Integrated Programme (IP)

[emoh]

phtthp\" post_id=\"2016334\" time=\"1614656127\" user_id=\"35251:

Inside the 700 students who dropped out of IP,

should EXCLUDE those students who never sat for A-level National exam : students Not from the A-level track, like

- ACSI (IB)

- SJI (IB)

- NUS High Diploma, bypass A-level

In the past, half way through the IP programme, there were also some students who exited out of IP Secondary schools mid way, went somewhere else instead, never come back to A-level, nothing to do with A-level track anymore.

SOTA & Sports School also do IB assuming they are counted in the initial 4000 Sec 1 students in IP.

They may had not included some that comes in at Year 3 IP as well.

[Zappy]

MrsKiasu\" post_id=\"2016335\" time=\"1614657634\" user_id=\"43981:

Dont think they mention abt the numbers of drop out..

First, the 4k includes A, IB etc..Then 3300 is those taking A. Unable/not entering autonomous U is 165..if my understanding is correct..

Drop out rate is approx 6% ... data from 5 yrs ago.
So ~ 240 out of 4000/ IP batch.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/education/about-6-of-students-likely-to-not-finish-ip

[floppy]

MrsKiasu\" post_id=\"2016335\" time=\"1614657634\" user_id=\"43981:

Dont think they mention abt the numbers of drop out..

First, the 4k includes A, IB etc..Then 3300 is those taking A. Unable/not entering autonomous U is 165..if my understanding is correct..

But that would mean ACSI, SJI, MGS, SOTA and SSP totaled only 700 pupils taking IB every year.

Considering that these are some of the brightest kids, 4% not making the cut to university doesn’t bode well. It’s also a warning button for parents choosing IP to consider the suitability of the programme for the child.

[zac's mum]

Just throwing out a thought. What if the “streaming”/selection for IP program were to take place at end Sec 3 instead of end P6?


Wouldn’t that be a better predictor of A level results being able to qualify for local U?

Those that score in the top 10% based on end Sec 3 results…get to go IP (create a new name if u wish) and skip O levels.

[coast]

floppy\" post_id=\"2016339\" time=\"1614659850\" user_id=\"97579:

MrsKiasu\" post_id=\"2016335\" time=\"1614657634\" user_id=\"43981:

Dont think they mention abt the numbers of drop out..

First, the 4k includes A, IB etc..Then 3300 is those taking A. Unable/not entering autonomous U is 165..if my understanding is correct..

But that would mean ACSI, SJI, MGS, SOTA and SSP totaled only 700 pupils taking IB every year.

Considering that these are some of the brightest kids, 4% not making the cut to university doesn’t bode well. It’s also a warning button for parents choosing IP to consider the suitability of the programme for the child.

I think the 4000 includes students who DSA into IP and some (I believe minority) may not do that well in academics (PSLE and A-Levels).

There are also students who choose to \"drop out\" before A Levels even though they are doing well - eg., going overseas for studies (personal choice or family relocation).

[phtthp]

zac's mum\" post_id=\"2016340\" time=\"1614660086\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2016340 time=1614660086 user_id=53606]
Just throwing out a thought. What if the “streaming”/selection for IP program were to take place at end Sec 3 instead of end P6?

Wouldn’t that be a better predictor of A level results being able to qualify for local U?

Those that score in the top 10% based on end Sec 3 results...get to go IP (create a new name if u wish) and skip O levels.[/quote]

Currently,
there already exists a path, for end of Sec 2 students from O-level path, to join the IP track, if students desire, wish to.

End of Sec 2 is the correct timing to join IP, not wait until end of Sec 3 so long then come & join,

because

subject combination in all O-level Secondary schools in Singapore start at the end of Sec 2 final year exam, not end of Sec 3.

Besides,
having spent 2 solid years already inside the O-level track itself, tackling Total 8 to 10 subjects concurrently, by the time these Sec 2 students reach year end, they themselves are mature enough, able to know very well whether they should continue stick back to the O level track, or they are cut out for IP, can attempt a new adventure into IP. They will know for themselves, how ready they are.

Sec 2 students are different from P6 PSLE students

because

Sec 2 students are facing the actual reality placed before them, having to see how well they themselves can manage to cope with 8 to 10 subjects, with or without tuition,

unlike

P6 students tackling only 4 subjects so few, and most of the time is the parents who intervened to helped them make decision.

In fact, there are some students who actually would have benefited much more if they were to join O-level instead, but sadly, their parents kind of \"forced\" them into IP, having this wrong mindset that O-level is \"second class\" students.

[zac's mum]

Oh the reason why I suggested end Sec 3 was because that would be after 1 year of taking their specialized subject combi. So if they score well top 10% in this subject combi, can probably assume they will ace O levels and can skip it…proceed straight to JC.

[MrsKiasu]

floppy\" post_id=\"2016339\" time=\"1614659850\" user_id=\"97579:

MrsKiasu\" post_id=\"2016335\" time=\"1614657634\" user_id=\"43981:

Dont think they mention abt the numbers of drop out..

First, the 4k includes A, IB etc..Then 3300 is those taking A. Unable/not entering autonomous U is 165..if my understanding is correct..

But that would mean ACSI, SJI, MGS, SOTA and SSP totaled only 700 pupils taking IB every year.

Considering that these are some of the brightest kids, 4% not making the cut to university doesn’t bode well. It’s also a warning button for parents choosing IP to consider the suitability of the programme for the child.

And the 4% is assuming that the 700 pupils could make it to the U, if I m correct. IP standards should be higher, first time looking at the O Chemistry last night and I seriously feeling mental block!

[SG_KP1]

The 2013 PSLE cohort was ~43,000. All of the IP programmes were up and running then although I don't know if they were the same size as now? So would the starting IP cohort size be 4,300 or 4,000 or lower (compared to 2019 A Levels)?


I did not include SOTA or SSP in the totals. Based on MOE's IP page, these two schools are not included.
https://www.moe.gov.sg/secondary/courses/express/integrated-programme#integrated-programme

I also thought the ACSI/MGS/SJI implied IB figure would be lower than the total number of IB exam takers at these schools since this is only the \"IP\" student intake (and not those that joined IB later). I don't know the exact figure but was guessing ~600 across these three schools plus NUSH.

Lastly, I assumed the 3,300 excluded students that dropped to O Level classes but ultimately took A Levels 2 years later.

[Zappy]

zac's mum\" post_id=\"2016340\" time=\"1614660086\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2016340 time=1614660086 user_id=53606]
Just throwing out a thought. What if the “streaming”/selection for IP program were to take place at end Sec 3 instead of end P6?

Wouldn’t that be a better predictor of A level results being able to qualify for local U?

Those that score in the top 10% based on end Sec 3 results...get to go IP (create a new name if u wish) and skip O levels.[/quote]

The intent of IP is to allow the students to broaden their learning experience in both academic/ non-academic areas during the secondary school years. Since they don't need to take the O-levels, they theoretically have more time to do other stuff.

If only the final year is doing IP, then it kinda defeats the purpose since the first 3 years would have been spent preparing for the O-levels.

Unless the intent is to merely increase the % of \"new-IP-or-whatever-the-new-name-is\" students getting into the local U via A-levels.