Are you ready for 7 million people on tiny Singapore?

[Just relax]

3Boys:

I must say I feel a little disappointed that not more people weighed in against the ridiculous notion that our island is not defensible.

Not to worry 3Boys I think there are more than enough of us who are aware of what our country is capable of and I know from my own interactions with our chaps who have gone on peace-keeping missions around the region that our neighbours actually appreciate the seriousness by which we take the defense of Singapore.

And I seriously do not think we can afford to actually reduce our defense expenditure because the nature of the threats to Singapore are constantly evolving. The SAF is a deterrent not only as against hostile military action but also as against terrorist attacks. The SAF is a component of the Total Defence doctrine and whatever people may say, the fact is Singapore can mobilize a deterrent force despite its small size. Psychologically this is critical for a small country as well.

[3Boys]

Just relax:

3Boys:

I must say I feel a little disappointed that not more people weighed in against the ridiculous notion that our island is not defensible.

Not to worry 3Boys I think there are more than enough of us who are aware of what our country is capable of and I know from my own interactions with our chaps who have gone on peace-keeping missions around the region that our neighbours actually appreciate the seriousness by which we take the defense of Singapore.

And I seriously do not think we can afford to actually reduce our defense expenditure because the nature of the threats to Singapore are constantly evolving. The SAF is a deterrent not only as against hostile military action but also as against terrorist attacks. The SAF is a component of the Total Defence doctrine and whatever people may say, the fact is Singapore can mobilize a deterrent force despite its small size. Psychologically this is critical for a small country as well.

Thank you.

I believe the majority of Singaporean NSmen, whilst fully aware of the shortcomings of NS, ICT and various other irritations that we will complain and bitch about to each other, very few will actually believe that the armed forces, as a whole, are incapable of defending us, or will throw in the towel at the first hint of trouble.

We must not throw the baby out with the bath water.

[sleepy]

4,000 turn up at Speakers' Corner for population White Paper protest

From yahoo newsroom 3 hours ago http://sg.news.yahoo.com/huge-turnout-at-speakers--corner-for-population-white-paper-protest-101051153.html

[lim72]

It was more than 4k!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upYDD8im5W0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[3Boys]

limlim:

JannettLee:

I learnt new thing today! I didn't know that we can defense Nuclear Weapon from Russia and China. :yikes: I always thought that they don't even need to come out 一兵一卒can already 轻而易举拿下 those countries which do not have any nuclear weapon. They have Nuclear Weapon but still are not considered to have ability to project forces ? :skeptical:

So the powerful countries throw a nuke and destroy everything?

And they gained NOTHING in return but a mess of radioactive wasteland and still have to dig into the pocket for the cost of a nuclear bomb too..

Indeed. History channel has a series of shows on fall of Singapore this weekend. Bombings of downtown Singapore, Penang, people dying, British defeat. Lets see if we be so chin-chye about our defence.

[sleepy]

Just realized today's turn up at hong lim is fewer than pink dot event

http://pinkdot.sg/more-than-15000-singaporeans-at-pink-dot-2012/

[WeiHan]

sleepy:

Just realized today's turn up at hong lim is fewer than pink dot event

http://pinkdot.sg/more-than-15000-singaporeans-at-pink-dot-2012/

Pink dot is probably 15,000.

[iFirefly]

ChiefKiasu:

I know I'm beginning to sound like a broken record... but some OOT posts were embargoed since my last announcement of moderation action...

Chief.. You very busy this CNY hor.. :siam:

[Mdm Koh]

3Boys:

Mdm Koh:

I think we cannot assume that the money we spend on defense is on weapons and technology that will benefit Singapore in the event of an actual attack. First, Singapore invests a lot in intelligence. Apart from hunting down terrorists, this is also used to monitor us, Singaporeans.


Second, what's the proportion of the budget that is going into the salaries of the ministries' directors?

Until we have a rough spending breakdown from the ministries involved in defence and security, I will refrain from assuming that the billions of dollars are being used to upgrade our weapons.

http://www.questia.com/library/98854885/defending-the-lion-city-the-armed-forces-of-singapore

F-15 and Apache attack helicopter squadrons don't appear by magic, they must be bought and paid for. Landing ship tanks and submarines don't come out of the water by themselves. Docks must be built, crews trained.

I think we can safely assume a huge amount of spend goes into hardware and training. Don't take my word for it, go read the book yourself.

Knowledge is power.

I hope you are not expecting that Mindef provides a breakdown of spend, in the form you desire, or that a failure to do so results removes their right to spend. Why give away proprietary information to our rivals?

But we cannot just trust them blindly, right? Tim Huxley's book was written more than 10 years ago.

I found some recent info from early 2012 on Mindef's page regarding import of weapons, aircraft, etc.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:A7dufEraj0sJ:www.mindef.gov.sg/content/imindef/publications/pointer/journals/2012/v38n1/feature2/_jcr_content/imindefPars/0003/file.res/013-031_MAJ%2520Ooi%2520Tjin%2520Kai.pdf+&hl=en&gl=sg&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjXEsp_1dck03Qv6Aw-APiyRGL-k0vP_6W-eyFSroyUkT6obSd3gzWDLKj2bX_qwFsbwfoTRw-LXxkTQvRqdDjdhxRvmoz6iHD_lJFyhmX7bD0GRLg2jSOiirkmbuaUTJu8N7Wq&sig=AHIEtbT9xqdfa2dAYlvTldhnLqEWGwXl6g

On page 26, bottom right, the military man who wrote the article stated clearly that we need to adjust our defence policy. We cannot rely on deterrence in the long run as with development in neighbouring countries, their investments in defence will go up. We will not be able to match their spending and will not be able to effectively deter them. Hence, there is a need to shift the policy towards diplomacy.

That's what I understand from the article. By publishing the article, I assume that Mindef agrees that high expenditure on purchasing equipment to deter enemies is unsustainable. Diplomacy is more crucial.

So I wonder why we are still spending so much...

[pirate]

Often the person who does better is not smarter, quicker or stronger. He/she is just more committed. That applies to defence. It also applies to business, work and school.


We should try to remember that while we navel gaze on what level of economic growth we think is "enough", as well as what level of defence spending is "enough".