore as stepping stone. Most in Singapore have no choice. Yes I am encouraged by talks of migration despite the horror stories of those \"who were there and back\". But in reality many locals like me who received a local education as opposed to those who studied in UK, Auz, NZ, US, with kids in normal schools and not top schools with overseas uni potential and with little resources with HDB and not D10,11,12 don't have the options open to us. So right now I can only feel depressed at my inability to be opportunistic. :sad: -
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Irrelevant:
On one hand, we castigate foreigners for being opportunistic (in using Singapore as a stepping stone). On the other hand, we encourage Singaporeans to be opportunistic too?
Agree with you. :sad: -
sinoboy:
These are people who have the ability and means to migrate. They are discussing options. Options open to the people who used Singapore as stepping stone. Most in Singapore have no choice. Yes I am encouraged by talks of migration despite the horror stories of those \"who were there and back\". But in reality many locals like me who received a local education as opposed to those who studied in UK, Auz, NZ, US, with kids in normal schools and not top schools with overseas uni potential and with little resources with HDB and not D10,11,12 don't have the options open to us. So right now I can only feel depressed at my inability to be opportunistic. :sad:
Sure you can. There is a scheme in the US where you join the military, serve a couple of years in places like Iraq or Afghanistan, and they give you US citizenship. Interested?
Or you can just overstay in the US. Spend a few years there working as undocumented menial labour, and wait for the amnesty they grant illegal immigrants every few years. Making a baby while you are there, who automatically becomes a US citizen, helps. They really do not like deporting the parents of US citizens over there.
Or just become a qualified nurse. Or get one of your kids to become one. Don't need to go to top school in D10, 11, 12 one. Poly can already. He/she can sponsor you after a few years there.
Yeah. I am being sarcastic. But the point is there are always options. What makes people think that foreigners who emigrate to Singapore have it easy? There are always sacrifices. -
U will find SCs who are happy to have migrated and those who have found life difficult. But if u have been a born and bred SC I think migrating is not easy because the lifestyle in Singapore is very different. if u are a person who is impatient to get things fixed such as air-con breakdown, or want hi-speed Internet access, or enjoy going for late night supper, or want to walk around neighborhood in shorts and t-shirt (for girls I mean), or want to take public transport without fear of being mugged, or want children to go to schools where there is a decent education system, or do not want to wait 2 weeks to see poly clinic doctor or 3 months for surgery, or do not want to look around you when standing at ATM, or want to go to 7-11 at 3.00 am, or watch a midnight show and walk out of cinema not bothered about being mugged, or can drive and park in town without paying $8-10 per hour, or can afford to eat out at nice restaurant at least 1-2 times a month and not 1-2times a year, can buy coffee and kaya toast at $3.00 instead of $7.00, can take home 90% of pay home instead of 60% only, can afford to go on cheap holidays to M'sia, Thailand, Indonesia etc. or spend holiday at home.
Let me think about it :? :scratchhead: -
Just relax:
Well, it's all relative, isn't it?U will find SCs who are happy to have migrated and those who have found life difficult. But if u have been a born and bred SC I think migrating is not easy because the lifestyle in Singapore is very different. if u are a person who is impatient to get things fixed such as air-con breakdown, or want hi-speed Internet access, or enjoy going for late night supper, or want to walk around neighborhood in shorts and t-shirt (for girls I mean), or want to take public transport without fear of being mugged, or want children to go to schools where there is a decent education system, or do not want to wait 2 weeks to see poly clinic doctor or 3 months for surgery, or do not want to look around you when standing at ATM, or want to go to 7-11 at 3.00 am, or watch a midnight show and walk out of cinema not bothered about being mugged, or can drive and park in town without paying $8-10 per hour, or can afford to eat out at nice restaurant at least 1-2 times a month and not 1-2times a year, can buy coffee and kaya toast at $3.00 instead of $7.00, can take home 90% of pay home instead of 60% only, can afford to go on cheap holidays to M'sia, Thailand, Indonesia etc. or spend holiday at home.
Let me think about it :? :scratchhead:There are pros and cons to everything, and life is what you make of it. I think that those who cling to their own ways of doing things and refuse to change and adapt will find it hard, but if you embrace the changes and go with the flow, life will be much easier. I was born in Singapore, but came to NZ when I was a kid. We've met a lot of Singaporean families over the years, some who are lovely, and some who constantly extol Singapore's greatness and how the Singapore way of doing things is the right way, and I often just think, 'Well, why are you here?' There are only a handful in that category, but they are around.
I think Singapore is a nice enough country, but for me personally, I prefer a country that's not boiling hot 365 days a year, filled to the brim with people, where you can look out your window and see open fields and greenery and lots of trees, where children go to school at 8.30 and finish at 3, spend about half an hour on homework (if there is any) and then go outside to the park, to ride bikes, and just to play with friends until dinnertime, and then play some more until it's bedtime. I prefer an education system where the kids don't necessarily learn as much or at as high a level, but have more fun and enjoy learning a lot more along the way. I also eat out on average once a week, sometimes more, despite having a hefty mortgage, but I also grow my own fruits and veggies. (Just harvested some courgettes today, actually. They look good!) I enjoy being able to take (and being encouraged to to do so by my company) my 20 days of annual leave a year and going on long trips. Yes, NZ isn't as convenient as Asia for short overseas jaunts, but there is plenty to do without leaving the country.
And, yes, the shops close at 5 and you can't go shopping till 11 (as is the most common complaint I've heard), but after a full day at work, all I want to do is have a quiet night at home
And, yes, public transport sucks here. It truly is dreadful. But I guess you can't have everything. -
It’s not easy to uproot and leave. Even the thought of selling my flat and staying elsewhere is not easy.
The safety here is the main reason why we do not consider migrating…big house, cheap cars overseas is no pull factor. I dread to think of reading news about young kids being gunned down by some crazy fella and then turned the gun on himself. Or else how drugs are so easily available.
Here, impatient citizens like us get things done FAST. Yes, medical costs are rising but still have option to go for subsidized treatment via polyclinic way…just don’t complain about long waiting time. Can’t possibly have the best of both worlds. Hubby does wish he can work 4 days a week…yes, lesser pay but get to enjoy a quality weekend with kids. -
Attolia,
i agree wf ur POV. It’ll be to harvest ur own vege,isn’t it?
We travel to australia twice per yr n we still not bored of australia.
Agree with u that it is not easy to find food after 5pm.A plate of fried rice costs abt AUS$15.Parking in a shopping centre can easily costs AUS$15 per hour.
My hb is applying for AUS PR,he’ll hv to sit for english test in a few months time.We know the chances of getting the PR is difficult(coz he is just an engineer n without a job in Aus).But we still give it a try coz SG life is too stressful for us.
We’ve thought of migrating to NZ coz of the recent natural disaster(flood,bush fire,etc) happen in australia.But hb said it would be tougher to get a job in NZ knowing that most new zealander r now moving to australia to look for job.
we don’t hv much time to waste coz my son will turn 11 in 2yrs time.financial security is not prob to us coz we could rent out our property.The only concern i’ve is if we retain our SG citizenship to secure our property,he has to come bk to serve NS. -
These are choices for individual. Others opinions are just for our resources before deciding. BUT each person conditions and ability to adapt in a new place is different. Just consider well before making your decision.
I just would like to share, if we compare Singapore food prices with Indonesian, some of the food in Indonesia is more expensive. Eg. Mc D, the same meal cost more in Jakarta than in Singapore, and the quality of the Mc D there is really.......unbelievable (Considering they are a well known international brand). There are more to compare.....
Lots of people envy Singaporeans cause maybe they do not know the difficulties that some Singaporeans deal with but I live here and I knew the difficulties that they are facing, BUT I still envy you all. I feel that I am blessed that I have the opportunity living here though I did not get any priviledge from gov. Other than housing and car, almost everything here is easier to deal with and some are cheaper too.
Sometimes we see the grass of our neighbour is greener but when you look closer......gotcha..... It's made of 'plastic'
Cheers......... -
I notice the children here r really soooo obsess wf computer/hp games.Almost everyhere we go,we see children as young as 4,playing ipad/hp. My son himself likes to play angry bird games but we set certain time limit for him,try to bring him out to play sports or exploring the nature.
U don’t see this scenario in OZ.Children there enjoy feeding birds,cycling,running in the park,probably bcoz of their colder weather n more natural parks,open field n seaside to run ard. -
Attolia:
This does sound wonderful.
Well, it's all relative, isn't it?Just relax:
U will find SCs who are happy to have migrated and those who have found life difficult. But if u have been a born and bred SC I think migrating is not easy because the lifestyle in Singapore is very different. if u are a person who is impatient to get things fixed such as air-con breakdown, or want hi-speed Internet access, or enjoy going for late night supper, or want to walk around neighborhood in shorts and t-shirt (for girls I mean), or want to take public transport without fear of being mugged, or want children to go to schools where there is a decent education system, or do not want to wait 2 weeks to see poly clinic doctor or 3 months for surgery, or do not want to look around you when standing at ATM, or want to go to 7-11 at 3.00 am, or watch a midnight show and walk out of cinema not bothered about being mugged, or can drive and park in town without paying $8-10 per hour, or can afford to eat out at nice restaurant at least 1-2 times a month and not 1-2times a year, can buy coffee and kaya toast at $3.00 instead of $7.00, can take home 90% of pay home instead of 60% only, can afford to go on cheap holidays to M'sia, Thailand, Indonesia etc. or spend holiday at home.
Let me think about it :? :scratchhead:There are pros and cons to everything, and life is what you make of it. I think that those who cling to their own ways of doing things and refuse to change and adapt will find it hard, but if you embrace the changes and go with the flow, life will be much easier. I was born in Singapore, but came to NZ when I was a kid. We've met a lot of Singaporean families over the years, some who are lovely, and some who constantly extol Singapore's greatness and how the Singapore way of doing things is the right way, and I often just think, 'Well, why are you here?' There are only a handful in that category, but they are around.
I think Singapore is a nice enough country, but for me personally, I prefer a country that's not boiling hot 365 days a year, filled to the brim with people, where you can look out your window and see open fields and greenery and lots of trees, where children go to school at 8.30 and finish at 3, spend about half an hour on homework (if there is any) and then go outside to the park, to ride bikes, and just to play with friends until dinnertime, and then play some more until it's bedtime. I prefer an education system where the kids don't necessarily learn as much or at as high a level, but have more fun and enjoy learning a lot more along the way. I also eat out on average once a week, sometimes more, despite having a hefty mortgage, but I also grow my own fruits and veggies. (Just harvested some courgettes today, actually. They look good!) I enjoy being able to take (and being encouraged to to do so by my company) my 20 days of annual leave a year and going on long trips. Yes, NZ isn't as convenient as Asia for short overseas jaunts, but there is plenty to do without leaving the country.
And, yes, the shops close at 5 and you can't go shopping till 11 (as is the most common complaint I've heard), but after a full day at work, all I want to do is have a quiet night at home
And, yes, public transport sucks here. It truly is dreadful. But I guess you can't have everything.
I guess, that's the reality Singapore will have to face. Those who don't mind slower growth, higher taxes in return for more welfare, a more relaxed education system -- will leave.
If Singapore's leaders believe that there is no route for Sgp's survival except to head upwards in terms of GDP growth, then those who don't share this vision, will leave.
I don't deny that certain things are harsh realities for Singapore. Progress or lose relevance. Work hard, or stagnate. In other countries, there is land, there is space. Of course there are trade-offs. A slower pace of life means less take-home pay, and higher chances of unemployment.
But if one can be content with a very simple life, then perhaps leaving is the best choice.
Of course there are other considerations like aged parents and all, but perhaps some can be convinced to come along... -
vinegar:
Attolia,
i agree wf ur POV. It'll be to harvest ur own vege,isn't it?
We travel to australia twice per yr n we still not bored of australia.
Agree with u that it is not easy to find food after 5pm.A plate of fried rice costs abt AUS$15.Parking in a shopping centre can easily costs AUS$15 per hour.
My hb is applying for AUS PR,he'll hv to sit for english test in a few months time.We know the chances of getting the PR is difficult(coz he is just an engineer n without a job in Aus).But we still give it a try coz SG life is too stressful for us.
We've thought of migrating to NZ coz of the recent natural disaster(flood,bush fire,etc) happen in australia.But hb said it would be tougher to get a job in NZ knowing that most new zealander r now moving to australia to look for job.
we don't hv much time to waste coz my son will turn 11 in 2yrs time.financial security is not prob to us coz we could rent out our property.The only concern i've is if we retain our SG citizenship to secure our property,he has to come bk to serve NS.
Hmm, I'm not sure if things have changed since we left Singapore 20 years ago, but in our case, my brother and I got our nz citizenship after the requisite five years here (he was 10 at the time of gaining citizenship) but my parents still hold their SG passports (but probably giving it up this year or next so they have access to their CPF money) and my brother didn't have to serve NS. Parents just wrote a deferment letter (or possibly a few letters) until he formally gave up his SG passport. So maybe it's fine for you guys to retain your passports and only your son has to give up his and he wouldn't have to serve NS?
I do agree that Australia is a more attractive option right now. Kiwis are flocking to Australia in unprecedented numbers because the wages are higher there, and unemployment in nz is relatively high at the moment - I think it's ~7%. There are jobs around, but I'm not sure how easy it is to get them. There's probably a lot of competition. Also, Auckland, in particular, is experiencing what everyone's calling a 'housing crisis' at the moment. Basically, nz doesn't have a capital gains tax, which at the moment is resulting in rich Chinese nationals coming over here and snapping up land and houses for investment (apparently some are buying up houses 30 at a time through auctions without even setting foot in the country) and it's pushing up house prices massively for the average person. I've heard from friends that house prices in Australia, particularly Sydney, are also quite expensive, so
But having said all that, I love nz. Life has been good to us here. Education is not so stressful (or not at all stressfu) until you're about 15/16 and it's fun. I LOVED primary school, and when I hear my relatives in Singapore talking about how stressed out my cousins are in primary school and how they're doing hours and hours and hours of homework every day and studying hours and hours for exams when they're 11 or 12 and have no time to play, I just think that's so sad, cos... time enough to study hard when you're in high school or university. Primary school is for playing. lol. -
I just read this article before stumbling onto this thread.
Best places to be born in 2013
http://sg.finance.yahoo.com/photos/best-places-to-be-born-in-2013-1359523947-slideshow/
Not only Singapore is in the Top 10 but at no 6 spot even!
I think most will say 'Wow, sure or not'??? :siao:
What do you think? -
coolbreeze:
I think Singapore has a lot going for her compared to other countries.I just read this article before stumbling onto this thread.
Best places to be born in 2013
http://sg.finance.yahoo.com/photos/best-places-to-be-born-in-2013-1359523947-slideshow/
Not only Singapore is in the Top 10 but at no 6 spot even!
I think most will say 'Wow, sure or not'??? :siao:
What do you think?
Infant mortality rate is low.
Crime rate is low
proximity to medical help is high
food and water is safe
weather is mild
no major natural calamities
you get all the convenience within your neighbourhood
Decent education at low cost for all
That is what I can think of, off the cuff. -
vinegar:
I was in Oz late Dec for hols and was reading their local papers. A number of newspaper articles have raised the issue of Oz kids becoming overweight and lethargic and not so interested in sports. In fact Oz did very badly in London Olympics and a lot of soul searching that not producing enough young Oz sportspeople because Oz kids losing interest in outdoor activities.I notice the children here r really soooo obsess wf computer/hp games.Almost everyhere we go,we see children as young as 4,playing ipad/hp. My son himself likes to play angry bird games but we set certain time limit for him,try to bring him out to play sports or exploring the nature.
U don't see this scenario in OZ.Children there enjoy feeding birds,cycling,running in the park,probably bcoz of their colder weather n more natural parks,open field n seaside to run ard.
Of course another MAJOR issue is the rapid rise in skin cancer in Oz because of thinner ozone layer over Oz. Many of my Oz friends put on so much sun tan lotion just to walk outside from house to car to office!!! But they are truly afraid of skin cancer!!! -
coolbreeze:
Yes, I read that too...was like :?I just read this article before stumbling onto this thread.
Best places to be born in 2013
http://sg.finance.yahoo.com/photos/best-places-to-be-born-in-2013-1359523947-slideshow/
Not only Singapore is in the Top 10 but at no 6 spot even!
I think most will say 'Wow, sure or not'??? :siao:
What do you think? -
vinegar:
Which part of Australia are you looking at?,I notice the children here r really soooo obsess wf computer/hp games.Almost everyhere we go,we see children as young as 4,playing ipad/hp. My son himself likes to play angry bird games but we set certain time limit for him,try to bring him out to play sports or exploring the nature.
U don't see this scenario in OZ.Children there enjoy feeding birds,cycling,running in the park,probably bcoz of their colder weather n more natural parks,open field n seaside to run ard. -
My sister emigrated to Melbourne some 20 years ago. Her hubby is a Singaporean and his whole family has been living in Oz for many years. For the last 10 years, husband and wife have been running a small bakery. It is enough for them to buy a $1 million house with many acres of land. Her two girls are now teenagers and one is working towards a medical degree.
My sister is diabetic. The state gives her a few thousand dollars a year to take care of the condition. She can use the money for dental or eye care. Her mother in law, who lives with them, was diagnosed with mild dementia in the last few years. A social work assistant drops by twice a week to take the mother-in-law out for a few hours of shopping at the nearby mall, at the state’s expense.
They work very hard to run the business but labour is an issue. They had their fair share of young Aussies who stole from them, closed the shop early and invited their friends over for a party. Making a police report did not seem to help. As older folks cost more to hire, they have to resort to hiring only students.
My brother-in-law has very traditional Asian beliefs. His 2 girls are pretty afraid of him. They are not allowed to have a facebook account nor to skip school for no good reason. Leave home at age 18? I don’t think my nieces would even dare to think of it.
As for the lack of hawker food, they are used to it now. My sister used to make her own hor fun, char siew, pandan cake and other local delicacies. Anyway, my brother in law said daily consumption of hawker food is bad for health, so they have no issue with it.
Just sharing my sister’s experience. -
Just to share, my close relation migrated to Oz with wife and 2 daughters. He and his wife had done their degrees in Oz b4 returning to SG to work and marry. They had their 2 DDs but unfortunately 1 DD needed special medical care. He tried his best to find the right sort of care in SG but after a few years decided to go to Oz as he knew would get the right sort of care and his wife had found a job there.
They live in a nice house with a pool and garden and a dog. Both DDs are doing well with 1 DD having her special needs well taken care of. He is happy because DD is looked after by the state and she has benefits and rights which a similar child and adult with a similar disability in SG will not get.
The trade off is that because of high taxes although both are professionals in Oz with Oz degrees, their disposable income is not high so they having little savings although their house would easily cost $8-10 million in SG and is a lovely and comfortable home with about 8,000 sq. ft of space.
He is happy but if had the chance after living in Oz for about 15 years in total, would have preferred SG.