Are you ready for 7 million people on tiny Singapore?
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concern2:
Concern2,
:hi5: But hor, next time who would want to marry my boy if he is a plumber? :faint: See, I don't mind if he's a plumber and he gets to spend more time with family. I also don't mind them wanting to get married earlier and have children at a younger age, and I can be a grandparent at an age which I can be mobile enough to give a helping hand if needed...only thing is would kiasuparents want their DD to marry a plumber?
Maybe you got foresight... For all you know, maybe a plumber is paid more than a doctor next time. As without the plumber, maybe it will be :imconstipated: -
Dora1:
There are two sides to the problem. In one corner, fresh grads fr local Unis are taking a longer time to find jobs. But in the other corner, I've heard HR ppl complaining the local grads are fussy, demanding, and demand high pay. One HR friend fr a local bank said a new hire refused to do OT, then mom came in and told dc to leave the job n look for another :yikes:
I totally agree with you. 10+ years ago, when I was a fresh graduate, I had no problems look for a job even though I have no experience. The companies were will to give us a chance and train us. Now, in the stat board that I am in, there are 10 fresh uni grads who have technical degrees fr NUS and NTU, doing temp data entry and admin work. They said they can't find work, cos the companies all don't want to hire fresh graduates. My friends who are still in the industry say that's because for the same pay, they can hire FTs with abt 3-5 years experience. So its credit to the HR if they can get the max out of the same $$. However, these FTs bring their very different work culture with them. When their numbers are small, it is easier to mould them to adapt to the SG culture. But now we have 80% of the depts from the same country, the working culture is no longer SG. I shared previously that there are MNCs who are considering to stop further investments in SG because they find that SG now has 1st world cost of doing business, but 3rd world work attitude. And on top of that, the young SG grads cannot find work and are doing stg totally unrelated. a few years later, companies will continue to lament that they need to hire more FTs because no SCs with relevant experience and expertise. They were never given the chance in the 1st place, how to have the experience?
If the companies cannot hire FTs so freely like during my time, I'm sure they will be more willing to hire fresh graduates.
Another in F&B sector said locals don't want to work after 5 & wouldn't work weekends. Even give generous OT allowance oso dont want. If not for FW, where got shops open at nite and weekends? Only can eat at home at nite and weekends. -
Dora1:
I totally agree with you. 10+ years ago, when I was a fresh graduate, I had no problems look for a job even though I have no experience. The companies were will to give us a chance and train us. Now, in the stat board that I am in, there are 10 fresh uni grads who have technical degrees fr NUS and NTU, doing temp data entry and admin work. They said they can't find work, cos the companies all don't want to hire fresh graduates. My friends who are still in the industry say that's because for the same pay, they can hire FTs with abt 3-5 years experience.
Maybe you should ask those 10 fresh uni grads why they never take the initiative to offer to take a lower pay to undergo on-the-job training doing the front-line operations work of their desired prospective employers? Why they rather go do data-entry and low level admin work in a stat board? How they expect to get relevant experience if they not willing to get their hands dirty or their shirts sweaty or scolded by unreasonable customers? -
Dora1:
Now, in the stat board that I am in, there are 10 fresh uni grads who have technical degrees fr NUS and NTU, doing temp data entry and admin work. They said they can't find work, cos the companies all don't want to hire fresh graduates.
this will be what some of our kids will face in the future. the problem can only get worst with useless degrees in hands. Though useless to some, almost all kids will still try to fight till heads broken for a degree.
Singapore will be like Japan, Korea, Taiwan, etc in the near future where many grads cannot find a job. Too many grads and not enough jobs or jobs taken by you-know-who.
wanna increase CPF withdrawal age regardless of whether people know how to plan or dont know how to plan - one size doesnt fit all.
wanna increase population to 7 million to 'create jobs' - try to one size fit all again.
there will always be evils in these policies and we just have to wait and see who are the lucky and unlucky ones (unlucky ones refer to those who go thru much in their academic journey and only to realise no firms wants to employ him). -
Laura02:
I think these are 2 different issues. I know most locals don't want F&B jobs, and quite frankly, I don't have issues with them hiring foreigners for these jobs. I also don't deny that there are local grads that are very fussy. But those that I encounter here certainly do not fit the fussy bill, they are doing very mundane data entry jobs for low pay, and sometimes they work till 7pm (ok not exactly very long hours, but for that miserable pay, it's quite long!)
There are two sides to the problem. In one corner, fresh grads fr local Unis are taking a longer time to find jobs. But in the other corner, I've heard HR ppl complaining the local grads are fussy, demanding, and demand high pay. One HR friend fr a local bank said a new hire refused to do OT, then mom came in and told dc to leave the job n look for another :yikes:Dora1:
I totally agree with you. 10+ years ago, when I was a fresh graduate, I had no problems look for a job even though I have no experience. The companies were will to give us a chance and train us. Now, in the stat board that I am in, there are 10 fresh uni grads who have technical degrees fr NUS and NTU, doing temp data entry and admin work. They said they can't find work, cos the companies all don't want to hire fresh graduates. My friends who are still in the industry say that's because for the same pay, they can hire FTs with abt 3-5 years experience. So its credit to the HR if they can get the max out of the same $$. However, these FTs bring their very different work culture with them. When their numbers are small, it is easier to mould them to adapt to the SG culture. But now we have 80% of the depts from the same country, the working culture is no longer SG. I shared previously that there are MNCs who are considering to stop further investments in SG because they find that SG now has 1st world cost of doing business, but 3rd world work attitude. And on top of that, the young SG grads cannot find work and are doing stg totally unrelated. a few years later, companies will continue to lament that they need to hire more FTs because no SCs with relevant experience and expertise. They were never given the chance in the 1st place, how to have the experience?
If the companies cannot hire FTs so freely like during my time, I'm sure they will be more willing to hire fresh graduates.
Another in F&B sector said locals don't want to work after 5 & wouldn't work weekends. Even give generous OT allowance oso dont want. If not for FW, where got shops open at nite and weekends? Only can eat at home at nite and weekends.
And, the jobs that I am referring to are the so-called high value added jobs that the gov are promoting to singaporeans, saying that these are the ones where the foreigners are here to create job opportunities for us. But if the young ones are shut out now, no wonder in 2030 we need so many FTs, because there will be no experienced middle management SCs by then! -
pirate:
For many of them. they were not even given the opportunity to go for interviews, not to talk about counter offering the pay. From my friends of the industry, fresh grads have no chance at all, which is very different from my experience in the industry 10+ years ago as a fresh grad.Dora1:
I totally agree with you. 10+ years ago, when I was a fresh graduate, I had no problems look for a job even though I have no experience. The companies were will to give us a chance and train us. Now, in the stat board that I am in, there are 10 fresh uni grads who have technical degrees fr NUS and NTU, doing temp data entry and admin work. They said they can't find work, cos the companies all don't want to hire fresh graduates. My friends who are still in the industry say that's because for the same pay, they can hire FTs with abt 3-5 years experience.
Maybe you should ask those 10 fresh uni grads why they never take the initiative to offer to take a lower pay to undergo on-the-job training doing the front-line operations work of their desired prospective employers? Why they rather go do data-entry and low level admin work in a stat board? How they expect to get relevant experience if they not willing to get their hands dirty or their shirts sweaty or scolded by unreasonable customers?
These grads are here in the stat board because we are still remotely related to the industry. They still hope to go back to the industry some day, and this is the closest to experience they can get. They told me many of their friends are now in insurance or housing agents or teachers, which is totally unrelated to the industry cos they have given up looking. These young people who are trained using taxpayers money are lost to the industry forever. -
Dora1:
Well, if he can earn a decent pay, own a flat, I'm sure there will be people who are willing to marry him. I think the crux of the problem is the super low wages. Plumbers, carpenters, mechanics are also technical people who deserve a decent pay. If they can earn a decent pay like say, and IT professional does, then why not? I won't mind my DD marry a plumber, it's the pay!!![/quote]Agree it's the pay. Be it plumber, stall owner, hairdressor as long as drive big car and live in big house who cares? Top hairdressers like Lavid Gan can command very high pay you know!
:hi5: But hor, next time who would want to marry my boy if he is a plumber? :faint: See, I don't mind if he's a plumber and he gets to spend more time with family. I also don't mind them wanting to get married earlier and have children at a younger age, and I can be a grandparent at an age which I can be mobile enough to give a helping hand if needed...only thing is would kiasuparents want their DD to marry a plumber?concern2:
[quote=\"ruohoo97\"]
:grphug: applause. Would be nice to have more such ksps. To be honest, it is human for parents wish their children better than what they had been through, especially if they had gone through a hard time. But, think about, those generations who had gone through the hardship made today's Singapore. If more locals don't mind to do those jobs, then no need Foreign immigration (FT or FW) , then no need 6.9 millions .
But parents cannot expect a pulmber boy to bring home a highly educated presentable non-ah lian non-ah soh OL executive lah. A lot of mothers this one cannot that one no good. They should look at their own son first. But consolation is that with 6.9 million people, more choices are made available.
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pirate:
I think this also got to do with how children nowadays are brought up. If as a parent we keep emphasizing our kids to study hard and get a cushy office job, obviously our children will think twice before accepting lower pay or mundane jobs. Because doing so will cause them to 'lose face'.Dora1:
I totally agree with you. 10+ years ago, when I was a fresh graduate, I had no problems look for a job even though I have no experience. The companies were will to give us a chance and train us. Now, in the stat board that I am in, there are 10 fresh uni grads who have technical degrees fr NUS and NTU, doing temp data entry and admin work. They said they can't find work, cos the companies all don't want to hire fresh graduates. My friends who are still in the industry say that's because for the same pay, they can hire FTs with abt 3-5 years experience.
Maybe you should ask those 10 fresh uni grads why they never take the initiative to offer to take a lower pay to undergo on-the-job training doing the front-line operations work of their desired prospective employers? Why they rather go do data-entry and low level admin work in a stat board? How they expect to get relevant experience if they not willing to get their hands dirty or their shirts sweaty or scolded by unreasonable customers?
I am really fascinated by how people in this island view these jobs. When I watch sitcoms from USA, I notice that even the blue collar workers are portrayed very favourably e.g. that plumber hunk from Desperate Housewives. I once asked my angmor friend and really he said that back in his country the social stigma associated with the blue collar jobs is far less than Singapore. I hope one day we can reach a point where all jobs are treated with respect and we all can be proud of whatever jobs our kids partake. -
Dora1:
For many of them. they were not even given the opportunity to go for interviews, not to talk about counter offering the pay.
Always read about a high % of grads from xxx uni can get a job within x months, from another uni within y months, at average $x etc.
But this doesnt seem to reflect the experiences we have on the grounds.
I went to a childcare career fair before once when I kpo while in suntec. I spoke to people there. There are women in their 40s (I met two), having about 20 years of experiences working in legal firms, looking at switching jobs paying at around $2K to be trainee preschool teachers (actual reasons of switch I am not sure but both spoke well. By their number of years of working experience, anytime pay should be around the $7K region). Then there are biomed fresh grads, also looking at being trained to be preschool teachers.
So, even if high level of employment, just exactly what are the jobs, whether relevant or not relevant, that each is having? Or we must be damn happi already if we ever have a job, regardless of what it is? -
Dora1:
I wonder how many of them actually wrote in their application letter, \"I know I am a fresh graduate with no relevant experience. However, I am eager to learn on the job. I would be pleased to be given an opportunity to start at the factory floor on a non-graduate trainee's allowance instead of graduate pay.\" Bet you that would get them at least an interview somewhere for no other reason than sheer initiative.For many of them. they were not even given the opportunity to go for interviews, not to talk about counter offering the pay. From my friends of the industry, fresh grads have no chance at all, which is very different from my experience in the industry 10+ years ago as a fresh grad.
These grads are here in the stat board because we are still remotely related to the industry. They still hope to go back to the industry some day, and this is the closest to experience they can get. They told me many of their friends are now in insurance or housing agents or teachers, which is totally unrelated to the industry cos they have given up looking. These young people who are trained using taxpayers money are lost to the industry forever.
And that is the problem with some of our young fresh graduates.
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