Are you ready for 7 million people on tiny Singapore?
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limlim:
No, I am talking about LTVP+ and PR. Not a :censored: LTVP. What's the logic? Before giving birth to Singaporean babies qualified to work in Singapore. After giving birth to Singaporean babies not qualified? I want to know the logic.
Be patient..3Boys:
But to what end???
You're talking abt LTVP rite? Maybe not more than 2 years.. Again, I believe LTVP is not that difficult to get. Not sure where those horror stories come from..
Statistics..?
Statistics doesn't show the the full story. Such as background of the applicant.
Forum letters, isolated cases w/o revealing anything that they do not want to reveal.
Or is the logic that after the children grow up, better to kick the foreign spouse home and hopefully the low income Singaporean spouse will follow too and we are rid of two old people at the same time? -
My reply to you is, there is not enough information for 3rd parties to make a fair judgement.
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pirate:
No, I am talking about LTVP+ and PR. Not a :censored: LTVP. What's the logic? Before giving birth to Singaporean babies qualified to work in Singapore. After giving birth to Singaporean babies not qualified? I want to know the logic.
Or is the logic that after the children grow up, better to kick the foreign spouse home and hopefully the low income Singaporean spouse will follow too and we are rid of two old people at the same time?
How many cannot get PR after 5~10 years and with SC kids?
How much, how well do you know about them?
Any statistics on the no of pple w/o LTVP+ or PR after 5~10yrs?
Did they leave the country during those period? -
3Boys:
I am still waiting for 3Boys to reply to the below, i.e. isn't it true that \"majority of lower and middle and upper-middle income families are worst off with GST because they don't benefit from income tax reduction, they don't get GST rebate every year for eternity, but they get hit with GST for eternity\"?
I've have answered your question in the post above. How about you return the courtesy and answer mine here?
JannettLee:
[/quote]You bring up something very interesting and often overlooked. Now, come to think of it, who benefits from GST implementation?
It seems that the only beneficiary of GST implementation and top-tier income tax cut is the rich, since their income tax cut from 25% to 20%.
Now, you argue that the rich will pay more for GST, really? You assumed that if the rich earns $300k, they will spend $300k and pay $21k GST?
Ok, let's say the rich earn $1m a year. He saved $50k tax from income tax cut from 25% to 20%. In fact, the rich will never be able to fully spend what they earn, so let's say they only spend $240k a year on living expenses (which is already $20k per month and is quite a lot!). For $240k expenditure they now need to pay extra $16.8k for 7% GST. Now, isn't it obvious that the rich saved $50k income tax and get hit with only $16.8k GST tax and they are the biggest beneficiary?
Next you say \"govt returns GST rebates worth say $1500 (Cash/Medisave/U-Save) per eligible households (those with high value homes need not apply), then how much are they out of pocket?\". You further stated that \"If measures are put in place that the less well off are MORE THAN adequately compensated for the GST, what's the issue with having a GST?\".
Ok, then Can you tell us:
1) how many families benefited from the GST rebate?
2) Is this rebate given every year for eternity as long as GST is present?
3) What income level below which the family is eligible?
It seems that only the lowest income quintile of the people probably adequately compensated for the GST, but majority of lower and middle and upper-middle income families are worst off with GST because they don't benefit from income tax reduction, they don't get GST rebate every year for eternity, but they get hit with GST for eternity. Need I say more?JannettLee:
Think you can stop taking my words out of context.
May be you can tell us: Didn't you insist that GST implementation and top-tier income tax reduction benefits the majority of the Singaporeans? Did you or did you not? This is the most important issue I am interested, the majority, and is what I have been driving all along and is what you have refused to answer my questions directly but keep twisting and turning here and there and everywhere, real snaky! :slapshead:
[quote=\"JannettLee\"]If you insist on twisting facts and even what I said, please continue.3Boys:
You originally did say that GST costs compounds, and implied that such compounding applies broadly and generally, did you not? Or do you now recant?
You then implied there was some 'business secret' (your words, not mine), that somehow companies are able to collude via anticompetitive practices to pass on GST costs to consumers, sometimes unwarranted, therefore keeping margins high and everyone in business, did you not? If not, kindly explain if you may.
You did imply, initially explicitly, and then through your example of the UK VAT system (essential goods exemption), that the lowest income group were hardest hit by GST, did you not? Or do you now deny this?
You did then in 1 posts, first conceded that the lowest quintile were probably adequately compensated via GST rebates, and then in this last post, say you were never intending to show that the poorest did not receive back their GST and more, yes?
Did you not then agree that there is not a direct link between GST rates and cost of living, and in my example and link in a prior post? Or do you deny this and insist that there is a direct link, and have evidence to back that assertion?
Is it better to have no GST? I guess so, if the government had a magic wand and could turn water into gold.
But in lieu of magic wand, and with safeguards for the vulnerable, I can't see why GST is such a bad thing. And this, you have singularly failed to disprove. -
Manpower is our resources, and we are encouraged to be a knowledge-based economy emphasizing knowledge-based business, and you say salary become highest component of costs? Should it be the higher salary the better because that means you are doing highest knowledge-based business? Isn't that what the govt encourage us to be in? In this case, the manpower with high salary is our assets and not costs. The way you say it is mean comparing our workers with the low cost foreign workers and is very demeaning of majority of singaporeans. :roll:
pirate:
Funny. I was under the impression that you put GST as the top cause of the high cost of living in Singapore. Here it is:JannettLee:
You are funny! :? Since when did I call to scrap GST? You need not to justify why GST is implementing here and we all knew very well that GST is the crucial source of income for government. Why you keep making me to stress so many time that I welcome the white paper and supporter of PAP. GST does not affect you and me does not mean that it does not affect others. Otherwise, why are there so much complaints about the high cost of living from the ground? you meant people are making noise from nothing? :rotflmao:
But they have to recognize the causes of problem of high cost of living and solve them. If PAP continue to use your approach to brushing people off and refuse to find the root cause of the issues, they will wake up even more in 2016.
I've to recognize that you and me are not in the same frequency or rather you like defend for the sake of defending and missed all the points that I'm trying to drive.
Off to go now.JannettLee:
But, if you are really in business, you will know that businesses in Singapore will tell you that the highest components of their costs are actually:In summary, why we are in this current situation - high cost of living today?
It is the consequences of Gahman's policies all these years.
1) GST
2) Commercial & industrial properties prices and hence rental escalation
3) Transportation cost
1) Salaries and wages
2) Rent
At least you are right about the rent part. I won't argue with you over that. -
Think you have got all mixed up with median individual income and family. You should be talking about family because in a family, nowsdays both spouses work, hence median family income is about $5500 per month. However, the family has 2 kids and 2 elderly to take care of, i.e. 2 incomes but 6 persons in the family spending money all things, including basic food necessities, medicines (big costs for elderly) etc. With such a family, they probably spend >$5000 pm, or say spend $60k a year and $4200 in additional GST. However, if assuming that what you said is true and each spouse saves $1535 in income taxes and hence for a total of $3070, that means the median income family end up paying $1130 a year in additional GST taxes. while all those rebates you mention will NOT be available for eternal until the couple die, all the GST for living expenses for this couple will go into eternity, even when the couple is no longer working and no longer earning salary but still need to pay GST! So, what you said is wrong! It looks like a majority of singaporeans are worst off with GST! :roll:
Irrelevant:
I gather by the majority you mean >50%?JannettLee:
I have always been saying that GST implementation hits majority of Singaporeans hard, and the fact that GST was implemented because govt wants to concurrently reduce income tax from 25% to 20% only benefits the rich (the top few % only).
Based on my research, median income in Singapore in 2011 is approximately 2,633 per month.http://www.mom.gov.sg/statistics-publications/national-labour-market-information/publications/Pages/wages-2011-table.aspx
Based on YA 2012 individual income tax rates, a person receiving the median wage will have to pay income tax of $85 (less CPF and personal relief of $1,000). Based on tax rates in YA1994, the same individual earning 2,633 per month will have to pay income tax of $1,620. To avoid paying the income tax saved into GST ( 1620-85), he will just have to ensure that he spends less than 22,000 a year, i.e. saving around $300 (excluding CPF) per month. Please note that this is before taking into consideration GST Credits, U-Save and S&CC rebates.
Do you think your \"GST hit majority of Singaporeans hard\" statement still stand?
As for your statement of cutting income taxes benefitting only the rich, you are finally getting somewhere on my question on the purpose of GST. First of all, I would like to amend your statement to \"the rich benefited the most from a cut in income tax\", which is precisely the reason from shifting from taxes on income to consumption!!! By reducing the burden on generation of income, we are encouraging folks and corporates in Singapore to accumulate more income. At the same time, we would also like to discourage consumption, by levying a tax on consumption. The net sum effect of the policy is to encourage savings and investments, which will lead to more jobs and a vibrant economy. -
JannettLee:
Manpower is our resources, and we are encouraged to be a knowledge-based economy emphasizing knowledge-based business, and you say salary become highest component of costs? Should it be the higher salary the better because that means you are doing highest knowledge-based business? Isn't that what the govt encourage us to be in? In this case, the manpower with high salary is our assets and not costs. The way you say it is mean comparing our workers with the low cost foreign workers and is very demeaning of majority of singaporeans. :roll:
Finally, you get it. Your income is somebody else's cost. Your cost is somebody else's income. It is not possible to have a high income low cost economy, unless you bring in lots of cheap foreign labour. -
Irrelevant:
Defense spending for Singapore was at 3.7% of GDP, one of the highest in the world. Higher than Taiwan that has a direct threat from China many times its size.WeiHan:
But.....I am also in the camp who think that we have spend too much on defense in term of absolute term and also in term of percentage of GDP.
Very good - cut defence to fund healthcare. Defence spending for FY2012 is estimated to be 12.3 billion. How many % do you think we can/should cut from defence spending?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
Budget surplus was at approximately 7-10% of GDP for the last 2-3 years and even more for the last few decades.
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GC.BAL.CASH.GD.ZS
Since government tax is extracted solely from the economic activities of the citizens of Singapore (because Singapore has no natural resources so all wealth must have solely came from the economic activities and hard work of its people), shouldn't they deserve better? -
WeiHan:
Since government tax is extracted solely from the economic activities of the citizens of Singapore (because Singapore has no natural resources so all wealth must have solely came from the economic activities and hard work of its people), shouldn't they deserve better?
No. Some tax is derived from the economic activities of foreigners. Who do you think is really paying that FDW levy? Hint: not the employer.
That is not to say that I disagree that the govt can do more to make things like healthcare better and more affordable. I prefer to just say that the gov should spend more on public healthcare, without arguing this through GST or whatever tax. It is a healthcare problem, not a tax problem. -
pirate:
Actually a hell of a lot of tax and economic value is extracted from foreigners.WeiHan:
Since government tax is extracted solely from the economic activities of the citizens of Singapore (because Singapore has no natural resources so all wealth must have solely came from the economic activities and hard work of its people), shouldn't they deserve better?
No. Some tax is derived from the economic activities of foreigners. Who do you think is really paying that FDW levy? Hint: not the employer.
That is not to say that I disagree that the govt can do more to make things like healthcare better and more affordable. I prefer to just say that the gov should spend more on public healthcare, without arguing this through GST or whatever tax. It is a healthcare problem, not a tax problem.
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