桃花谈
-
insider:
From the blog posts that insider quoted, my understanding is that we do not give advice based on our attitude of us being more superior than the other person. The tone of voice, real motive, words chosen (maybe also facial expressions/body language) as well as whether the conversation is held in a favourable atmosphere/condition are important factors that determine how and when to dish out advice. I think the blogger is addressing the issue of the 说教式 “preaching” way of giving advice, which is very common, especially in the Asian culture.
...insider:
适度中节
子贡问友于孔子,在《论语·颜渊》中,孔子说:“忠告而善道之,不可则止”。
孔子认为,对待朋友的错误,要坦诚布公地劝导他,推心置腹地讲明利害关系,但他坚持不听,也就作罢。
如果别人不听,你一再劝告,不但不能达到目的反而会自取其辱。
可见,与朋友相处时“忠告善导”固不可少,但也要懂得“不可则止”的道理,这也是孔子明哲保身原则在交朋友上的具体运用。
另外,孔子认为,朋友关系是一种非常亲密的关系,但是要把握好与朋友的距离。因为人性的弱点,过分亲密与接近都会造成反感。正如《论语·里仁》中,子游所讲:“事君数,斯辱矣,朋友数,斯疏矣”。
出于忠心而诲之,但忠言逆耳,若不被听从,也不可勉强行之,过于烦琐,以致“言者轻,听者厌”,求亲而反疏,落得难堪收场。
http://xxlyart.web-52.com/bbs/ShowPost.asp?ThreadID=157783&ViewMode=1
I am not into reinventing the wheels and so will do the cut and paste.
Below one more extension:
这句话真的是很有道理，“忠告而善道之，不可则止，勿自辱也”，一个人想要劝朋友如何如何，应该用什么方式呢？一般是忠告，但有时忠告的太理直气壮，不得分寸，让朋友下不来台，也会事得其反。
这些忠告的把握，记得于丹曾说，忠告良药一定苦口吗，一定要当头棒喝吗，你可以娓娓道来，这叫善道之，不见得要声色俱厉。你好好跟他说，但是不可则止，一定要知道，说得不投机就停下来，不要自取屈辱。这就是朋友之间的分寸把握。
朋友之间也不能说你揪着对方，你必须要怎么怎么样，其实在今天这个社会里，每一个人都是值得尊敬的，朋友之间的这种尊敬，好好的说出你的忠告尽你的一份责任，这就是好朋友了。所以好朋友从不做过分的事，不要对朋友的态度过分，也永远不要鼓动朋友去做过分的事情，这其实就是孔子所说的什么是好朋友，好朋友是在我们的身边永远让我们以理性远离危险的人，同时又是用一种快乐之心鼓励我们坦荡而欢乐去面对生活的人。
我觉得还有一些情况，比如一些人去忠告朋友时，是不是先想一想自己之所以出头露面、正言而谈的真正目的是什么；是不是心底坦荡站在一个公正的立场上；是不是说的话有理有节；是不是在一个恰当的时机、恰当的氛围，这些都很重要，这也叫有脸色，眼里会气。
同时，还应该再审视一下自己，确实想忠告朋友时，也要先看看自己是否有这个实力，也就是说话是不是站位置，能否得到足够的重视，这样才不会越劝越忙，越帮越乱，事得其反。不可则止，勿自辱也。这叫事可而止，知难而退。
在很多事情上，先退一步，再想办法，再选时机，只要最终的目的达成，何必急在一时，针锋相对呐？不光朋友之间，对待学生、家长是不是也要注意呢?
很多时候我们都是自以为“救世主”般的教训学生、家长，我们可能是在态度上没有注意到，归根结底是没有把学生、家长当成一个朋友，而是站在对立的立场上，体现出自己的“优越性”。回想这些年，没少“教训”人家，想想真是太无知了，还认为自己做了好事一般。所以，从现在开始，一定要控制住自己，用适当的方法劝告，如果不行，就换一种方式，切不可“一吐为快”，因为“欲速则不达”。
source:
http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_3d57ca850100vvxf.html -
ChiefKiasu:
PS. All posts relating to the above issue will be embargoed from this point onwards.
:thankyou: Chief -
You mentioned the :censored: word..
wait your post kena makan too......
type so much kena vaporised.... don't type better.
btw.. if govt announce no entrance fee..
I sure chiong there.. hey, SG's first casino okie.. must support..
edit: sahm_tan, your post kena makan liao.. -
Chief said to create another thread if we want to talk about road safety and correct driver behavior. I will create one if nobody has not.
-
limlim:
:rotflmao:You mentioned the :censored: word..
wait your post kena makan too......
type so much kena vaporised.... don't type better.
btw.. if govt announce no entrance fee..
I sure chiong there.. hey, SG's first casino okie.. must support..
edit: sahm_tan, your post kena makan liao..
It's ok lah.
I think this is my first post kena embargo. I might be wrong but this the first I know LOL. -
I’ve created one thread on road safety and correct driver behavior. Let’s chat there.
-
[deleted]
put here later evaporated.. :evil: -
ngl2010:
Chief said to create another thread if we want to talk about road safety and correct driver behavior. I will create one if nobody has not.
Mod,
perhaps should move the entire chunk (from page 88 to page 97) in this thread
to the newly created road safety thread
Road safety is off topic in this thread -
Ladies, this will be my concluding post for this thread (about life).
Other than all the western theories on human development (Maslow, Piaget, Erikson, Freud, etc, etc), I hold the below Confucius' especially close to my heart.
The below stages are what Confucius went through himself and he noted his experiences down. Therefore, it's a development journey of a 'saint' that most of us may not achieve those milestones as the ages stated. Many I observed did not pass over the 四十而不惑 stage, meaning a person can be 50 years old, 60 years old, 70 years old, etc, but he still cannot get by this stage.
I am close to 50 and I assess my current stage to be near the 耳顺. Not so much that I am more 'superior' than Confucius but I maybe able to achieve it earlier coz I am blessed with the readily available literature for my reading and deep reflecting (unlike him who needed a lot of efforts to get info during the ancient time).
So, you may want to bear the below in mind and map yourself and others as the ages pass by. I use it as one of the factors to consider what kind of advice I can dish out to others (whether this person will listen, will not listen, how much I should or should not advise, etc).
We cannot force 'growth' (in terms of wisdom and not academic intelligence), whether on our kids, family members, or friends. Each of them just have their own path to travel and as long as their 心术正, then their futures will be fine.
Continue to cultivate filial piety (but not into 愚孝）and the 'jackpot' will ring ring ring for multiplying positive points to come.
Best wishes to all!
三十立、四十不惑、五十知天命、六十耳顺、 七十从心所欲，应该怎样去做
1.三十而立，立什么
三十岁的人, 应该能依靠自己的本领独立承担起自己应承受的责任，并已经确定自己的人生目标与发展方向。简单说，三十岁的人应该能坦然地面对一切了。它可以用立身 立业 立家三个方面概括。
立身，立身就是确立自己的品格和修养，我认为它应包括：思想的修养，道德的涵养，能力的培养三个方面。自强是立身之本，别把自己的需求寄托在父母的资助上，寄托在别人的帮助上，那都是软弱的表现。立身是对每个人立足于社会最起码的要求。
立业，立业就是确立自己所从事的事业，三十的人应该有比较固定的职业了。从事每项事业都要有本领，按现代话讲就是有一技之长。立业不但是求生的手段，也是尽到社会责任所必备的。
立家，立家就是应该有了自己的家庭。至于是先立业后立家，还是先立家后立业，每个人情况不同，也不必要分哪个为先哪个在后。年轻人必须负起社会和家庭的责任，还是早些好。
2.四十而不惑，明白了什么
“四十而不惑”，到了四十岁，才不怀疑。
人到了四十岁，咀嚼了事态的冷暖，感怀了岁月的无情，往事悠悠，四十年弹指一挥间，在经历了许多疑惑、彷徨、振奋、欣喜之后，是沉思，是恍然大悟……少了激情，多了沉稳；少了冲动，多了冷静；少了烦恼，多了理智；少了放任，多了责任；少了盲从，多了自我……
四十岁的人是十分理智和清醒的，对外，他明白了社会；对内，他明白了自己；对自己，他明白了责任。四十岁的人，是人生辉煌时期，也是为社会和家庭贡献最大的时期。
3.五十而知天命，知道了什么
孔子“五十而知天命”，“天命”就是我们今天讲的因果报应，他知道了，命里有的一定有，命里没有的别强求，乐天知命，丝毫强求都没有，到五十岁明白了这个道理，一切通达了。
“天命”，上天的旨意或命令，引申开来，指必然性或命运。
到了五十岁，知道了自己的命运轨迹，不怨天；知道了自己的人生定位，不尤人；知道了自己未竟的责任，不懈怠。
五十岁的人，到了人生最成熟阶段，成功和辉煌带来快乐的同时，也时常伴有一些压力，但他们都能很坦然地面对，因为他们了解了社会，可他们更知道自己！
4.六十耳顺，看透了什么
到了六十岁，好话坏话尽管人家去说，自己都听得进去而毫不动心、生气，心里依然平静。
耳顺是能容忍“逆耳”之言，听“逆言”不觉得“逆耳”。
人到了这个岁数，不管听到什么言论，遇到什么坎坷曲折，都能做到不激动,而冷静地进行思考，使自己的情绪顺应客观环境，顺应事物规律，学会不暴躁，不气馁，不悲伤，不退缩，达到宠辱不惊，始终如一的境地。人修养的最高境界，就是能控制和把握自己。
六十岁的人看透了人生；六十岁的人看透了生命；六十岁的人看透了名利。
六十岁的人，经历了岁月的打磨，经历了曲折和挫折，留下的只是人生足迹，成就的却是自己丰富的阅历、涵养、修养。
六十岁的人，是人生中的晚秋，他的生活脚步慢了，却可以细细品味人生，欣赏人生旅途中各种景色，享受于向社会提供自己辛勤劳动后的成就感中，享受于无忧无虑的轻松生活中，享受于品味酸甜苦辣的回忆所带来一番别致感觉中，有它与众不同的风采！
5.七十从心所欲，应该怎样去做
七十从心所欲，很简单，就是顺从自己的想法，想做什么就做什么。从心所欲要顺其自然；从心所欲要随遇而安；从心所欲要不逾矩。
七十岁以后，都是追求身体健康，身体健康是保证生活质量的基本条件，要追求高生命质量，高的生命质量，才是完美的人生。七十岁以后，又是新的起点，总会有新的生活内容，也总会有新的快乐，你就会看到生命的一份希望和念想。
Source:
http://www.360doc.com/content/12/0720/19/413468_225493047.shtml
PS:
You may want to research more on this 'theory' when you are free if you want more indepth explanation. Just a great theory to know... -
Thank you once again Insider for this thread. Reading your sharing has planted some seeds of awareness in my psyche. Things I was aware of but couldn’t put my finger on. I am mulling over some seeds of thought, and whether the seeds would germinate or hibernate, I have to actively cultivate them. Thank you!
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