Are you ready for 7 million people on tiny Singapore?
-
concern2:
:grphug: applause. Would be nice to have more such ksps. To be honest, it is human for parents wish their children better than what they had been through, especially if they had gone through a hard time. But, think about, those generations who had gone through the hardship made today's Singapore. If more locals don't mind to do those jobs, then no need Foreign immigration (FT or FW) , then no need 6.9 millions .
Whatever one craves, there is a cost. I don't mind if my boy decides to be a plumber one day if he finds it is the most productive thing to do for a living - esp. if there is a market shortage. It is an honest living. But he must still get a tertiary education. Education should not be about what he does for a living later on. Doesn't mean if he can be a plumber now, I will not push him to do well in his studies. Hence, I never like to give kids the idea that they must study hard now so next time can make more money. They are 2 different issues. JMHO. -
ruohoo97:
Yes, agree that we are not Superior than any of them but in reality and in the current context, though i do not have the numbers to substantiate this claim, there are certain jobs that some Singaporeans will turn away....
Why not, I grew up in the environment that taught me all honest jobs earn a living, all jobs are respectable. There are different skills but not highly or lowly; We are too easy to forget our forefathers came to Singapore as Ku Lis and many early immigrants from Asia to USA or Australia worked their way up from waiters, delivery men, etc. Now we might be seem better off than those FWs who take care our children, clean our toilets and building our homes and drive our bus and trains... but essentially, we are not Superior than any one of them.pirate:
I think we need to be careful when we say we have skilled workers who are willing to take up PMET jobs. There are many jobs that locals do not want to do or are unwilling to learn or acquire enough experience to do, that are strictly speaking not 'FW' jobs. At least, these are not jobs that us KSPs would want our children to do when they grow if we can help it. Examples include:
Nurses, mechanics, plumbers, electricians, welders, construction foremen, site clerks, cooks, heavy vehicle drivers, account clerks, frontline retail, service and hospitality staff, etc.
:sad: -
3Boys:
In general, I never agree with people who enjoy more than they can afford, idle more than they afford, eat/play more than they can afford, plan less than they can afford,screw up things more than they can afford and expect others to help them in the name of compassion when things start to backlash against their own prior mistakes. If one can make enough and save enough, he/she has all his own free-will to decide on any courses he prefered.
Working life-span matters too.WeiHan:
That is the point that I have been wondering about. Wouldn't decades of high economic growth allows most of our elders to have accumulate sufficient saving for their retirement? Why is there a need to say that 2 working adults are required to support 1 retired elders?
Adding to that, i believe nature goes through natural cycles. Economy will go through natural cycle of expansion and recession. Human artificial interventions to short circuit these natural cycles only kick the can further down the road and when the reckoning arrives, the backlash will be many times worse. This is best illustrated by the present money printing to kick the can down the road-an attempt to delay the unavoidable.
The same goes with population. I believe there is natural cycle. It goes through natural cycle of expansion, stagnation and even contraction base on complex response to macro environmental, economic and natural conditions. any attempt to short circuit this natural cycles only bring about greater backlash at a later date. By increasing population artificially, we are merely kicking the can down the road and someday down the road, the repercussion will show its ugly face.
Imagine, on average, an adult starts work at 25, and lives till 85.
In that 60 years span, can he say, I work 10 years, and live off savings for 50 years?
How about work 20 and retire for 40?
30/30?
40/20?
45/15?
50/10?
If you work for 40 years from age 25, you are 65 years old by the time you retire. If you work for 45 years, you will be 70.
Why would that be unreasonable? Can many of us say we will save enough in 40 years to survive on 20 years of no active income?
Who do we expect to pay our bills?
However, i do not know what is the concrete implication of government raising the official retirement age apart from the CPF drawing age. Like I say, many PMETs retrenched in their 40s are already finding it hard to get back a job. What is the point for the government raising retirement age and postulating theoretically while in reality many people in their 40s, 50s, 60s want to continue working but cannot find a job. -
sinoboy:
No offense but PSC is hardly the best scorership. Actually there are parents wanting their kids to singers, dancers, actors and providing them with drama training from young. But the parents either belong to the lower echelons of the society or wealthy but just not very academically inclined. Sing well may become another Gangnam Psy or yield an angmo husband you know. :rahrah:[/quote]Was sharing with my kids that just imagine if everyone is a doctor/ lawyer, probably these profession will no longer make so much $. Also while being a doctor is a noble job. Is it that great a job???? I wondered aloud. No work life balance and in cases like SARS, you probably put yourself at higher risk. Also, I think it's rather boring if your work place is a hospital??? It's not like a hotel and hospital are usually associated with negativities. So it doesn't matter if they don't become a doctor.WeiHan:
[quote=\"pirate\"]Heck, most of us KSPs don't even want our kids to become singers, dancers, actors, models, musicians or anything else on the front line of the entertainment industry...
Most parents want their children to become medical doctors or lawyers. if not , then a PSC scholarships is the best...More prestigious.
Over the weekends, we attended a music talent graduation event as well as an award ceremony. All speakers de-emphasize on academic excellence being the key thing. For the music event, the asst director shared that parents used to tell kids not to be a musician otherwise they cannot earn a living. But today, it's different as there are many possible livelihood if they want to pursue their passion in this area. Personally, I am open to the idea if ds tells me he wants to be a band conductor/ instructor, etc... We will support him if he really has passion in this area.
I guess as parents, we cannot hold \"narrow\" views when it comes to the kids' profession. My friend's Sec 2 didn't do well during PSLE and was posted to Normal (Acad). She had pinned hope on her boy since he was young (like all parents do). But what was obvious is that for her ds, he is good at cooking and he enjoys it. I won't be surprise if he decides to be a chef one day... Not bad right.... just imagine those famous food stall uncle who actually drive a big car and stay in a big house.... -
pirate:
The govt already come up with the answer mah.. Foreign \"talent\".
So how?
Based on the discussion in other forums, many do not oppose to having FT in these sectors. -
limlim:
Rationally Singaporeans may not oppose having FT in these sectors but emotionally, Singaporeans cannot accept them. Hence the opposition to foreign workers dorms in your backyard, the unhappiness of squeezing with them on MRT trains, the backlash against FT drivers who get involved in accidents (sometimes fatal ones). We want them to do our dirty work but we want them out of sight.
The govt already come up with the answer mah.. Foreign \"talent\".pirate:
So how?
Based on the discussion in other forums, many do not oppose to having FT in these sectors.
So how? -
limlim:
So they say. They seem to not like these FT on the MRT trains or in the HDB flats or in the malls or in the parks or taking their food orders or driving the buses or even talking amongst themselves.
The govt already come up with the answer mah.. Foreign \"talent\".pirate:
So how?
Based on the discussion in other forums, many do not oppose to having FT in these sectors. -
limlim:
Personally, I don't mind FT in some area (eg. construction, cleaner, etc...) I also don't mind some in service but it does get alarming if every shop you go, you think you are in another country or to the effect that all the NTUC local aunties are being replaced by F\"T\"... then I think that is really too much.
The govt already come up with the answer mah.. Foreign \"talent\".pirate:
So how?
Based on the discussion in other forums, many do not oppose to having FT in these sectors.
We do observed a resource crunch recently at various food places. Plates will pile up, etc... and there are only a few cleaners. The positive aspect is that we start to see local old folks taking up more of those job as compared to before where it's mainly done by F\"T\". Some of these old folks need a job and they probably didn't stand a chance earlier before the stricter control????
In the workplace, we have alot of FT. In my old co., locals are the minorities. Though we work harmoniously together as a team but I feel that some of these jobs don't actually need a FT. These are jobs that can be performed by our local graduates. So are our local graduates being deprived a chance due to that???? -
WeiHan:
In general, I never agree with people who enjoy more than they can afford, idle more than they afford, eat/play more than they can afford, plan less than they can afford,screw up things more than they can afford and expect others to help them in the name of compassion when things start to backlash against their own prior mistakes. If one can make enough and save enough, he/she has all his own free-will to decide on any courses he prefered.
Working life-span matters too.3Boys:
[quote=\"WeiHan\"]
That is the point that I have been wondering about. Wouldn't decades of high economic growth allows most of our elders to have accumulate sufficient saving for their retirement? Why is there a need to say that 2 working adults are required to support 1 retired elders?
Adding to that, i believe nature goes through natural cycles. Economy will go through natural cycle of expansion and recession. Human artificial interventions to short circuit these natural cycles only kick the can further down the road and when the reckoning arrives, the backlash will be many times worse. This is best illustrated by the present money printing to kick the can down the road-an attempt to delay the unavoidable.
The same goes with population. I believe there is natural cycle. It goes through natural cycle of expansion, stagnation and even contraction base on complex response to macro environmental, economic and natural conditions. any attempt to short circuit this natural cycles only bring about greater backlash at a later date. By increasing population artificially, we are merely kicking the can down the road and someday down the road, the repercussion will show its ugly face.
Imagine, on average, an adult starts work at 25, and lives till 85.
In that 60 years span, can he say, I work 10 years, and live off savings for 50 years?
How about work 20 and retire for 40?
30/30?
40/20?
45/15?
50/10?
If you work for 40 years from age 25, you are 65 years old by the time you retire. If you work for 45 years, you will be 70.
Why would that be unreasonable? Can many of us say we will save enough in 40 years to survive on 20 years of no active income?
Who do we expect to pay our bills?
However, i do not know what is the concrete implication of government raising the official retirement age apart from the CPF drawing age. Like I say, many PMETs retrenched in their 40s are already finding it hard to get back a job. What is the point for the government raising retirement age and postulating theoretically while in reality many people in their 40s, 50s, 60s want to continue working but cannot find a job.[/quote]I feel not enough is being done to help the \"unemployable\" to get a job and we had all this while taken the easy way out by bringing in foreigners.
Let me define the \"unemployable\"
1. Employers' prejudice
Some employers have a very narrow definition of who can or cannot do a certain job. I speak from experience.... I was in a position to interview and hire my own staff. It was difficult to hire entry level admin staff esp. when your company is small and salary isn't that attractive. We advertised without much success and decided to hire through a recruitment agency. They sent me the applicant's profile, she was young, had never worked in an office, was fat; she has medical conditions. I asked her to come down for an interview and was pleased with her attitude. My assistant MD who happened to see her immediately came to me and told me her looks put him off. I insisted on hiring her and she proved a capable worker. If I was not prepared to give her some on the job training and considered her medical condition as \"potential trouble\" the vacancy may be unfilled for many more months.
2. Employees' \"hindrances\"
a) attitude
b) personal hygiene
c) low-self esteem
d) image
e) interpersonal skills
(there should be more, but off-hand that's what I can think of)
Without some hand-holding and guidance, some people would not know their own \"hindrances\" or how to overcome these \"hindrances\". Maybe the government could put in some resources to reach out to these people. Perhaps have some schemes to encourage them to work cum train for a start in stats board with mentors. Tap this pool of people, equip them and help them to stand on their feet.
I used to see this man who diligently goes to the community centre to pick up the Chinese papers and scour its classified job ads. I've seen him doing that for one whole year! I wondered if he went beyond jotting down the numbers ect. Did he make any calls? Did he went for any interviews? Did he get any offers? Did he reject any offers? I have no answer. -
goldfish2013:
All these did not happen overnight. They are the results of policies - not wanting to say whether they are good or bad at this point - just what we sow is what we reap.Several foreign firms prepare to leave S'pore
Labour tightening measures have hit them hard; letter conveys concerns to minister
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/premium/top-stories/several-foreign-firms-prepare-leave-spore-20130205
I'm sadden to learn that we are not that great after all, and our mere existence is depends very much on the big fish, which what matter most to them is in their own interest and will leave immediately when not enough small fish to feed them.
To them, business is just business and nothing personal.
It seem that all these years we are not growing to be a more sustainable nation, and in fact we become more and more rely on them to boost our economy.
Actually, what can we do?
We have no natural resources and our land is so small that very soon it will become a dense concrete jungle with only tiny green spots, known as park, scattering here and there. And when that happened, we will have no more construction industries to contribute to our economy.
Now, all I can hope for is that my children can grow up to be strong and independence, and more successful in life than me.
\"We have no natural resources and our land is so small\", but we can afford to accommodate so much concrete land and such a high population.
Isn't this a matter of choice?
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