Are you ready for 7 million people on tiny Singapore?
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WeiHan:
The point of overcrowding is real. But is the approach of freeze practical?
Something isn't just right in what you said.Sun_2010:
It is naive to think that once the economy is badly impacted, all we have to do is all the foreigners to come in and all will be well.
First the business that have found more suitable countries would be in no hurry to shift to Singapore. Local SME that have gone bust because of the above + lack of workers , will take time to come back.
Second , would FWs want to come in?
Singapore has established a name of being business friendly. You lose that image , it takes time to undo the damage.
Nation building should flexible but not trial and error
We already have the largest FWs workforce in the world. Just because that we are not increasing further, we are not business friendly? I say, the G'ment should just stop the fear mongering.
When Business are already complaining that they are facing a manpower shortage now, how will they grow if there is a freeze?
Even over-populated countries like China and India are taking in FT. And their intake keeps increasing . This inspite of having a very good educated youth population.
http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/08/expats-flock-to-india-seeking-jobs-opportunity/
Can we afford to keep increasing at the same rate ?
Can we affort to freeze our FW population?
There is a price to pay for both. We have to find the balance, not just get emotional.
Fear mongering should be stopped, I definitely agree. By one and all. -
Sun_2010:
The point of overcrowding is real. But is the approach of freeze practical?
Something isn't just right in what you said.WeiHan:
[quote=\"Sun_2010\"]
It is naive to think that once the economy is badly impacted, all we have to do is all the foreigners to come in and all will be well.
First the business that have found more suitable countries would be in no hurry to shift to Singapore. Local SME that have gone bust because of the above + lack of workers , will take time to come back.
Second , would FWs want to come in?
Singapore has established a name of being business friendly. You lose that image , it takes time to undo the damage.
Nation building should flexible but not trial and error
We already have the largest FWs workforce in the world. Just because that we are not increasing further, we are not business friendly? I say, the G'ment should just stop the fear mongering.
When Business are already complaining that they are facing a manpower shortage now, how will they grow if there is a freeze?
Even over populated countries like China and India are taking in FT. Inspite of having a very good educated youth population.
Can we afford to keep increasing at the same rate ?
Can we affort to freeze our FW population?
There is a price to pay for both. We have to find the balance, not just get emotional.
Fear mongering should be stopped, I definitely agree. By one and all.[/quote]These Businesses are whiny weak businesses that only think of their own little profit growth in the expense of bigger others.
People really need to grow up. Real wealth cannot be acquired through printing money, whole sale importing of cheap workers, or whatever political-socio-economical ponzi gimmicks. It can only be acquired by real hardwork which mean real restructuring of our economy, real innovations, productivity increase etc...It is difficult...true...but creation of true wealth is/was never easy..only ponzi scheme seems like easy way out but will eventually turn around and bite back at us. -
Frontline Connects《前线开讲》: Whitepaper on Population
http://singaporemind.blogspot.sg/2013/02/frontline-connects-whitepaper-on.html
[quote]\"If there is a reduction the number of foreigners , will you accept a slowdown in the economy?\" : Vote Yes or No.
92.5% voted \"yes\" and 7.5% voted \"no\".
After the results of the poll was announced, Grace Fu did an incredible thing. She reinterpreted the question to mean : \"If there is a reduction in the growth in number of foreigners in our population , will you accept a slowdown in the economy?\" and concluded t he poll showed that most people agree with the White Paper which proposes a growth in foreign workforce smaller than that of recent years...........[/quote] -
WeiHan:
These Businesses are whiny weak businesses that only think of their own little profit growth in the expense of bigger others.
My employer very the good one. They pay good year-end bonuses and give me annual increments even though revenue and profit never grows.
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If readers of this thread are aware, I have been writing about an increase of healthcare budget from the present 3% to probably 4.5-5% of GDP. And I supported all the claims with data found in reliable sources.
What I don't understand is this AWARE proposal. They are claiming that the present gov expenditure on Healthcare is only 1.6% of GDP and they proposed it to be increased to 3.2%. If AWARE's claim is correct about 1.6% expenditure in Healthcare, then this gov really really treats its citizen badly. even with 3% expenditure, i said \"it reflects badly on how this gov treats its citizens\", what can I say with 1.6%?
http://www.aware.org.sg/2013/02/aware-calls-for-an-inclusive-budget-2013/ -
pirate:
You really think so highly of these whiny weak businesses. When the gov gave them some incentives, they probably keep the benefits and still gave their employees 0.1% pay increment.WeiHan:
These Businesses are whiny weak businesses that only think of their own little profit growth in the expense of bigger others.
My employer very the good one. They pay good year-end bonuses and give me annual increments even though revenue and profit never grows. -
WeiHan:
Oh, I see. So we have enjoyed the presence of fewer construction workers, gotten our salaries and bonuses from a more economic activity than would have been the case had the population been \"properly planned\" the last few years. Ok lor. Singaporeans should give back the last 5-10 years of their bonuses and increments.But don't forget the current strangle in infrustructure is exactly due to improperly planned population increase. Now, you are turning around to tell us that population increase will solve the problem?
All these arguments too high brow. I put it in layman terms so people can understand better. :evil: -
raysusan:
[/quote]Aiyoyo! The question is too high brow. They should have asked, \"If there is a reduction in the number of foreigners, will you accept lower pay and bonuses, and higher prices?Frontline Connects《前线开讲》: Whitepaper on Population
http://singaporemind.blogspot.sg/2013/02/frontline-connects-whitepaper-on.html
[quote]\"If there is a reduction the number of foreigners , will you accept a slowdown in the economy?\" : Vote Yes or No.
92.5% voted \"yes\" and 7.5% voted \"no\".
After the results of the poll was announced, Grace Fu did an incredible thing. She reinterpreted the question to mean : \"If there is a reduction in the growth in number of foreigners in our population , will you accept a slowdown in the economy?\" and concluded t he poll showed that most people agree with the White Paper which proposes a growth in foreign workforce smaller than that of recent years........... -
WeiHan:
Just to add.. if work can be done more efficiently and with better management, there could be increase in productivity and output w/o increase in manpower. Now, with massive import of FW, companies don't really look into better management but instead took the easy way out and just import more & more FW.
It is implicit in the WP's proposal. WP didn't propose a total reduction in FWs but a very slow increase.pirate:
Those would be very good points for discussion. Unfortunately, the WP is not saying that we should:
(1) slow down the construction of HDB flats;
(2) expand the MRT network less;
(3) stop building new hospitals;
(4) have fewer nurses in the hospitals;
(5) not increase the number of pre-school teachers;
(6) make do with fewer FDWs; or
(7) be prepared to pay more for public transport, estate cleaning, meals outside, etc.
If only they did, we could have that sort of cost/benefit discussion in a meaningful way. Who knows? It may be a better approach than the White Paper. But we are not having that discussion. I guess because the WP figured it may not go down well with voters either.
1. Construction of HDB flats won't slow down since we are not sending back foreign constrcution workers that are already here.
2. MRT network. Reasoning same as construction of HDB flats.
3. Same as the above 2 points. Why should there be a stop in new construction of hospitals just because we don't increase FWs further.
4. Why will there be fewer nurses in hospital since slowing down the increase doesn't mean sending back those that are already here.
5. Maybe hard to increase pre-school teachers but certainly it won't decrease base on the reasoning given above for other sectors.
6. Same as above
7. Same as above.
Those drive, just look around, how often you see at construction site, one person work, 2 or more person eye power? Apparent poor management of resources, isn't it? Only when companies are forced by circumstances, then they will put in effort to improve efficiency and better manage their resources. -
Sun_2010:
We can freeze the FT.. maybe not the FW.
Can we affort to freeze our FW population?
Surely the polys and Uni can churn out enough skilled workers to support the economy.. And encourage companies to employ older PMETs.
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