Integrated Programme (IP)

[ngl2010]

slmkhoo:

phtthp:

huh, only 4 in 10 end up in local uni ? Too few

Most developed countries of the world are around there: UK 42%, US 36%, Australia 39%, Canada 34% etc. A small no. do have higher proportions (see link below). I would be concerned about employability and unemployment. Even at 40%, we do hear of graduates who can't find \"graduate\" jobs, or who feel underemployed as they are doing jobs which in the past were done by non-graduates. But can a nation have mainly \"graduate\" jobs without the other types of jobs? Do we import more foreigners? And frankly, has the average intelligence of our population increased so much over the last 30-50 years? Are we as a nation willing to redefine the kinds of jobs that graduates should be expected to do?

My older girl just scraped into university, and while I am happy that she has done so, I can clearly see that 30 years ago she would not have been able to. We tell her frankly that she is highly unlikely to get what is considered a \"graduate\" job but should be prepared to do a job which in the past an A level holder would have done. And she will be competing against diploma holders who will also be applying for those jobs. I have lived in China, where there are way too many graduates (although still a low percentage) looking for non-existent \"graduate\" jobs, but unwilling to accept less because they feel that they shouldn't settle for less after 4 yrs of study. It's not a good situation.

Data (look at the 2nd column of the 2nd table - 4-yr degrees)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment#2014_OECD_data

:goodpost:

[MyPillow]

slmkhoo:

phtthp:

huh, only 4 in 10 end up in local uni ? Too few

Most developed countries of the world are around there: UK 42%, US 36%, Australia 39%, Canada 34% etc. A small no. do have higher proportions (see link below). I would be concerned about employability and unemployment. Even at 40%, we do hear of graduates who can't find \"graduate\" jobs, or who feel underemployed as they are doing jobs which in the past were done by non-graduates. But can a nation have mainly \"graduate\" jobs without the other types of jobs? Do we import more foreigners? And frankly, has the average intelligence of our population increased so much over the last 30-50 years? Are we as a nation willing to redefine the kinds of jobs that graduates should be expected to do?

My older girl just scraped into university, and while I am happy that she has done so, I can clearly see that 30 years ago she would not have been able to. We tell her frankly that she is highly unlikely to get what is considered a \"graduate\" job but should be prepared to do a job which in the past an A level holder would have done. And she will be competing against diploma holders who will also be applying for those jobs. I have lived in China, where there are way too many graduates (although still a low percentage) looking for non-existent \"graduate\" jobs, but unwilling to accept less because they feel that they shouldn't settle for less after 4 yrs of study. It's not a good situation.

Data (look at the 2nd column of the 2nd table - 4-yr degrees)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment#2014_OECD_data

Maybe OT
There are also significant % of Employers who are not keen to employ grads for non-grads job though the grad is willing to
take up to gain experiences . Personally , I faced such prob when i just grad fr local uni , more than 15ys ago... i guess such
situation is still an issue faced by new grad n Employers (doubting commitment & sincerity of fresh grads)

[ChiefKiasu]

When it comes to employability, it depends more on the existing jobs that the candidate has experienced, than the academic capability of the candidate. For fresh graduates with blank resumes, much has to do with the grades and outlook of the candidate, and recruiters are faced with greater unknowns. What if a candidate with stellar graduate grades break down under work pressures? Although unlikely, it does happen, even though it is rare. Remember that A*star scholar who went to the US and was convicted of poisoning her colleagues? It happens. What we have here is really a mechanism for churning out 98% good candidates and maybe 2% not so good ones. Our goal is to reduce the error rate as much as we can.

[sharonkhoo]

MyPillow:

Maybe OT

Yes, sorry. I thought of moving my reply, but wasn't sure where to put it and didn't want to start a new thread. If the mods can find a suitable place or want to start a new thread, please move the discussion!

To make this less OT, I think the fear of being unemployable is less of an issue for IP students who are generally at the upper end of the 40%. Maybe not every single student, but most. They are the ones who would have got into university anyway 30-50 yrs ago.

[Wanderer1231]

Thanks to the kind souls that has responded. May I enquire, if the dsa route is taken, apart from academics and cca, is it possible to try using other niche areas or talents? Thank you!

[Wanderer1231]

Also, what are the possible implications of dsa on a jc student?

[phtthp]

There is some difference, between DSA at P6 vs. DSA at Sec 4.


At Primary 6 :-
Besides the usual DSA routes, like enter via (individual Subject academic, Sports Cca, Performing Arts Cca), one can also DSA by Social Innovation, by Leadership, etc.

How to know what DSA they have ? The detailed P6 DSA Application form inside, will state, specify very clearly.

However, at Secondary 4 DSA, into an A-level Junior College, the main difference vs. P6 DSA, is that-

There is NO more specific Academic
Subject DSA , anymore. However, the DSA via Cca, still remain. In other words, one cannot DSA at Sec 4, using academic domain.

The implication is that, once DSA into a JC at end of Sec 4, you cannot change to another JC after you have signed & accepted the DSA contract, after the release of GCE O-level results.

AND

Whichever Junior College that had offered you a DSA offer, at the end of Sec 4 : must honor the contract signed between u and JC, for as long as you are able to meet or qualify for the lowest (minimum) Cut-off-point, into a JC, that is 20 points in your L1R5, according to MOE entry into JC rules.

scenario 1

suppose a JAE student scored 21 points in his (her) L1R5, which already exceeded the maximum 20 points. In this case, the DSA offer at the end of Sec 4, becomes void, invalid, nullified, useless, because JAE student failed to meet lowest 20 points, to enter an A-level JC.


scenario 2

However, in another scenario, suppose the Cut-off-point for a JC, is 10 points for A-level Science stream, and say, the DSA student had scored 12 points, in her L1R5.

In this case, because of that DSA offer at the end of Sec 4 which this student had accepted before she sat for O-level exam, even though her 12 points exceeded the Cut-off of 10 points entry, she still can enter this JC which she had DSA through, and also because her 12 points is within maximum 20 points, to enter a JC. This is an example of what implications mean, for both JC & pupil, via DSA at the end of Sec 4.

However, one thing to note is that, for this DSA student who managed to enter the JC (Science stream) eventually : whether or not, this pupil is allowed to take 4 H2 subject combination or take only (3 H2, plus one H1 subject) combination, that is another separate story (issue). Entry is one thing. Choice of subject combination, at JC1 (Year 5), is a separate issue to discuss

[Wanderer1231]

Umm…my question is directed at the scenario that an IP student attempt the dsa route into JC. But thanks for the reply!


So, you mentioned that academic dsa is no longer an option, what about other aspects, like talent in programming/writing ect? Do you know of any instances whereby competence demonstrated in those fields is taken into considerstion? Thanks!

[phtthp]

Then u must examine content of that DSA year 4 Application form : see what DSA routes, one can enter by, for that particular JC, u are interested in.


Whether apply to Sec 4 O-level candidates for DSA, will also apply to Year 4 IP candidates, although not many would expect IP students to DSA at Year 4, as people assume that IP students will naturally (automatically) graduate, from their Affliated JC.

Suppose after checking the Sec 4 DSA application, but the Form inside never mention any DSA route for "talent in coding / computer programming", nor for "creative writing essay" talent. What u can do, is drop the VP (Academic) of that particular JC u are keen In, an email. The VP will get reply u within a week, whether can proceed or not, with your talent proposed.

If the VP 's reply is "Sorry, cannot. Our Junior College only accept DSA candidates at end of Sec 4, via Sports domain only", too bad. That means got to go back to "Transfer" method, not by this "DSA" method, since it doesn’t work after trying, where this JC is concerned.

So far, I had checked only the A-level bound JC DSA Application form. None of them allow DSA at Sec 4, by individual academic Subject. But, by research projects done, Yes, have ! But, those IB-bound places like SJI / ACSI, I never check. To me, if one is strong in Maths & Science, think better to do the A-level. That’s my own opinion.

[phtthp]

Wanderer1231:

Umm...my question is directed at the scenario that an IP student attempt the dsa route into JC. But thanks for the reply!


So, you mentioned that academic dsa is no longer an option, what about other aspects, like talent in programming/writing ect? Do you know of any instances whereby competence demonstrated in those fields is taken into considerstion? Thanks!

Let's take a look at Anderson Junior College, year 4 DSA Application Form.

Besides the usual DSA routes like Cca (Sports) or Performing Arts stuff, which is common, since ex Psle time already have all these Cca stuff, AJC is also looking for talents, in other specific areas as well :-

- programming coding (bingo ! That's where your child talent lies in),

- Scientific Research projects undertaken, via Clubs. So, they are looking at the type (nature) of Research projects you have worked upon, before.

But, AJC didn't ask for Talent in \"creative writing\".

https://ajc.moe.edu.sg/admissions/direct-school-admission-dsa-1

That means, if u apply for DSA into Anderson JC via \"programming\" talent, AJC can process your Application form. But if apply via \"Creative writing\", cannot process, because AJC didn't even open up this channel, for DSA potential candidates.

At end of Year 4, several students will be applying for DSA into Polytechnic, into Junior Colleges. Can be O-level candidates, or can be IP students as well, although rare IP students, but still possible.